S Stock feels dated despite age

[vuzzeho]

Their air cooling systems seem pretty poor this year compared to the Elizabeth line. Do they need maintenance?

To be honest, I think they're just not very good, same with the 378s. Unless the carriage was quite empty, I've always found it kinda rubbish.

 

[Wolfie]

To be honest, I think they're just not very good, same with the 378s. Unless the carriage was quite empty, I've always found it kinda rubbish.

Certainly not the case on the District line train l got on at Whitechapel yesterday. Positively artic compared with the 378 l'd just left.

I don't imagine that either are helped by lots of opening doors and short distances between stations.

 

[GFE]

It would seem that there are several Air con modules in each S stock car - so perhaps some units struggling but train still Ok for service?
Also perhaps dependent on the temperature sensors setting/calibration

 

[Dstock7080]

It would seem that there are several Air con modules in each S stock car -

one unit per car, except DM which has a separate small cab unit.

 

[pbin]

Maybe I’m misremembering but I think the air conditioning on the S-stock doesn’t extract the humidity, so it’s just air cooling, really…

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe I’m misremembering but I think the air conditioning on the S-stock doesn’t extract the humidity, so it’s just air cooling, really…

You're quite correct. Extract from an FOI request from 2023:

Do the trains use air conditioning (using typical refrigeration and humidity/air extraction) and/or air cooling systems (without humidity extraction)? Yes, the trains use air conditioning (HVAC) units. Each HVAC module contains a refrigerant circuit using R407C and is hermetically sealed. The HVAC units have passive ventilation but not humidity extraction

FOI request detail - Transport for London https://share.google/qy600fQaOtkf41n7u

So in humid weather, like this summer has been so far, it's not going to work particularly effectively especially if the train is full of people.

UPDATE: Using the power of Google I've found that the majority of UK mainline rolling stock aircon also does not have a dedicated humidity extraction system.

 

[Wolfie]

You're quite correct. Extract from an FOI request from 2023:


FOI request detail - Transport for London https://share.google/qy600fQaOtkf41n7u

So in humid weather, like this summer has been so far, it's not going to work particularly effectively especially if the train is full of people.

UPDATE: Using the power of Google I've found that the majority of UK mainline rolling stock aircon also does not have a dedicated humidity extraction system.

Less than useful given that UK heat is almost inevitably accompanied by stupidly high humidity.

 

[Silent]

Maybe I’m misremembering but I think the air conditioning on the S-stock doesn’t extract the humidity, so it’s just air cooling, really…

That’s probably why on a really bad hay fever year for me, I noticed my itchy throat and coughing wouldn’t go away on an s stock out class 378, but went away on class 700’s, 350 I think and went away in supermarkets.

 

[Recessio]

You're quite correct. Extract from an FOI request from 2023:


FOI request detail - Transport for London https://share.google/qy600fQaOtkf41n7u

So in humid weather, like this summer has been so far, it's not going to work particularly effectively especially if the train is full of people.

UPDATE: Using the power of Google I've found that the majority of UK mainline rolling stock aircon also does not have a dedicated humidity extraction system.

I think that's the same for cars though?

 

[pbin]

Also not certain on this, either, but I think the Aventras do have humidity control.

 

[Mikey C]

Before they had opening windows retrofitted, the London Borismaster bus had an air cooling system which wasn't powerful enough to cool down the interior. It did reduce the humidity though, as emphasised when on a bus where it wasn't working, the upstairs was horribly damp and steamed up. So the system did reduce humidity, even if it wasn't full airconditioning?

I think that's the same for cars though?

I'm pretty sure cars have air conditioning, as reducing the humidity to stop windows steaming up is a key benefit of having such a system installed.

 

[35B]

I'm pretty sure cars have air conditioning, as reducing the humidity to stop windows steaming up is a key benefit of having such a system installed.

Correct. My car is much more pleasant because of the dehumidification performed by the air conditioner than if it were just cooled

 

[AM9]

Correct. My car is much more pleasant because of the dehumidification performed by the air conditioner than if it were just cooled

Isn't that why on a really hot and humid day, there will be a pool of condensation beneath a parked vehicle? That could only have come from a drain of evaporator condensate.

 

[100andthirty]

It is the process of cooling the air that performs the dehumidifier function. A car's and a train's cooling system both do this. Full air conditioning has an extra step that the cooled air is heated, if necessary, to deliver air at the temperature set by the thermostat. Cars have lots of surplus heat for the reheating function. On trains, especially in the winter, cooling and heating both require energy from the electrical supply. Whether S stock cooling functions as well as heating in cold weather is a question I can't answer, but T697 will probably be along to confirm.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Going to start off by saying I don’t think S Stock are bad trains by any stretch of the imagination - they’re a massive improvement on what came before them.

However, they do not feel their age, and I mean this in a negative way. Despite entering service in 2010, the interiors of the trains feel like they’re from the 90s with their dim yellow halogen light tubes, worn seats/armrests, and lack of any digital screens, along with a very dated colour scheme. With the New Tube for London on the way for the Piccadilly line (and hopefully the Bakerloo), I think it’s appropriate that TfL should start to look into how these trains can be brought up to a similar standard.

At the very least, the seat moquettes should be replaced, and new LED lighting should be installed. Both of these changes wouldn’t be too costly to implement.

Wishful thinking would also see the dot matrix replaced with screens similar to those on the 345s, with much better way finding.

I do agree they look dated internally compared to the likes of the Class 345 and Class 710 contemporaries. I feel the large use of plastic panels and yellow contributes to this. The lack of TV style real time PIS indicators also contributes to this feeling.

 

[Pegpilot]

Back in the day, there was quite a falling out between Bombardier, Metronet and LUL over the S Stock aircon requirements. Bombardier initiially stated that an 8-car train would require a max current draw of, IIRC, 3280 amps with aircon running and the train accelerating. Subsequent to contract award they re-evaluated and came back demanding 3500 amps, feeding an aircon system significantly beefier than what was bid (an additional 140 kW or so). Of course this placed more pressure on Metronet and LUL, who would need to spend more on power supply enhancement to feed these, as Uncle Roger might have described them, "power hungry lard-butts". Quite how it finally panned out I don't know, as I moved on when Metronet crashed and burned in 2007. But I presume Derby got their way.