S Stock feels dated despite age

[OneTrackMinded]

Going to start off by saying I don’t think S Stock are bad trains by any stretch of the imagination - they’re a massive improvement on what came before them.

However, they do not feel their age, and I mean this in a negative way. Despite entering service in 2010, the interiors of the trains feel like they’re from the 90s with their dim yellow halogen light tubes, worn seats/armrests, and lack of any digital screens, along with a very dated colour scheme. With the New Tube for London on the way for the Piccadilly line (and hopefully the Bakerloo), I think it’s appropriate that TfL should start to look into how these trains can be brought up to a similar standard.

At the very least, the seat moquettes should be replaced, and new LED lighting should be installed. Both of these changes wouldn’t be too costly to implement.

Wishful thinking would also see the dot matrix replaced with screens similar to those on the 345s, with much better way finding.

 

[MCR247]

I’m not sure they have the budget for this. If they did, I’m not sure it’d be a priority. Everything except worn seats and armrests are essentially just your personal tastes and preferences. The PIS is perfectly functional as is the lighting.

 

[Russel]

The seating is in a terrible state, but I believe there is a tender out for this, so hopefully not for much longer.

I do agree though, they do feel older then they are, just upgrading the lighting to cool white LED would be a big improvement.

 

[Silent]

Going to start off by saying I don’t think S Stock are bad trains by any stretch of the imagination - they’re a massive improvement on what came before them.

However, they do not feel their age, and I mean this in a negative way. Despite entering service in 2010, the interiors of the trains feel like they’re from the 90s with their dim yellow halogen light tubes, worn seats/armrests, and lack of any digital screens, along with a very dated colour scheme. With the New Tube for London on the way for the Piccadilly line (and hopefully the Bakerloo), I think it’s appropriate that TfL should start to look into how these trains can be brought up to a similar standard.

At the very least, the seat moquettes should be replaced, and new LED lighting should be installed. Both of these changes wouldn’t be too costly to implement.

Wishful thinking would also see the dot matrix replaced with screens similar to those on the 345s, with much better way finding.

No they look their age to me. I agree the colour scheme is dated though. Yellow grab poles on trains was so 2000s. 2010 was 15 years ago so of cause it will look outdated. The class 378, that is the same age, also uses dmi instead of screens. Screens seem to be used more from the mid 10 and to me the 24 stock using them for ads seems a bit forward thinking. Not surprising as this has been on escalators however I haven’t seen trains with screens for ads as well currently.

 

[AM9]

I think the perception of the age of a trains design is more a reflection of the viewer's age. Apart from wear and tear of the seats, the S stock still appears clean and modern, and is well kept, unlike some National rail stock.

 

[Silent]

The seating is in a terrible state, but I believe there is a tender out for this, so hopefully not for much longer.

I do agree though, they do feel older then they are, just upgrading the lighting to cool white LED would be a big improvement.

I feel like cool white led lights won’t match the slightly beige toned plastics in the train.

 

[dosxuk]

Normally people on these pages are complaining about stock having surgery eye-searing cold white lighting. S-stock often given as an example of how it should be done. Bit of a novelty to see someone calling for the opposite!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Normally people on these pages are complaining about stock having surgery eye-searing cold white lighting. S-stock often given as an example of how it should be done. Bit of a novelty to see someone calling for the opposite!

Quite. These units are as close to perfect for their role as they will ever get.

What do they want, junk like 777s?

 

[Silent]

Normally people on these pages are complaining about stock having surgery eye-searing cold white lighting. S-stock often given as an example of how it should be done. Bit of a novelty to see someone calling for the opposite!

I wonder if the harsh led lighting in other modern stock is to prevent people from falling asleep on the train?

 

[Stompehh]

I was thinking the opposite when on one the other day - I think they are still holding up very well and are excellent trains. Yes there's a bit of wear but as mentioned above this should be sorted soon.

The PIS, whilst it doesn't have full colour screens, is most definitely "digital" and works very well, better than some more modern systems. The audio is also very loud and clear. Perhaps at a mid life refurb (5 years time?) the screens could be upgraded, or additional ones added to supplement the existing, but I don't think it's urgent.

 

[A60stock]

I disagree, the interiors do not feel dated to that extent.

Asides from the obvious give away of using DMIs (which themselves feel more late 2000s) instead of LED screens, they otherwise feel modern. Yes the lighting should have been the cool white LEDs instead of warm, but I thought these were being changed as each tube blew? The moquette being worn just more gives the impression that they have not been maintained, rather than dated.

A refurb from 2030 onwards would make sense as the S8s will be over 20 years old by then

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes the lighting should have been the cool white LEDs instead of warm

Disagree most strongly.

, but I thought these were being changed as each tube blew?

I think they're just randomly using what they've got in stock, and it looks rubbish.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They're no more dated than any other stock of a similar age, including the 378s at Overground.

They certainly don't feel like they're from the 90s. I can only assume you're not old enough to remember the 90s!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I appreciate all the responses, but if you go to other european countries, trains around this age look a lot newer on the inside.

 

[sh24]

I think they present very well apart from some fixable wear and tear. The lighting is really, really good on these and totally does NOT need to be changed. LED white is so unpleasant.

 

[AM9]

I appreciate all the responses, but if you go to other european countries, trains around this age look a lot newer on the inside.

That depends on which mainland Europe countries you are comparing them with. Given that there are 44 countries in Europe, it's pretty easy to cherry pick one or even some to either praise or put down one particular train type in London. I believe that the S class stock is appreciated by many visitors to London from other European countries.

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

I think they present very well apart from some fixable wear and tear. The lighting is really, really good on these and totally does NOT need to be changed. LED white is so unpleasant.

I agree, some folks tend to think that white LEDs are modern looking( Possibly influenced by futuristic sci-fi aesthetics?), but I feel that warm yellow lighting gives a comfy, homelike feel to the atmosphere that cold white lighting lacks.

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Normally people on these pages are complaining about stock having surgery eye-searing cold white lighting. S-stock often given as an example of how it should be done. Bit of a novelty to see someone calling for the opposite!

I agree. In fact, modern looking doesn't means more comfort. In fact I would argue that the seats of mk iii EMUs to be much more comfortable than most of the stocks that replaced them.

 

[Thirteen]

The S Stock only did a moquette refresh because of the seats are going threadbare and maybe updating the PIS but apart from that, they're in pretty good nick. The only major issue is the vandalism that has happened in recent years on the exterior.

 

[croydontangle]

Not surprising as this has been on escalators however I haven’t seen trains with screens for ads as well currently.

Tangent but I have seen this on a couple Northern services. It’s a bit annoying when you want to see actually useful information and have to wait for three ads to scroll by

 

[Silent]

I was thinking the opposite when on one the other day - I think they are still holding up very well and are excellent trains. Yes there's a bit of wear but as mentioned above this should be sorted soon.

The PIS, whilst it doesn't have full colour screens, is most definitely "digital" and works very well, better than some more modern systems. The audio is also very loud and clear. Perhaps at a mid life refurb (5 years time?) the screens could be upgraded, or additional ones added to supplement the existing, but I don't think it's urgent.

To me it feels very digital, even the finish, as in plastic casings somewhat feels more modern than prior stock because they look more accurately fitted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Disagree most strongly.



I think they're just randomly using what they've got in stock, and it looks rubbish.

Me too why not warm tone leds instead especially because the plastics are coloured very mildly beige.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Tangent but I have seen this on a couple Northern services. It’s a bit annoying when you want to see actually useful information and have to wait for three ads to scroll by

Hopefully the middle screens are dedicated to passenger announcements. Anyways I think mixing ads with passenger information actually looks cheap and I don’t think tfl like to look cheap.

 

[100andthirty]

The seat started wearing unusually early and, in my view, having a form of moquette on the armrests was a mistake. As for LED lighting, S stock's design was about 5 years to early for the designers to confidently adopt LED lighting. Changing both is a big job. With 1403 vehicles introduced over a comparatively short time, all the repairs/upgrades come at once. This is a challenge as there are over 50,000 seats to replace/re-upholster and the better part of 30,000 light tubes!

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

I think the perception of the age of a trains design is more a reflection of the viewer's age. Apart from wearing and tear of the seats, the S stock still appears clean and modern, and is well kept, unlike some National rail stock.

To me, the 1992 stock is still the most futuristic looking train in LUL's fleet(especially the 482s with NSE livery).

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me, the 1992 stock is still the most futuristic looking train in LUL's fleet.

The 1990s were a time of looking forward and futurism, giving us stuff like the 170 and its ribbon glazing, and the greys inside 158s, Networkers etc. The 2020s have gone back more traditional in my view - the Aventra for instance doesn't look particularly modern, and the Lizzie ones have that particularly classic interior look TfL seems fond of.

 

[Silent]

The 1990s were a time of looking forward and futurism, giving us stuff like the 170 and its ribbon glazing, and the greys inside 158s, Networkers etc. The 2020s have gone back more traditional in my view - the Aventra for instance doesn't look particularly modern, and the Lizzie ones have that particularly classic interior look TfL seems fond of.

I think this is even reflected in music.

 

[Tetchytyke]

if you go to other european countries, trains around this age look a lot newer on the inside

Do you have specific examples in mind? In my experience they do not; the trains on the Hamburg and Berlin S-Bahn certainly don’t.

 

[tram21]

I always think how modern they still feel, despite their age. I feel the same about the Nottingham Citadis trams, which despite being over 11 years old feel almost brand new after they've had their monthly(?) deep clean.

 

[Zb0905]

You might as well say the 2009 stock is outdated too

 

[OneTrackMinded]

You might as well say the 2009 stock is outdated too

The 2009 stock’s interior looks a lot more modern than the S Stock, mainly because they chose to cover the light tubes.

 

[bramling]

You might as well say the 2009 stock is outdated too

I’ve always thought the 09 stock is fairly timeless inside, though the moquette looks dated but this is more wear than design. The front end does shout 00s though, although interestingly from the inside there’s a very slight hint of 38/59/62 stock with the way the cab windows are shaped, less noticeable from the outside.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Going to start off by saying I don’t think S Stock are bad trains by any stretch of the imagination - they’re a massive improvement on what came before them.

However, they do not feel their age, and I mean this in a negative way. Despite entering service in 2010, the interiors of the trains feel like they’re from the 90s with their dim yellow halogen light tubes, worn seats/armrests, and lack of any digital screens, along with a very dated colour scheme. With the New Tube for London on the way for the Piccadilly line (and hopefully the Bakerloo), I think it’s appropriate that TfL should start to look into how these trains can be brought up to a similar standard.

At the very least, the seat moquettes should be replaced, and new LED lighting should be installed. Both of these changes wouldn’t be too costly to implement.

Wishful thinking would also see the dot matrix replaced with screens similar to those on the 345s, with much better way finding.

I agree about the moquette and the yellow grab poles, which I’ve never been keen on. I don’t really see what the issue is with the lighting though, apart from that it’s yellowish in tone, but that’s just a design choice. Personally I prefer it to awful cool white.

This isn’t really traditional fluorescent lighting, those who remember rail travel in the 90s will recognise that in those days lighting tended to have a slight pink hue to it rather than yellow. A few of the preserved Mk1-based EMUs and DEMUs found at preserved lines retain this, and it’s amazing how such a little detail can take the mind back a generation.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I don’t really see what the issue is with the lighting though

The lights don’t have a proper cover over them, which shows the tube. That design is very much 90s, maybe even earlier. The old sub-surface trains had visible tubes.