Scanned wrong ticket by mistakenly

[WesternLancer]

Hi all. Thanks for all the input. And here to confirm OP who I work with, English isn’t his first language. I suggested this forum, for help with the appeal process. Perhaps I didn’t make it clear enough, to him, that he should follow the advice and not go trying to “do the right thing” by going back to speak with the inspector.

I’d like to think that despite this, he did make an honest mistake had paid his fares, with no intention at all to evade anything, except perhaps an unfair fine.

If he can be persuaded to “play the game”, then I’m happy to assist him in drafting his appeal with input from your good selves.

With that in mind, do you know what the time limit is for the next appeal based on what OP has posted so far?

Thanks for pitching in - with your help and the knowledge here on the forum I'm sure the OP can submit a decent, succinct appeal to the Penalty fare (PF). Great that the OP has your help to hand!

read the thread for the pointers people have suggested are grounds for appeal, then help the OP draft something up - and post the draft here for people to check before submitting it

Just to clarify - Has the OP made any Appeal as yet? (ie the 1st stage appeal - the process allows up to 3 stages)

With that in mind, do you know what the time limit is for the next appeal based on what OP has posted so far?

EDIT - my apols I see this is now a stage 2 Appeal as the stage 1 Appeal rejection letter is in post #4 - this states that you have 14 days from the date on that letter (10 sept) to submit stage 2 appeal - and it tells you how to do that in the letter


To be classed as an Appeal it must be done in writing (on line is possible) using the instructions that would be on the Penalty fare Paperwork given to the OP when they were originally stopped / in the letter uploaded in post #4 - or if not on that we can no doubt find it for you

so talking to railways staff at the station / contacting customer services by phone or e-mail etc or anything like that will not class as an 'Appeal' - so no real point in doing any of that as the Appeal process if formal and fairly robotic

I believe you get 21 days since the PF was issued to submit your formal appeal as per the instructions on the paperwork. This then 'stops the clock' on the time limit for the prompt payment discount whilst they consider your Appeal. the clock starts again when they issue their decision notice, then is paused again if you do a stage 2 appeal etc - AIUI

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally submit a second appeal against the penalty notice issued in relation to my travel on 3rd September. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered in full, as I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September and have obtained further corroborating evidence that the penalty was issued in error.

Twice a week I travel regularly between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston, and I consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the gate. The gate permitted entry without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had used the incorrect ticket.

Had the barrier rejected the ticket or flagged an error, I would have immediately checked my phone and scanned the correct ticket for that day. The fact that the barrier accepted a 3rd September ticket on 2nd September without issue indicates a technical fault in the gate system. This error directly contributed to the misunderstanding and subsequent penalty.

On 3rd September, I attempted to travel using my valid open return ticket dated for that day. Upon inspection, the ticket inspector informed me that the ticket had already been used the previous day. I explained the situation and presented both tickets — the unused return dated 2nd September and the used return dated 3rd September. Upon review, the inspector acknowledged the error and confirmed that the 2nd September return ticket had not been used. However, by that time, the penalty notice had already been issued.

The inspector expressed understanding and advised me to submit both tickets via the appeal portal, assuring me that the penalty would be rescinded. I followed this guidance and submitted the appeal with the relevant documentation. Regrettably, my appeal was rejected.

In support of this second appeal, I now provide the following additional evidence:

• A screenshot from the ticket inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket had not been used.
• An email from the ticketing application through which I purchased my tickets, clearly stating that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit on that date.

Furthermore, I wish to draw attention to two factual inaccuracies contained within the penalty notice:

• The notice states that the penalty was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the exit barrier of station.
• The fare applied was £25.90, which corresponds to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on National Rail’s fare finder tool: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.

Given these inaccuracies, I submit that the penalty notice is procedurally invalid. It was filled out incorrectly, both in terms of the location of issuance and the fare applied. These errors, combined with the fact that I held valid tickets for both dates and have supporting evidence, warrant the cancellation of the penalty.

I therefore respectfully request that this second appeal be reviewed with due regard to the following:

• I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.
• The ticket inspector acknowledged the mistake and advised me to appeal.
• The gate system did not alert me to the incorrect ticket scan.
• Independent evidence confirms the 2nd September ticket was not used.
• The penalty notice contains factual inaccuracies regarding both the location of issuance and the fare applied.
• The notice is therefore procedurally defective and should be withdrawn.

I trust that this matter will now be reconsidered fairly and that the penalty will be rescinded in light of the evidence provided. I remain available to supply any further documentation or clarification required.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

Is Above letter fine or is it required to amend anything? Sorry Just want it to clear in next attempt.

Hold fire on submitting this draft until people here can suggest some edits. AIUI you can't appeal on the basis that it wasn't fair you got issued with a Penalty Fare - only on the basis of their errors in issuing one - so quite a bit of this may well not really be worth including in the Appeal wording. But hopefully people can suggest what to edit out and if anything else should be added in.

 

[kevinprajapati]

d the barrier rejected the ticket or flagged an error

Thanks for pitching in - with your help and the knowledge here on the forum I'm sure the OP can submit a decent, succinct appeal to the Penalty fare (PF). Great that the OP has your help to hand!

read the thread for the pointers people have suggested are grounds for appeal, then help the OP draft something up - and post the draft here for people to check before submitting it

Just to clarify - Has the OP made any Appeal as yet? (ie the 1st stage appeal - the process allows up to 3 stages)

To be classed as an Appeal it must be done in writing (on line is possible) using the instructions that would be on the Penalty fare Paperwork given to the OP when they were originally stopped - or if not on that we can no doubt find it for you

so talking to railways staff at the station / contacting customer services by phone or e-mail etc or anything like that will not class as an 'Appeal' - so no real point in doing any of that as the Appeal process if formal and fairly robotic

I believe you get 21 days since the PF was issued to submit your formal appeal as per the instructions on the paperwork. This then 'stops the clock' on the time limit for the prompt payment discount whilst they consider your Appeal. the clock starts again when they issue their decision notice, then is paused again if you do a stage 2 appeal etc - AIUI

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==


Hold fire on submitting this draft until people here can suggest some edits. AIUI you can't appeal on the basis that it wasn't fair you got issued with a Penalty Fare - only on the basis of their errors in issuing one - so quite a bit of this may well not really be worth including in the Appeal wording. But hopefully people can suggest what to edit out and if anything else should be added in.

Thanks.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks.

see my edits to that post when I realised this was now at stage 2 appeal eg ref your deadline to send stage 2 appeal.

 

[kevinprajapati]

see my edits to that post when I realised this was now at stage 2 appeal eg ref your deadline to send stage 2 appeal.

in next 14 days I need to submit my 2nd appeal starting from 10th September, Yes I have edited my draft now. If you can check again.

 

[WesternLancer]

in next 14 days I need to submit my 2nd appeal starting from 10th September, Yes I have edited my draft now. If you can check again.

Thanks. I’m not really an expert on penalty fares so I’m hoping others who have helped on this thread can check it for you using their knowledge.

Given your deadline you can afford to wait a day or two to get the wording of your stage two appeal as good as it can be before sending it in.

 

[fandroid]

Can WMT issue a PFN for travel on an Avanti train, when Avanti is not a Penalty Fare Operator? Other than that the OP apparently travelled on a train for which his ticket was not valid, the ticket itself was valid.

 

[furlong]

Unless I missed it, please tell us exactly which train was used. What time was it scheduled to leave Euston (or arrive at Milton Keynes)?

I suggest you set out and confirm the details of all 4 journeys - out and return, both days. Exactly which trains were used and which tickets.

You have two goals here. 1) To show the PF was invalid (e.g. because you travelled on Avanti and the fare was wrong anyway). 2) To prove you had valid tickets for all 4 single journeys and do not owe any money for fares.

 

[kevinprajapati]

Unless I missed it, please tell us exactly which train was used. What time was it scheduled to leave Euston (or arrive at Milton Keynes)?

I suggest you set out and confirm the details of all 4 journeys - out and return, both days. Exactly which trains were used and which tickets.

You have two goals here. 1) To show the PF was invalid (e.g. because you travelled on Avanti and the fare was wrong anyway). 2) To prove you had valid tickets for all 4 single journeys and do not owe any money for fares.

On 2nd September I took WMT around 17:30 from euston the same train which I selected when I bought tickets

On 3rd September Avanti- train from euston around 16:45 and it was delayed around 1 hour as some track issues around bletchley.

 

[pazza98]

On 2nd September I took WMT around 17:30 from euston the same train which I selected when I bought tickets

On 3rd September Avanti- train from euston around 16:45 and it was delayed around 1 hour as some track issues around bletchley.

Could I suggest capturing the train information from here: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/simple/gb-nr:EUS/2025-09-03/1645

You still have a few more days before the 14 day limit cuts in for the data available on that site to show the delayed trains. But if you could outline which tickets you had, and which trains you took. Don’t necessarily add to the draft at this point.

Train MK to EUS, departed arrived, which ticket scanned where you were when the PFN issued. Apologies if you did already post it.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Now we know that on 3 September the OP travelled on the 1641 Avanti service from London Euston to Milton Keynes. They had a valid ticket for this service. Only it seems that the ticket had been scanned the previous day by mistake. Scanning a ticket on a date when it is not valid surely doesn't invalidate it for use on a date when it is valid!
Now there are plenty of grounds to appeal the penalty fare, the main one being that the OP held a valid ticket for the train on which they travelled. A secondary reason is that the amount of the penalty fare is incorrect. Another reason would be that the PFN stated issued "on train" when it was issued at the station. As the train arrived 31 minutes late, they may also have a delay repay claim.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm just trying to see if I can amend the OP's draft @kevinprajapati and @pazza98 if this is of help. Not my area of expertise but other posters might be able to edit further to check all the points that people are making are included and set out clearly

Hope what is below is helpful and correct - specifically there are perhaps sections that need adding for clarity or other sections that could be deleted if not necessary to include - see my italic sections below that may need clarifying and of course deleting from the final appeal wording to be submitted

Also a few things to check in case I have not understood anything about this thread correctly



Subject: Second Appeal Against Penalty Notice – Procedural Errors and Valid Ticket Evidence
Penalty Fare Appeal Ref Number: [INSERT]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally submit a second appeal against the penalty notice issued in relation to my travel on 3rd September. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered on the basis of procedural errors in the issuance of the notice and the fact that I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.

I am a regular traveller between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate permitted entry without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had scanned the incorrect ticket, which was not used for travel. - NB is this correct?, could this be written more clearly ie the ticket was scanned at barrier by mistakes but not actually used for travel because another valid ticket weas used for travel (have I understood that correctly)?

On 3rd September, I attempted to travel using my valid open return ticket for that day. Upon scanning the ticket at the barrier, it returned an error. I sought assistance from the ticket inspector, who informed me that the ticket had already been scanned used the previous day. Before I was given an opportunity to explain or understand what had occurred, the inspector proceeded to take my details and issued a Penalty Fare notice. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised I had likely used my 3rd September ticket in error on 2nd September when scanned at the gate line. I then asked the inspector to verify the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

In support of this appeal, I provide the following evidence:

• A screenshot from the inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was unused.
• An email from the ticketing application confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit.

In addition, I wish to highlight two factual inaccuracies in the penalty notice:

• The notice states that it was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the station barrier.
• The fare applied was £25.90, which corresponds to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on National Rail’s fare finder tool: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.
• The train that I had travelled on [ xxx.xx service from London Euston to YYYY] was operated by Avanti. Avanti is not a Penalty Fare issuing Train Operating Company so I do not believe a Penalty fare can be issued in connection with that travel

Further to this I am attaching copies of the valid tickets that I used for the travel in question on the date(s) concerned.

Given these errors in both the issuance location and fare calculation, and the clear evidence that I held valid tickets for both dates, I respectfully submit that the penalty fare notice is procedurally invalid and should be withdrawn and my Appeal upheld.

I remain available to provide any further documentation or clarification required.

 

[furlong]

We're still missing too much information and there remains speculation that might be wrong. It's not great to lead an appeal speculating why something "impossible" actually happened. I wouldn't bother mentioning any of the stuff about the other tickets really. (If you do, you'd need to include evidence of all 4 single journeys with tickets and trains used so they can see it was all paid for.)

An "on train" WMR PF suggests it was issued on the (implied) basis that a WMR service was used so the Avanti ticket presented was not valid.

You need to show that "on train" is false because of the time it was issued and the actual time of the train. Having done that you can then remind them that PFs can't be imposed on people who travelled on Avanti services. (Anyone got a recent photo of Euston PF notices to confirm no Avanti logo? Otherwise next time you're at Euston take a picture of one of the yellow PF notices.) Further the fare was wrong so the notice wouldn't be valid anyway. Finally the correct fare was paid, ticket had not been previously used, so no fare remains due - on the contrary in fact, Delay Repay is due - Avanti owes you money.

 

[Haywain]

Finally the correct fare was paid, ticket had not been previously used,

Aren't you making an assumption in the same way that you suggest others are doing?

Delay Repay is due - Avanti owes you money.

That may be the case but, if so, it is a completely separate matter to the Penalty Fare.

 

[kevinprajapati]

I'm just trying to see if I can amend the OP's draft @kevinprajapati and @pazza98 if this is of help. Not my area of expertise but other posters might be able to edit further to check all the points that people are making are included and set out clearly

Hope what is below is helpful and correct - specifically there are perhaps sections that need adding for clarity or other sections that could be deleted if not necessary to include - see my italic sections below that may need clarifying and of course deleting from the final appeal wording to be submitted

Also a few things to check in case I have not understood anything about this thread correctly



Subject: Second Appeal Against Penalty Notice – Procedural Errors and Valid Ticket Evidence
Penalty Fare Appeal Ref Number: [INSERT]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally submit a second appeal against the penalty notice issued in relation to my travel on 3rd September. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered on the basis of procedural errors in the issuance of the notice and the fact that I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.

I am a regular traveller between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate permitted entry without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had scanned the incorrect ticket, which was not used for travel. - NB is this correct?, could this be written more clearly ie the ticket was scanned at barrier by mistakes but not actually used for travel because another valid ticket weas used for travel (have I understood that correctly)?

On 3rd September, I attempted to travel using my valid open return ticket for that day. Upon scanning the ticket at the barrier, it returned an error. I sought assistance from the ticket inspector, who informed me that the ticket had already been scanned used the previous day. Before I was given an opportunity to explain or understand what had occurred, the inspector proceeded to take my details and issued a Penalty Fare notice. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised I had likely used my 3rd September ticket in error on 2nd September when scanned at the gate line. I then asked the inspector to verify the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

In support of this appeal, I provide the following evidence:

• A screenshot from the inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was unused.
• An email from the ticketing application confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit.

In addition, I wish to highlight two factual inaccuracies in the penalty notice:

• The notice states that it was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the station barrier.
• The fare applied was £25.90, which corresponds to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on National Rail’s fare finder tool: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.
• The train that I had travelled on [ xxx.xx service from London Euston to YYYY] was operated by Avanti. Avanti is not a Penalty Fare issuing Train Operating Company so I do not believe a Penalty fare can be issued in connection with that travel

Further to this I am attaching copies of the valid tickets that I used for the travel in question on the date(s) concerned.

Given these errors in both the issuance location and fare calculation, and the clear evidence that I held valid tickets for both dates, I respectfully submit that the penalty fare notice is procedurally invalid and should be withdrawn and my Appeal upheld.

I remain available to provide any further documentation or clarification required.

Thank you so much for this. Let me note it down and apply 2nd appeal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

I'm just trying to see if I can amend the OP's draft @kevinprajapati and @pazza98 if this is of help. Not my area of expertise but other posters might be able to edit further to check all the points that people are making are included and set out clearly

Hope what is below is helpful and correct - specifically there are perhaps sections that need adding for clarity or other sections that could be deleted if not necessary to include - see my italic sections below that may need clarifying and of course deleting from the final appeal wording to be submitted

Also a few things to check in case I have not understood anything about this thread correctly



Subject: Second Appeal Against Penalty Notice – Procedural Errors and Valid Ticket Evidence
Penalty Fare Appeal Ref Number: [INSERT]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally submit a second appeal against the penalty notice issued in relation to my travel on 3rd September. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered on the basis of procedural errors in the issuance of the notice and the fact that I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.

I am a regular traveller between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate permitted entry without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had scanned the incorrect ticket, which was not used for travel. - NB is this correct?, could this be written more clearly ie the ticket was scanned at barrier by mistakes but not actually used for travel because another valid ticket weas used for travel (have I understood that correctly)?

On 3rd September, I attempted to travel using my valid open return ticket for that day. Upon scanning the ticket at the barrier, it returned an error. I sought assistance from the ticket inspector, who informed me that the ticket had already been scanned used the previous day. Before I was given an opportunity to explain or understand what had occurred, the inspector proceeded to take my details and issued a Penalty Fare notice. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised I had likely used my 3rd September ticket in error on 2nd September when scanned at the gate line. I then asked the inspector to verify the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

In support of this appeal, I provide the following evidence:

• A screenshot from the inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was unused.
• An email from the ticketing application confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit.

In addition, I wish to highlight two factual inaccuracies in the penalty notice:

• The notice states that it was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the station barrier.
• The fare applied was £25.90, which corresponds to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on National Rail’s fare finder tool: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.
• The train that I had travelled on [ xxx.xx service from London Euston to YYYY] was operated by Avanti. Avanti is not a Penalty Fare issuing Train Operating Company so I do not believe a Penalty fare can be issued in connection with that travel

Further to this I am attaching copies of the valid tickets that I used for the travel in question on the date(s) concerned.

Given these errors in both the issuance location and fare calculation, and the clear evidence that I held valid tickets for both dates, I respectfully submit that the penalty fare notice is procedurally invalid and should be withdrawn and my Appeal upheld.

I remain available to provide any further documentation or clarification required.

Updated lines :

I regularly travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate allowed me through without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had scanned the incorrect ticket. Importantly, this ticket was not used for travel, as I travelled that day using the correct, valid ticket for 2nd September.



Revised Paragraph (Procedural Focus):

On 3rd September, I presented my valid open return ticket at the barrier, but it triggered an error message. A ticket inspector informed me that the ticket had already been scanned the previous day. Without being given the opportunity to clarify or understand the situation, my details were taken and a Penalty Fare notice was issued. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised the ticket dated 3rd September had likely been scanned in error on 2nd September at the gate line. I then requested the inspector to check the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

@WesternLancer
what would be xxx & YYYY in below

• The train that I had travelled on [ xxx.xx service from London Euston to YYYY] was operated by Avanti. Avanti is not a Penalty Fare issuing Train Operating Company so I do not believe a Penalty fare can be issued in connection with that travel

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally submit a second appeal against the Penalty Fare Notice issued in connection with my journey on 3rd September 2025. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered on the grounds of procedural errors in the issuance of the notice and the fact that I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.

I am a regular traveller between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate permitted exit without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had scanned the incorrect ticket. Crucially, this ticket was not used for travel, as I travelled that day using the correct, valid ticket for 2nd September.

On 3rd September, I presented my valid open return ticket at the barrier, which returned an error. A ticket inspector informed me that the ticket had already been scanned the previous day. Before I was given the opportunity to clarify or understand the situation, my details were taken and a Penalty Fare Notice was issued. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised the 3rd September ticket had likely been scanned in error on 2nd September. I then requested the inspector to verify the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

In support of this appeal, I am providing the following evidence:

• A screenshot from the inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was unused.
• An email from the ticketing application confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit.

Additionally, I wish to highlight the following factual inaccuracies in the Penalty Fare Notice:

• The notice states that it was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the station barrier.
• The fare applied was £25.90, corresponding to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on the National Rail fare finder tool (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk) and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.
• The train I travelled on on 3rd September 2025, from London Euston to Milton Keynes Central, was operated by Avanti. As Avanti is not a Penalty Fare issuing Train Operating Company, I do not believe a Penalty Fare could be validly issued in connection with that journey.

I am also attaching copies of the valid tickets used for travel on both dates in question.

Given the procedural inconsistencies and the clear evidence that I held valid tickets for both journeys, I respectfully submit that the Penalty Fare Notice is invalid and request that my appeal be upheld and the notice withdrawn.

I remain available to provide any further documentation or clarification required.

 

[pazza98]

Looking good, I forget when the deadline is now. In answer to the question to @WesternLancer I think the answer is

xxx.xx is the departure time of the train, and YYYY the destination station, for example, I often take the 19.40 service from London Euston the Birmingham New Street, coincidentally also operated by Avanti West Coast.

If you haven’t yet submitted your appeal, I personally would also be asking for the scan data from each station for the data showing which barriers you passed through and which tickets were scanners in what order as well as the data relating to where and when the ticket penalty fare notice was issued if the don’t accept your appeal for evidence on your next appeal. Good luck

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Sep 2025 ==

Looking good, I forget when the deadline is now. In answer to the question to @WesternLancer I think the answer is

xxx.xx is the departure time of the train, and YYYY the destination station, for example, I often take the 19.40 service from London Euston the Birmingham New Street, coincidentally also operated by Avanti West Coast.

If you haven’t yet submitted your appeal, I personally would also be asking for the scan data from each station for the data showing which barriers you passed through and which tickets were scanners in what order as well as the data relating to where and when the ticket penalty fare notice was issued if the don’t accept your appeal for evidence on your next appeal. Good luck

Good news. OP, called up, I’m not quite sure who, LNW, I think. Did they issue the PFN?

Anyway, this was after the second appeal was rejected, and they’ve said the PFN has been cancelled. This wasn’t at the last check reflected online, but what I’ve been told was that they apparently hadn’t checked the ticket evidence etc OP had attached to his appeals and on reviewing this they’ve apparently agreed to cancel the PFN.

Thanks all for the input and advice, OP very happy with this result, and had almost caved! He was ready to pay up to be done with the stress.

 

[WesternLancer]

Looking good, I forget when the deadline is now. In answer to the question to @WesternLancer I think the answer is

xxx.xx is the departure time of the train, and YYYY the destination station, for example, I often take the 19.40 service from London Euston the Birmingham New Street, coincidentally also operated by Avanti West Coast.

If you haven’t yet submitted your appeal, I personally would also be asking for the scan data from each station for the data showing which barriers you passed through and which tickets were scanners in what order as well as the data relating to where and when the ticket penalty fare notice was issued if the don’t accept your appeal for evidence on your next appeal. Good luck

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Sep 2025 ==


Good news. OP, called up, I’m not quite sure who, LNW, I think. Did they issue the PFN?

Anyway, this was after the second appeal was rejected, and they’ve said the PFN has been cancelled. This wasn’t at the last check reflected online, but what I’ve been told was that they apparently hadn’t checked the ticket evidence etc OP had attached to his appeals and on reviewing this they’ve apparently agreed to cancel the PFN.

Thanks all for the input and advice, OP very happy with this result, and had almost caved! He was ready to pay up to be done with the stress.

Sounds promising update. I’d be trying to obtain confirmation of this in writing somehow however.

Not sure where you would go to get the written confirmation but maybe someone can advise.

The potential problem being a written appeal decision at stage two saying you have to pay (ie appeal rejected) I assume vs a verbal message saying you do not have to pay, but presumably no way to prove that without a letter stating it.