SailRail confusion

[phil8715]

To be honest the whole Rail and Sale deal is a complete shambles. I regularly used the Rail and Sail deal from Blackburn to Belfast via Preston and Glasgow Central to Stranraer. Now with Stena deciding to move their entire operation To Cainryan it doesn't make travelling by train any easier.

I was on their official Facebook site and the coach connection from Ayr won't take dogs or disabled passengers in wheelchairs.

What a shambles.

It looks like Stena have alienated the Rail Sail and foot passengers for cars.

Well done Stena another own goal.

This time I flew with Easyjet and it cost less.


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[harz99]

To be honest the whole Rail and Sale deal is a complete shambles.


What a shambles.

It looks like Stena have alienated the Rail Sail and foot passengers for cars.

Well done Stena another own goal.

As I've said elsewhere, Stena are not interested in foot pax, and haven't been for some time. The move to Port Ryan has made it not worth the effort for the area's non drivers to go to NI for the day. Stena's profit comes from the vehicular trade not foot passengers.

 

[4SRKT]

It looks like Stena have alienated the Rail Sail and foot passengers for cars.

Well done Stena another own goal.

This time I flew with Easyjet and it cost less.


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It might not cost less next time though. This is/was the beauty of Rail & Sail: you always knew what it would cost.

The connections at Stranraer have been bobbins for years though: moving to Cairnryan has certainly made it worse, but it is a degradation of an already pants service. Not so Holyhead, where the connections are better, but the move to advances has introduced a level of instability for people travelling from a large portion of the country (i.e. the North of England), and I suspect an area from which a large proportion of Ireland-bound foot passengers are traditionally drawn.

 

[phil8715]

I live in East Lancashire and Holyhead would be the nearest port. However not easy to get to Northern Ireland. It mean going on this route:
Blackburn to Preston, Preston to either Warrington or Crewe then a train from Warrington or Crewe to Holyhead, HSS from Holyhead to Dublin Bay or Dun Laigrie, Dart to Connolly Street for the Enterprise to Belfast Central then a train from Belfast Central to Ballymoney for a lift to my parents house.


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[4SRKT]

I live in East Lancashire and Holyhead would be the nearest port. However not easy to get to Northern Ireland. It mean going on this route:
Blackburn to Preston, Preston to either Warrington or Crewe then a train from Warrington or Crewe to Holyhead, HSS from Holyhead to Dublin Bay or Dun Laigrie, Dart to Connolly Street for the Enterprise to Belfast Central then a train from Belfast Central to Ballymoney for a lift to my parents house.


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I've used the Holyhead overnight a few times to get to Belfast, then the 07:35 northbound Enterprise. Not ideal though, I grant you. There is a free bus from Dublin Port to Connolly, so there's no messing about with walking and DARTs.

 

[NJTom]

Since the end of intra-EU duty free in 2000, there is very little value in foot passengers now, and I'm sure both Stena and Irish ferries are concentrating on car and freight traffic now, especially Stena who are reducing/eliminating non-summer fast services to and from HH.

 

[Techniquest]

I live in East Lancashire and Holyhead would be the nearest port. However not easy to get to Northern Ireland. It mean going on this route:
Blackburn to Preston, Preston to either Warrington or Crewe then a train from Warrington or Crewe to Holyhead, HSS from Holyhead to Dublin Bay or Dun Laigrie, Dart to Connolly Street for the Enterprise to Belfast Central then a train from Belfast Central to Ballymoney for a lift to my parents house.


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Worth looking into, but surely going to Manchester then using ATW through to Holyhead is a better option? Problem is getting across Manchester though unless you change at Salford Crescent for Manchester Oxford Road/Deansgate to go to Holyhead. Dunno if it's a better idea or not, but may be more suitable. Sure would be if services to Manchester from Blackburn went to Piccadilly and not Victoria.

I'm confused by this SailRail malarky now to be honest. There's an advert in the first page of ATW's timetable 2 for it, advertising singles from £31 to Dublin. Not a bad fare at all considering the distance (175+ each way from Hereford, plus the sea crossings), but then there's this Advance-style thing going on. So many issues that creates it's unreal.

Until it becomes nice and clear how it will all work, I'll be avoiding planning an Irish bash. Shame, as I really want to properly explore the Emerald Isle and get some more of my Baker coloured in.

 

[OwlMan]

I live in East Lancashire and Holyhead would be the nearest port. However not easy to get to Northern Ireland. It mean going on this route:
Blackburn to Preston, Preston to either Warrington or Crewe then a train from Warrington or Crewe to Holyhead, HSS from Holyhead to Dublin Bay or Dun Laigrie, Dart to Connolly Street for the Enterprise to Belfast Central then a train from Belfast Central to Ballymoney for a lift to my parents house.


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There is always the Liverpool - Belfast Stenna service, although rail & sail tickets are not available
Single Foot Passengers Fares from Liverpool to Belfast or return from £30

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/liverpool-belfast/tickets-and-fares/#foot

 

[4SRKT]

There is always the Liverpool - Belfast Stenna service, although rail & sail tickets are not available
Single Foot Passengers Fares from Liverpool to Belfast or return from £30

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/liverpool-belfast/tickets-and-fares/#foot

Aye, on the day boat. £50 each way on the night boat so £100 return plus rail fares to and from Birkenhead is massively more than the Rail & Sail fare via Holyhead or Cairnryan. On an 8 hour crossing only the night boat makes any sense frankly, so I refer any passengers from Northern England wishing to travel to Ireland once again to this link: www.ryanair.com
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Since the end of intra-EU duty free in 2000, there is very little value in foot passengers now

Why? They cost almost nothing to transport and can be regarded as filler revenue, especially on night time sailings that are almost empty of car traffic.

 

[34D]

I was on their official Facebook site and the coach connection from Ayr won't take dogs or disabled passengers in wheelchairs.

Erm DDA? (Not referring to the PSV Accessibility Regulations, but to the general Equality Act). Is there a link to this?

 

[island]

Erm DDA? (Not referring to the PSV Accessibility Regulations, but to the general Equality Act). Is there a link to this?

As far as I remember there is no requirement to comply with the DDA where it would result in more than a nominal cost to do so, which would encompass where older coaches are used, operators are not required to go to great expense to retrofit them.

 

[Paul Kelly]

On open tickets it's fine, but on advances the route and trains are pre-determined. Chester has no minimum connection time so a 5 minute connection isn't barred if one happens to be available.

The minimum connection time at Chester is actually 5 minutes, so journey planners will by default offer journeys with such a connection. But can advance fares only be booked with a journey planner system? I thought it was also possible to book an advance fare with the booking clerk simply making manual reservations on all the reservable trains that would be used during the journey. Maybe they are told not to do this any more? Do all booking offices have a journey planner system available these days? (Questions directed at nobody in particular; just anybody who might know!)

 

[paul1609]

Aye, on the day boat. £50 each way on the night boat so £100 return plus rail fares to and from Birkenhead is massively more than the Rail & Sail fare via Holyhead or Cairnryan. On an 8 hour crossing only the night boat makes any sense frankly, so I refer any passengers from Northern England wishing to travel to Ireland once again to this link: www.ryanair.com.

Does anybody know why Sailrail fares are priced so low? Often they massively undercut the rail only fare.
Are they "protected" in the rail sense?
What sort of percentage goes to the ferry operator?

 

[4SRKT]

Does anybody know why Sailrail fares are priced so low? Often they massively undercut the rail only fare.
Are they "protected" in the rail sense?
What sort of percentage goes to the ferry operator?

I'm not certain but I believe it's some sort of legacy of the privatisation of Sealink in (IIRR) 1984, where BR/Sealink British Ferries, later Stena, were obliged to continue to offer through fares at some sort of very cheap price.

 

[34D]

Small worry that I've just come across with Sail Rail tickets being restricted to certain trains is the tightness of the connection at Chester into the 'boat train' 22:56 departure from there to Holyhead. The train from Manchester gets into Chester at 22:51 and so any passengers trying to use the overnight boat from Manchester or anywhere in Yorkshire or North East England will be pushed into a connection that nobody in his right mind would make on an open ticket.

First question - does 1D36 (21:32 Man Air-Chester) come up as a mandatory service or does it just serve as a suggested service?

As you say 1W90 19:34 Cardiff-Holyhead leaves Chester at 22:51, 5 mins after the Manchester service arrives. Now, I'm probably going to be wasting my typing here, but both services are operated by ATW, and there is more at stake than just paying for a hotel room and then allowing to travel on a train the next day (there is taxi fares, hotel and a fresh Ferry ticket to worry about).

Assuming the Manchester train is mandatory (for say a Blackburn-Dublin ticketholder) then is it worth ATW using some common sense and allowing passengers for Ireland (N or S) to use 1D35 20:32 man air-chester, perhaps by an easement?

 

[4SRKT]

First question - does 1D36 (21:32 Man Air-Chester) come up as a mandatory service or does it just serve as a suggested service?

As you say 1W90 19:34 Cardiff-Holyhead leaves Chester at 22:51, 5 mins after the Manchester service arrives. Now, I'm probably going to be wasting my typing here, but both services are operated by ATW, and there is more at stake than just paying for a hotel room and then allowing to travel on a train the next day (there is taxi fares, hotel and a fresh Ferry ticket to worry about).

Assuming the Manchester train is mandatory (for say a Blackburn-Dublin ticketholder) then is it worth ATW using some common sense and allowing passengers for Ireland (N or S) to use 1D35 20:32 man air-chester, perhaps by an easement?

Possibly, but it doesn't help me much (or anyone else from this side of the Pennines) because the mandatory train from Leeds is the 20:40, and from what I know of TPE if I show up on the 19:40 I'll be asked to cough up.

 

[34D]

Possibly, but it doesn't help me much (or anyone else from this side of the Pennines) because the mandatory train from Leeds is the 20:40, and from what I know of TPE if I show up on the 19:40 I'll be asked to cough up.

Depends how they write it. Would it be theoretically possibly to write a 10 minute chester minimum interchange for Chester for sail rail passengers?

 

[4SRKT]

Depends how they write it. Would it be theoretically possibly to write a 10 minute chester minimum interchange for Chester for sail rail passengers?

As you say, it would make sense for ATW if they did. Until I can be sure that they will, for all practical purposes Rail & Sail is dead on the night Holyhead boat unless you live in a town served by the 19:10 ex-Euston or 19:34 ex-Cardiff.

 

[34D]

As you say, it would make sense for ATW if they did. Until I can be sure that they will, for all practical purposes Rail & Sail is dead on the night Holyhead boat unless you live in a town served by the 19:10 ex-Euston or 19:34 ex-Cardiff.

Indeed. 1D93 19:10 euston-holyhead is Chester dep 21:17 - will an advance from Leeds put you on this perhaps (with the later chester-holyhead as a fallback option.

 

[All Line Rover]

Can SailRail tickets be booked online still? I've tried numerous dates in the future - on both the ATW and VT sites - and both don't find any tickets.

 

[4SRKT]

Indeed. 1D93 19:10 euston-holyhead is Chester dep 21:17 - will an advance from Leeds put you on this perhaps (with the later chester-holyhead as a fallback option.

No. I've tried putting an earlier time in the hope of getting routed on the 20:50 ex-Manchester and using the 22:04 Chester > Holyhead with 22:56 as back up. Still routes on the last available train into Holyhead.
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Can SailRail tickets be booked online still? I've tried numerous dates in the future - on both the ATW and VT sites - and both don't find any tickets.

So have I and I couldn't find anything either. Not on the Stena site either. It's bollocks isn't it?

 

[WestCoast]

So have I and I couldn't find anything either. Not on the Stena site either. It's bollocks isn't it?

Can't find anything online either. I am sure Raileasy used to sell them, it's not working.

At least the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company puts the info for IoM SailRail on their website, where is Stena's info?

 

[4SRKT]

There was a period sometime in 2010 where the Rail & Sail info disappeared for several weeks from NRE. It came back again, minus through tickets to Belfast via Dublin. Maybe every time they change owt there is a big lag getting it onto various info systems.

 

[WestCoast]

There was a period sometime in 2010 where the Rail & Sail info disappeared for several weeks from NRE. It came back again, minus through tickets to Belfast via Dublin. Maybe every time they change owt there is a big lag getting it onto various info systems.

Irish Ferries have all their information though: www.irishferries.com/gb/fares-offers-ireland-from-britain.asp and T&Cs www.irishferries.com/ie/sailrail-t-cs.asp

Oh, and ATW were not taking bookings past 24/12/11 for SailRail. I presume that's due to the changes.

 

[phil8715]

Would Blackburn to Belfast via Holyhead and Dun Laigrie be a valid & reasonable route?


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[4SRKT]

Would Blackburn to Belfast via Holyhead and Dun Laigrie be a valid & reasonable route?


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It used to be. You could buy a Rail & Sail ticket to Belfast for £10 more than the Dublin fare. You can get cheap advances off the Irish Rail website for the 07:35 Dublin > Belfast so all in all it's still a good way to get there.

 

[phil8715]

It used to be. You could buy a Rail & Sail ticket to Belfast for £10 more than the Dublin fare. You can get cheap advances off the Irish Rail website for the 07:35 Dublin > Belfast so all in all it's still a good way to get there.

What i would have done was buy a return from Dublin Connolly to Newry and use an iLink all zones card to get me to my final destination which would be Ballymoney.


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[4SRKT]

What i would have done was buy a return from Dublin Connolly to Newry and use an iLink all zones card to get me to my final destination which would be Ballymoney.


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A return from Dublin to Newry is more expensive than a pair of advance fares between Dublin and Newry/Portadown/Belfast on all but a handful of trains.

 

[bkhtele]

Surely you can still buy a sail rail at the UK station direct to a NI station via Dublin. I bought one last November (carrickfergus). Also according to seat 61 you can buy a walkon/standby sail rail for an extra £5 that only requires a ferry reservation - see Ireland page.

 

[4SRKT]

Surely you can still buy a sail rail at the UK station direct to a NI station via Dublin. I bought one last November (carrickfergus). Also according to seat 61 you can buy a walkon/standby sail rail for an extra £5 that only requires a ferry reservation - see Ireland page.

The Stena website now states (since the move to Cairnryan) that the only options are stations in Scotland to Belfast, or stations in England and Wales to Dublin or Rosslare. Not sure about Irish Ferries though.