Sat nav for train drivers

[O L Leigh]

Remember also speed based signalling is the future so route knowledge will be less important.

No. Route knowledge will always be important, no matter what aids drivers have available to them.

O L Leigh

 

[Zoe]

No. Route knowledge will always be important, no matter what aids drivers have available to them.

So in mainland Europe a driver is given an indication of the route before a junction then and not just a speed?

 

[starrymarkb]

So in mainland Europe a driver is given an indication of the route before a junction then and not just a speed?

They can be. Certainly there is an indication to drivers that will be taking the LGV Nord on the outskirts of Paris

 

[O L Leigh]

I would imagine so, yes.

But then maybe they work to different standards. I would imagine that you, as a passenger, would want to know that the crew have a good idea where they are at all times, could quickly identify a location should they need to (e.g. for the emergency services) and know where it would be safe to stop the train in the event of an emergency. And that's not counting route risks and characteristics of the line that ensure a train is safely worked.

O L Leigh

 

[Scotty]

I'd be very worried - the stories you hear about HGV drivers getting stuck down narrow country lanes, or setting-out for Gibralter and ending-up at the end of East Yorkshire at Gibralter Point!

By East Yorkshire, do you mean Lincolnshire??

 

[Welshman]

Whoops!
Yes, I do.
Thank you.

 

[driver9000]

Mainland Europe still uses traditional fixed signals for many of it's 'classic' lines. In cab speed indications are used on high speed lines where TVM430 is used, although stopping points are marked on the lineside by a 'Repere' so knowledge of the route is still vital as you need to know where these are. Some countries such as Switzerland use a speed based signalling for junctions which depending on the indication dictates the maximum speed. These signals still carry a Danger indication for trains to stop. Like others have said route knowledge is vital and will remain so.

One potential issue is that a train is running with the driver working the train to Sat-nav instructions and the gadget fails leaving the driver with no idea where he/she is. Signalmen might not be able to help as their panels are not geographically accurate to the actual features of the line and they might have never been to the location concerned.

 

[Metroland]

This seems completely pointless, drivers have extensive route knowledge and don't have control over the route their train will take.

Not really, if you can save route learning time, provide more information, pinpoint engineering works and speed restrictions and so on, it has obvious benefits.
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Drivers do have control of the route their train will take, that is the point of route knowledge, to stop a signaller wrong routing them

We used to have a saying about drivers, give them a green over a cliff and most of them would take it
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Remember also speed based signalling is the future so route knowledge will be less important.

In fact the future is no lineside signals, and all information in the cab. If this is true, it could be a potential stage 1 of that process.

 

[RPM]

I don't see any reason for needing sat nav but some sort of PDA device loaded with route maps, sectional appendix, traction manuals, fault finding charts and rule books would be really useful. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger TOCs do this already but we are still paper-based at Chiltern!

 

[1V53]

Not really, if you can save route learning time, provide more information, pinpoint engineering works and speed restrictions and so on, it has obvious benefits.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


We used to have a saying about drivers, give them a green over a cliff and most of them would take it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In fact the future is no lineside signals, and all information in the cab. If this is true, it could be a potential stage 1 of that process.

So what happens when the electronic system fails?

ERTMS is coming in on the Cambrian. All that does is augment route knowledge, not replace it.

 

[Minilad]

I don't see any reason for needing sat nav but some sort of PDA device loaded with route maps, sectional appendix, traction manuals, fault finding charts and rule books would be really useful. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger TOCs do this already but we are still paper-based at Chiltern!

This has been talked about on XC for ages but nothing ever seems to come of it.
TMS was intended to carry a lot of information but has never been used to its full potential

 

[GB]

We were all issued last year a Netbook containing electronic versions of the SA, rule book, route maps, emergency plans, ballast notices, general operating notices, pink pages and white pages etc etc.

unfortunately, while its a good idea, its only as good as the hardware it comes on and that is ****e!

 

[cyclebytrain]

The most plausible kernel of truth behind this rumour seems to me to be that Garmin are thinking of supplying ERTMS equipment. I can see how after a game of Chinese whispers that could become Garmin to supply train satnav -it could be quite a good fit with some of their other business

 

[starrymarkb]

The most plausible kernel of truth behind this rumour seems to me to be that Garmin are thinking of supplying ERTMS equipment. I can see how after a game of Chinese whispers that could become Garmin to supply train satnav -it could be quite a good fit with some of their other business

Good point - they already provide instruments for light aircraft and business jets

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=153&pID=66916