Excuse my ignorance, but what is the "big word" tag on inside bearing bogies all about?
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S Stock feels dated despite age
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The 730s interior surely is very pleasant but the Electrostar era interiors, despite feeling more closed in, also can feel more comfortable. Maybe it’s a compromise between spaciousness and comfort.
I’ve heard the 24ts also use bogies integrated in the body of part or the body weight, am I correct, to reduce track wear I think.
But even so I think aventras are quite conventional looking. Most modern uk trains seem to look conventional I think, since probably the 10s. I guess because it guarantees reliability. If a company were to design a new train, without being too traditional, or using standard looking parts, the Aventra can look a bit dated as well.
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I don't understand the lights looking dated on the S stock. Do you mean the light bulbs themselves not being LED, or the light holders? I think the holders are a brilliant piece of design vs the white plastic on other stock that always gets full of dirt and muck. I was astonished how much brighter the 96 stock got when they cleaned the holders, that won't ever be a problem on the S stock design. LED bulbs would be nice though provided they aren't too cold in hue.
The seat covers could do with a refresh though, absolutely.
The internal lights not being led and I think the shape of the external light, although I consider it just a conventional design as well. And the bulky side body external lights. I think with led’s maybe designers like to show off how thin the lights can be so try to blend it more into the body of a vehicle or integrate it more.
I meant the lighting not being LEDs.
The biggest difference between Electrostar and Aventra interiors is the former having more segregation with things like gangway doors, more differentiation in the area around the (external) doors, etc.
That sounds familiar; something to do with "reducing the unsprung mass" (whatever that means), I think?
The S stock design was completed in 2006, at a time when LED for general lighting was in its infancy. Obviously a mid-life refurb can include an overall change of the lighting, but the trains provide the service needed, are exceptionally reliable, and the old saying, 'if it aint broke etc. ...' goes. There might be an exception to repair seats that have had the most wear, but that could probably be arranged at minimal disruption.
UK rail is faced in many areas of increased patronage where all the easy changes have been deployed, e.g., longer trains and more frequent services. Stock used for commuter services is especially overcrowded, so the style of interiors in recent designs has accommodated demand by more standing room and improving the ease with which they can be accessed and left by passengers. Thus through gangways, wider in-car gangways and fewer seats are feature for new stock procured for those mixed type of services.
Unsprung mass is damaging to track, thus better and more compliant axle suspension means that the bogie mass is not shock inducing.
I was thinking a bit about this. 92 stock design, ignoring the wear and tear, actually seems more modern than 95/6 stock. The widths of the doors are similar size to 09 and 24 ts, whilst 95/6 stock has similar width to older stock such as 73, but a little wider. Idk if it's cause of the 83 stock initial proposals that were cancelled, but the carriage length being long is actually the opposite of 09/S and 24 stocks, I think. The seats despite less comfortable I think are designed for more floor space on 92 stock, which newer tube stock seem to do. 95/6 stock seem to have seats a bit more designed for comfort like I assume with older stocks, though it doesn't maximise floor space.I would assume more modern stock took practicality, aesthetics wise, from the 95/6 stock, but layout from the 92 stock.
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Something I just noticed looking at 96 stock is that the doors also sometimes don’t all close the same time. I think this is something I would’ve found annoying about the s stock but I think the reason is just that it’s more obvious on the s stock and probably the upcoming 24 stock. I think that maybe the s stock has individual door chimes so the lack of sync in all doors opening is sometimes obvious whereas I only observed this looking at a 96 stock as the door chimes are probably for the whole train.
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FrontSideBus
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It seems they are struggling to find lamps for these trains now. They all used to use warm white lamps but now you see mixtures of 827, 830, 835 and 840 which does stand out quite a bit when all in the same carriage! I suppose they are using whatever they can get their hands on since the ban on import or manufacture of fluorescent lamps came in a few years ago.
Sylvania Helios retrofits would be an excellent choice to replace these IMO.
Sylvania Helios retrofits would be an excellent choice to replace these IMO.
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This fluorescent bulb ban came in around 2023, so in the long term, what will be the plan? Will they just wait until there are a considerable amount of bulbs which have blown before deciding to go with a fleet wide replacement? (I am thinking 1972 stock pre LED fitting when you would see a significant number of the old style lights not working)
They're not related at all. Train manufacturers use the same brand name to designate platforms which have nothing in common. The S Stock and the C30 are branded as Movia trains, and that's the only thing they have in common. All Bombardier metros were branded Movia, and obviously most were very different to each other. The same goes with Alstom's Metropolis, Siemens' Inspiro, and most non-modular train platforms worldwide.
Ah fair enough, though looking at some external photos, they do share some vague similarities around the windows and general body shape.
Design-wise they're based on the C20 train, which is an ADtranz design.
RacsoMoquette
Member
Did ABB Transportation become ADtranz? When exactly did this occur, what it when ABB merged with Daimler-Benz transportation and then the name was changed. I am interested to know if the 2009TS for the Victoria Line had any similarities with the 1992TS for the Central Line built at the same plant but by ABB 20 years earlier?
Was the “Movia” family originally an ADtranz design? Being a Bombardier design when they took over ADtranz.
Was the “Movia” family originally an ADtranz design? Being a Bombardier design when they took over ADtranz.
2009 tube stock is noted for having a similar shape to 1992 tube stock as 95/6 tube stock shapes looked more traditional as they look more like 72/73/83 stock by shape. And I think the backrest angle of the seats in an 09 stock is also more similar angle to 92 stock than 95/6 stock but this is probably to maximise the floor space as 24 stock seat backrests are also flatter like the 09 stock.
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The light holders are problematic because bugs can get in through the holes, but die within the fixture and rest on the holes rather than falling through them!
ADtranz was created in 1996 as a joint-venture of ABB and Daimler-Benz.
Movia is just a generic name given to Bombardier to its metro products. It doesn't describe a product with precision, for example Paris' MF 01 trains are presented as Metropolis trains by Alstom and as Movia trains by Bombardier, as both manufacturers were involved in its design.
Transilien
Member
Why are they like this? Is it to do with vandalism? I know some electrostars feature this too.
I think the holes were in response to light holders in the style of e.g. the 95/96 stocks always getting dust and grime trapped in them
Although the 2009 stock has the plastic casing. I’m assuming this doesn’t matter as much with led lights???
S stock was after the 2009 stock I think? I just picked 95/96 as my example because I'd used them this morning and knew they definitely had the plastic casing!
Yes s stock seems a bit more similar to 24 ts with small stuff too like the door type, the armrests.
Mikey C
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The S and 2009s were constructed at basically the same time. I assume the lighting is different, as on the much lower 2009 stock, the lights are within touching distance of the passengers, and light shades with holes in would be considered dangerous.
How?
Scratching skin I assume especially as it gets older and wears out maybe
I noticed the same myself a couple of weeks ago, it certainly became more obvious when I later got on a District Line train that was like a fridge in comparison.
No I think it's just like that. I remember them not work super well in 2022 when London got to 40C. Also one year I had bad hayfever, I noticed I would stop coughing in Asda supermarket or a Class 700 or Class 350 I think even. However my haayfever symptoms were bad whilst in an S stock or class 378. I think the ventilation systems are built to a different spec.
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Yes I'm hearing the S stock air con temperature is cooler than the Elizabeth line.