SBB plans to buy High-Speed trains

[TheWierdOne]

I don't get this desire from certain posters for SBB to predetermine a particular outcome. Stadler doesn't need protection and doesn't have the product line, and Switzerland takes procurement integrity seriously. Of the remaining suppliers, what's in it for SBB to favour one over any other? Or are posters simply projecting their own personal preferences?

I wasn’t projecting at all, given that I live in the UK and have ridden Swiss trains exactly twice in my life I couldn’t give two hoots who they buy from. I was more asking about Swiss procurement rules, as one does.

 

[Roast Veg]

Talgo coaches with different (better) end cars, like a return to something out of Alstom Kassel, would both be low floor and fairly easy to approve everywhere except for the channel tunnel.

Awful passenger experience though.

Oops - Alstom Kassel is closing.

 

[James James]

Okay, so Stadler probably won't take much interest in building at least a 300km/h train given they already found much of their niche in the regional and short classical intercity market.

Stadler have explicitly stated that they are interested in bidding.

But IMHO any manufacturer that doesn't already have unrestricted certification for France will be at a disadvantage, because obtaining French approvals can be rather tricky.

That’s like walking on thin ice, both legally and economically. In this case, I don’t see any reason at all to even attempt something like that. It will be a new vehicle in the fleet, so there’s no need to take existing vehicles into account. Such customized requirement profiles also lead to higher costs. Of course, the manufacturer also realizes that it can charge a “monopoly premium” here.

It's highly unlikely that they'll ask for this, but they could in theory ask for the new vehicles to be compatible with the Giruno fleet - this would allow for splitting services where only one half of the train needs to be 300/320 capable (e.g. for some routes in Italy or Germany).

 

[bahnause]

It's highly unlikely that they'll ask for this, but they could in theory ask for the new vehicles to be compatible with the Giruno fleet - this would allow for splitting services where only one half of the train needs to be 300/320 capable (e.g. for some routes in Italy or Germany).

SBB may require that new trains be compatible with older models. However, it must be able to justify this requirement in a factual and objective manner. In this case, it must disclose the relevant technical interfaces to all interested manufacturers.

 

[Sorcerer]

Stadler have explicitly stated that they are interested in bidding.

But IMHO any manufacturer that doesn't already have unrestricted certification for France will be at a disadvantage, because obtaining French approvals can be rather tricky.

Interesting. I definitely think Stadler could reasonably create a 300/320km/h capable model building on the SMILE/Giruno platform in the same way that was built on the FLIRTs. But as highlighted, SBB aren't totally free to choose the builder, so we'll have to wait and see who bids and who is tendered.

 

[James James]

SBB may require that new trains be compatible with older models. However, it must be able to justify this requirement in a factual and objective manner. In this case, it must disclose the relevant technical interfaces to all interested manufacturers.

The law does allow for direct awards (bypassing the usual tendering process), and if it's a proprietary interface they'd have a strong argument for doing precisely that. It would be very questionable in this case, certainly, and they'd be putting themselves at significant legal risk, but there could nevertheless be scenarios where this would be a reasonable approach. (This was the case for the Mouette trains for example.)

 

[mountainpixel]

This was the case for the Mouette trains for example.

Whose procurement was "allegedly" the most corrupt one in the last couple years.

In short these trains have been bought just to bolster someones CV (opinion). And now the Mouette are useless trains without any sensible route to operate on.

 

[Gordon]

And now the Mouette are useless trains without any sensible route to operate on.

They are far from useless. They very successfully operate in multiple on the IR 36 Basel SBB - Zurich Flughafen via Bozberg route, and they are up to date and comfortable to ride in.

 

[mountainpixel]

They are far from useless. They very successfully operate in multiple on the IR 36 Basel SBB - Zurich Flughafen via Bozberg route, and they are up to date and comfortable to ride in.

Yes, they are trains that can do train things. Does not make them a sensible purchase though.

Running a multiple of 3 Flirts on a route where a single Kiss would also work is a waste of resources.

This train was bought in a pinch for without any regards for efficient operations for a use case that never existed.

 

[bahnause]

Their use on the Bözberg was only temporary. They weren’t suitable for peak hours because there weren’t enough seats, and adding additional units wasn’t possible due to their length. They’re also of little use as extra trains on the Basel S-Bahn because there aren’t enough seats or doors. So what’s left are one-off units that aren’t really usable flexibly due to restrictions of tracion knowledge and maintenance. And you can tell. Nobody really wants them.