Scanned wrong ticket by mistakenly

[kevinprajapati]

Hi,
I was travelling from Milton Keynes Central to Euston and return back. I always buy ticket in advanced.
On 2nd September I accidently scanned 3rd September return ticket and (Gate gets open without any issues - it didnt give me any error - So I don't know if I have scanned wrong ticket). On 3rd September I have open ticket and ticket inspector said this ticket is already used yesterday. I said but I do have valid ticket and then on checking yesterday's (2nd September) ticket she said that yes this (2nd September) return ticket not used but by the time she already printed penalty. Ticket inspector realise that I have both ticket and she said sorry and said go to appeal page upload both valid ticket and give reason they will remove it but my panelty got rejected.
Please assist me to apply for 2nd appeal. Thank you.

 

[Watershed]

Please can you upload a copy of any penalty or paperwork you received? Please redact any name, address or reference numbers.

Just to clarify, what tickets did you buy for 2nd and 3rd September? Can you upload a copy of them (with the barcode and reference numbers redacted)?

 

[island]

Where exactly were you when the penalty fare was issued? Which station? Inside or outside the ticket gates?

 

[kevinprajapati]

Please can you upload a copy of any penalty or paperwork you received? Please redact any name, address or reference numbers.

Just to clarify, what tickets did you buy for 2nd and 3rd September? Can you upload a copy of them (with the barcode and reference numbers redacted)?

Hi Thank you for update, here's my both return ticket and panelty

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

Where exactly were you when the penalty fare was issued? Which station? Inside or outside the ticket gates?

Milton keynes central while going out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

This is declined 1st appeal

 

[signed]

Did your PF get issued at the gate at MKC or on train?

If it is on a train, your 3rd September ticket wasn't valid to use a LNR/WMT train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did your PF get issued at the gate at MKC or on train?

If it is on a train, your 3rd September ticket wasn't valid to use a LNR/WMT train.

The obscured section of the PF appears to say "on train".

 

[Watershed]

From what I can make out, the Penalty Fare was issued at 18:00 - is that right? If so, that straight away tells us that it was issued wrongly and you have grounds for appeal.

They have charged you the £50/100 penalty, plus £25.90 for the fare (i.e. the Anytime Day Single). However, they are supposed to charge the "the full single fare applicable" based on the time of day you're travelling. An Off-Peak Day Single costing £24.20 would have been valid at 18:00 - it doesn't have any evening restrictions. Therefore, you should only have been charged £50/100 plus £24.20 - i.e. £1.70 less.

It might seem a small difference, but train companies are obliged to follow the Penalty Fares Regulations exactly - and in this case they appear not to have done so. If you can clarify the further details that others have requested, we can see whether there are any other grounds for appeal.

Just to clarify, did you take an Avanti train? Or did you take an LNR/WMT train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just to clarify, did you take an Avanti train? Or did you take an LNR/WMT train?

Avanti are not a Penalty Fares TOC (they would have either charged an Anytime Day Single or written up for prosecution), so if issued on board (as the PF slip seems to imply) it would definitely have been WMT. Thus the likely situation would be the PF having been issued because the ticket wasn't valid on the train used, not because it had been scanned already by mistake. (I've erroneously scanned the wrong ticket before and nothing has ever been said about it, though I'd not expect a ticket for the wrong date to open a gateline!).

Thus we are down to the technicality you note as the possible means of appeal.

 

[signed]

they would have either charged an Anytime Day Single or written up for prosecution

Pointless here but aren't Avanti a UFN TOC?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pointless here but aren't Avanti a UFN TOC?

A UFN is issued if a fare is due and the passenger is unable to pay it on the spot, and are not felt to be evading or otherwise being dishonest. It's just an invoice for what would in this case be the Anytime Day Single fare.

Either way a Penalty Fare would not under any circumstances be issued on board an Avanti train.

 

[JBuchananGB]

It seems certain that the PFN was issued on West Midlands Train because the ticket was valid only on an Avanti train.
That would be a good reason to issue a Penalty Fare.
Nothing to do with having been scanned in error the previous day. It wouldn't have been valid the previous day!
However the text of the letter from AS Regus does talk about the date of validity of the ticket.
Watershed has spotted a possible reason for appeal, that the penalty fare charged is wrong.
This the line to take now. By the way the OP's name is still visible on the AS Regus letter. Should be taken down and redacted.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On 2nd September I accidently scanned 3rd September return ticket and (Gate gets open without any issues - it didnt give me any error - So I don't know if I have scanned wrong ticket).

On 3rd September I have open ticket and ticket inspector said this ticket is already used yesterday. I said but I do have valid ticket and then on checking yesterday's (2nd September) ticket she said that yes this (2nd September) return ticket not used but by the time she already printed penalty.

The 3rd September e-ticket depicted in post #4 is a single, isn't it? Notwithstanding, how exactly does this ticket, which is ostensibly only ever valid on 3rd September, work the barriers a day earlier?!

 

[Haywain]

Pointless here but aren't Avanti a UFN TOC?

Any TOC can issue a UFN regardless of whether they have a Penalty Fare scheme. SWR are an example of a TOC who issue both PFNs and UFNs.

 

[kevinprajapati]

Did your PF get issued at the gate at MKC or on train?

If it is on a train, your 3rd September ticket wasn't valid to use a LNR/WMT train.

While going out not on train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

The 3rd September e-ticket depicted in post #4 is a single, isn't it? Notwithstanding, how exactly does this ticket, which is ostensibly only ever valid on 3rd September, work the barriers a day earlier?!

Yes, 3rd September ticket open up on 2nd September barrier; if it would give error I would scan with correct ticket.


Here I posted only both eturn ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

While going out not on train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==


Yes, 3rd September ticket open up on 2nd September barrier; if it would give error I would scan with correct ticket.


Here I posted only both eturn ticket.

*Return tickets

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

Please can you upload a copy of any penalty or paperwork you received? Please redact any name, address or reference numbers.

Just to clarify, what tickets did you buy for 2nd and 3rd September? Can you upload a copy of them (with the barcode and reference numbers redacted)?

Thanks sir, uploaded.

 

[JBuchananGB]

If the PFN was issued at the exit barrier at Milton Keynes, not actually on a train, then this opens up another reason for an appeal, because the Notice itself says it was issued "On train". Now there are two irregularities, the wrong fare, and the incorrect description of where issued.

 

[kevinprajapati]

Ah I see, I will get back to inspector and asked them as this was the issue I got while going out from barrier not on train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah I see, I will get back to inspector and asked them as this was the issue I got while going out from barrier not on train.

Did you use an Avanti train or a WMT one?

 

[signed]

Ah I see, I will get back to inspector and asked them as this was the issue I got while going out from barrier not on train.

Don't contact them yet until you drafted your appeal letter here

 

[kevinprajapati]

Don't contact them yet until you drafted your appeal letter here

Yes I just talked to lady and they will get in touch with manager and change 'issued- on train' to issues at station'

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

Did you use an Avanti train or a WMT one?

I used the correct train both days it just my 3rd September ticket been scanned on 2nd September

On 3rd it showed as used ticket

 

[signed]

Yes I just talked to lady and they will get in touch with manager and change 'issued- on train' to issues at station'

What? I will let other weigh in, but I doubt that is even possible

As an aside, you really shouldn't have done that

 

[kevinprajapati]

On my panelty it mentioned that issues on train which is wrong

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

From what I can make out, the Penalty Fare was issued at 18:00 - is that right? If so, that straight away tells us that it was issued wrongly and you have grounds for appeal.

They have charged you the £50/100 penalty, plus £25.90 for the fare (i.e. the Anytime Day Single). However, they are supposed to charge the "the full single fare applicable" based on the time of day you're travelling. An Off-Peak Day Single costing £24.20 would have been valid at 18:00 - it doesn't have any evening restrictions. Therefore, you should only have been charged £50/100 plus £24.20 - i.e. £1.70 less.

It might seem a small difference, but train companies are obliged to follow the Penalty Fares Regulations exactly - and in this case they appear not to have done so. If you can clarify the further details that others have requested, we can see whether there are any other grounds for appeal.

Just to clarify, did you take an Avanti train? Or did you take an LNR/WMT train?

On 2nd September I used LNR/WMT

& on 3rd Avanti

 

[Haywain]

Yes I just talked to lady and they will get in touch with manager and change 'issued- on train' to issues at station'

For goodness sake, this is a penalty fare and asking them to correct an error is not helping your chances of a successful appeal - it could even encourage them to cancel the Penalty Fare and take things down the criminal prosecution route. When people here say not to contact the train cpompany there are very good reasons for that and it isn't in your interests to do differently.

 

[kevinprajapati]

Don't contact them yet until you drafted your appeal letter here

Can you please help me to prepare draft ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

For goodness sake, this is a penalty fare and asking them to correct an error is not helping your chances of a successful appeal - it could even encourage them to cancel the Penalty Fare and take things down the criminal prosecution route. When people here say not to contact the train cpompany there are very good reasons for that and it isn't in your interests to do differently.

To be fair I'd be astonished if this succeeded in Court if the Magistrate was paying any attention - the ticket was clearly not *actually* used because it couldn't have been because it was not valid on the day it was first scanned. The other ticket is clearly the one actually used for the journey - which would be even more confirmed by the correct one presumably having an entry scan at the origin?

 

[Haywain]

To be fair I'd be astonished if this succeeded in Court if the Magistrate was paying any attention - the ticket was clearly not *actually* used because it couldn't have been because it was not valid on the day it was first scanned. The other ticket is clearly the one actually used for the journey - which would be even more confirmed by the correct one presumably having an entry scan at the origin?

That's not really the point, is it?

 

[Spaceship323]

Can you please help me to prepare draft ?

The forum experts won't draft a letter for you (it needs to be your own words), but you will get assistance with your draft if you post it on here.
You will have a maximum of 3 appeals and each one stops the clock so even if you lose the final appeal you will still get the 50% discount for early payment.
Just say in your appeal that the penalty is invalid because it's filled out incorrectly - it states issued on train, when in fact it was issued at the barrier, you could also mention that the fare on the notice is incorrect, but the first reason should be enough to get the penalty cancelled

 

[WesternLancer]

The forum experts won't draft a letter for you (it needs to be your own words), but you will get assistance with your draft if you post it on here.
You will have a maximum of 3 appeals and each one stops the clock so even if you lose the final appeal you will still get the 50% discount for early payment.
Just say in your appeal that the penalty is invalid because it's filled out incorrectly - it states issued on train, when in fact it was issued at the barrier, you could also mention that the fare on the notice is incorrect, but the first reason should be enough to get the penalty cancelled

I think this is a difficult one for the OP - I suspect English is not their first language and they are clearly unfamiliar with their rights as a passenger, how the UK rail system and ticketing works etc. I mean this with no disrespect to the OP.

i do think in this case it might be very helpful for someone to post a clear message outlining / summarising the content in bullet points that the OP might best submit in their Appeal wording.

I think this would be extremely helpful to the OP in terms of translating the comments made here into something the OP can submit as an Appeal.

 

[kevinprajapati]

The forum experts won't draft a letter for you (it needs to be your own words), but you will get assistance with your draft if you post it on here.
You will have a maximum of 3 appeals and each one stops the clock so even if you lose the final appeal you will still get the 50% discount for early payment.
Just say in your appeal that the penalty is invalid because it's filled out incorrectly - it states issued on train, when in fact it was issued at the barrier, you could also mention that the fare on the notice is incorrect, but the first reason should be enough to get the penalty cancelled

Alright let me get it draft and pass it across.

 

[pazza98]

I think this is a difficult one for the OP - I suspect English is not their first language and they are clearly unfamiliar with their rights as a passenger, how the UK rail system and ticketing works etc. I mean this with no disrespect to the OP.

Hi all. Thanks for all the input. And here to confirm OP who I work with, English isn’t his first language. I suggested this forum, for help with the appeal process. Perhaps I didn’t make it clear enough, to him, that he should follow the advice and not go trying to “do the right thing” by going back to speak with the inspector.

I’d like to think that despite this, he did make an honest mistake had paid his fares, with no intention at all to evade anything, except perhaps an unfair fine.

If he can be persuaded to “play the game”, then I’m happy to assist him in drafting his appeal with input from your good selves.

With that in mind, do you know what the time limit is for the next appeal based on what OP has posted so far?

 

[kevinprajapati]

The forum experts won't draft a letter for you (it needs to be your own words), but you will get assistance with your draft if you post it on here.
You will have a maximum of 3 appeals and each one stops the clock so even if you lose the final appeal you will still get the 50% discount for early payment.
Just say in your appeal that the penalty is invalid because it's filled out incorrectly - it states issued on train, when in fact it was issued at the barrier, you could also mention that the fare on the notice is incorrect, but the first reason should be enough to get the penalty cancelled

Subject: Second Appeal Against Penalty Notice – Procedural Errors and Valid Ticket Evidence

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally submit a second appeal against the penalty notice issued in relation to my travel on 3rd September. I respectfully request that this matter be reconsidered on the basis of procedural errors in the issuance of the notice and the fact that I held valid tickets for both 2nd and 3rd September.

I am a regular traveller between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston and consistently purchase my tickets in advance. On 2nd September, I mistakenly scanned my return ticket dated 3rd September at the exit barrier. The gate permitted entry without any alert or warning, and I was unaware that I had used the incorrect ticket.

On 3rd September, I attempted to travel using my valid open return ticket for that day. Upon scanning the ticket at the barrier, it returned an error. I sought assistance from the ticket inspector, who informed me that the ticket had already been used the previous day. Before I was given an opportunity to explain or understand what had occurred, the inspector proceeded to take my details and issued a penalty notice. It was only after receiving the notice that I realised I had likely used my 3rd September ticket in error on 2nd September. I then asked the inspector to verify the status of my 2nd September ticket, and she confirmed that it had not been used for exit on that date.

In support of this appeal, I provide the following evidence:

• A screenshot from the inspector’s device confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was unused.
• An email from the ticketing application confirming that the 2nd September return ticket was not scanned or used for exit.

In addition, I wish to highlight two factual inaccuracies in the penalty notice:

• The notice states that it was issued “on train,” whereas it was in fact issued at the station barrier.
• The fare applied was £25.90, which corresponds to the full Anytime Day Single fare. However, the correct Off-Peak Day Single fare applicable to my journey was £24.20. This fare is publicly listed on National Rail’s fare finder tool: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk and can be verified by searching the route between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.

Given these errors in both the issuance location and fare calculation, and the clear evidence that I held valid tickets for both dates, I respectfully submit that the penalty notice is procedurally invalid and should be withdrawn.

I remain available to provide any further documentation or clarification required.