Running Out of Fuel

[apbj]

It's buried at the side of the fuel tank under the floor of the vehicle. As far as I am aware no reliable system has yet been invented to indicate to the driver the level of fuel in a tank 3-4 feet below him/her.

This seems ... a bit of an oversight?

 

[D6130]

Diesel engine running out of fuel is not good news for road going vehicles, as you have to bleed the engine so the air is removed from the fuel system, is this the same for trains if they run out of fuel?

Yes....the same applies to any diesel engine.

 

[saismee]

It’s not like he can pull into Cullompton Services and self serve a few 1000 litres of diesel when his class 802 indicates it is running low.

The burning question... why not?

"This service has been delayed due to needing to find a petrol station."

 

[norbitonflyer]

Could be a unit swap and the replacement hasn't been refuelled as recently as the one it is replacing.
Fuel leak?
One engine not working and the others having to use more fuel to compensate - so there is still fuel on board, but not in the cars with working engines.
Misfuelling (tank wasn't filled as full as it should have been)
More auxiliaries needed (aircon/ heating) because of weather
Shortage of fuel at fuelling point, so making an "economy run" to another fuelling point

 

[D6130]

One engine not working and the others having to use more fuel to compensate - so there is still fuel on board, but not in the cars with working engines.

The TPE class 185s have a GPS-based fuel economy system which shuts down one of the engine on one of the three cars when the train is travelling on a long down grade (e.g. Standedge Tunnel to Huddersfield or Stalybridge) or is stopped for a certain length of time. This must cause some problems for unit fuel monitoring.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The TPE class 185s have a GPS-based fuel economy system which shuts down one of the engine on one of the three cars when the train is travelling on a long down grade (e.g. Standedge Tunnel to Huddersfield or Stalybridge) or is stopped for a certain length of time. This must cause some problems for unit fuel monitoring.

How does it decide which one to shut down? Is fuel level taken into account?

 

[Howardh]

Fuel leak?

My thought too - could the fuel tank be ruptured in any way, and if so, how would a driver know? To be honest it's hard to think how that might happen but it's a possibility?

 

[Class73Electro]

Had this happen to me. Getting the train from Hastings through to Eastbourne few years back, the 171 Turbostar from Ashford turned up, stated it was cancelled due to running out of fuel, and drove off - passed it at the St Leonards Depot on the next train out.

 

[800301]

Please excuse the ignorance, but why is it easier?

No TMS to throw a hissy fit and if an 80x dies of battery power it’s a long day to get it going again, a turbo is much simpler even if it’s dead with no air

 

[s491]

I was on an XC 47 hauled train that ran out of fuel or suffered fuel starvation. Driver was not happy. Chuntering away like mad and moaning that the tank was half full of sludge rather than diesel! I am not sure how he would know this but we waited ages while another loco was rustled up.

47/4's with extended range tanks and the 47/7's were legendary for that sort of cock up. The gauge on the tank slung underneath is just for that tank.....not the whole loco. So drivers would see it on 3/4 and think "that's ok". But it meant you had 3/4 of the additional tank and an empty main tank. There is a seperate fuel gauge is on the side of the internal fuel tank.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Here is a well known video from “wee hurrie” showing 33103 being refuelled by a farmer having run out of fuel at Sleaford South on 03/12/2005.

 

[Whisky Papa]

They manage it on cars, vans and lorries.

That said, I doubt it's information drivers actually need on a regular basis.

I'm not sure if your omission of buses from that list was deliberate or not, but I can't recall any of the full-sized buses (as distinct from van-derived minibuses) I ever drove had one. I only ran out of fuel once, about 20 miles short of the finish on the highest mileage bus working we then had at Todmorden.

Moving on to a later portion of my working life, it was stressed to me that mileage had to be taken into account when compiling Short Term Plan unit diagrams, especially when the normal linkage onto the following day's diagram had been broken. Pacers were a particular concern, having roundly half the mileage available compared to the Sprinter classes. Naturally the train planning software recorded the mileage changes, so we could at least pass on a realistic starting plan to Control.

 

[Crossover]

How does it decide which one to shut down? Is fuel level taken into account?

I *think* (but don't quote me) it may be based on running hours (my memory tells me the servicing on the 185's engines is based on running hours)

 

[Archvile]

For those questioning the viability of a fuel gauge showing the contents of a fuel tank located a few feet away (!), I'm currently looking at the fuel level in my car, 130 miles away, from an app on my phone.

I would also direct your attention to any airliner.

 

[TransportHub]

The burning question... why not?

"This service has been delayed due to needing to find a petrol station."

It happened back in BR days

 

[Magdalia]

On June 22nd my son caught the 18:41 Manchester Piccadilly to Norwich which was running 30 mins late from Liverpool. Passengers were told that as it was running late it would bypass Sheffield, which it did. After Chesterfield passengers were advised that due to signal problems the train wouldn’t be stopping at Alfreton. At Grantham passengers were advised that as it was running short of fuel the train would not be stopping at Ely. The train finally arrived in Norwich 14 minutes late. How can a unit run out of fuel, especially as the journey was shortened?

The key part of the story is the diversion between Chesterfield and Nottingham. Assuming this was via Derby that adds 12 miles to the journey.

Furthermore, the train was late start from Liverpool because it had done the same diversion on its northbound journey too, so it had 24 miles added on altogether.

The class 170 going through to Norwich had started from Derby in the morning and gone to Sheffield and then Norwich, before a full round trip to Liverpool and back. Even without any diversions that's more than 700 miles. I have no idea how near that is to class 170 range on one tank of fuel.

The very hot weather may also have been a factor.

Not leave a station if they won't make it to the next one?

The story reminds me of Norwich-Birmingham loco hauled days. When the trains first went over to ETH the loco on the last train from Birmingham into Norwich started out on a trip from Norwich to Yarmouth and back before going to Birmingham, and had a long layover at Birmingham, for which it went to Oxley. This was very close to maximum range for a class 31, and there were quite a few occasions where the Norwich driver taking over at March at about 2100 would check the fuel and demand a fresh loco off the shed.

I was on an XC 47 hauled train that ran out of fuel or suffered fuel starvation.

When the twin tank class 47s 47650-665 were first modified they worked the Aberdeen-Kings Cross sleepers throughout. They became notorious for ruining the GN morning peak by running out of fuel towards the end of the journey, sometimes stopping in the two track section for maximum disruption.

 

[trundlewagon]

For those questioning the viability of a fuel gauge showing the contents of a fuel tank located a few feet away (!), I'm currently looking at the fuel level in my car, 130 miles away, from an app on my phone.

On the stuff I drive, maintenance control get a low fuel warning pinged through but there's nothing on the units themselves*

*Other than a sight glass on the fuel tank that, as with everything else below sole bar, presumably became irretrievably stained in Railway Brown™ within about 2 weeks of entry in to service.

 

[Jimini]

It happened back in BR days
View attachment 206990

 

[Dr Hoo]

In BR days it wasn’t unknown for HSTs on Anglo-Scottish diagrams to run into loops by Heaton (s/b) or Gateshead (n/b) when it was still open. Each had some ‘long reach’ hoses at the fuel points. Particularly valuable for a top-up when running on a single power car.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

What is the cost of diesel for train companies?

 

[Acathater]

In, I think, 1962, we ran out of fuel with a Warship on the Plymouth to Liverpool, via Hereford, through train, and were rescued (in quite short order, total delay not more than one hour) by a Shrewsbury Black 5, which took us on to Crewe. The guard said it was not the first time it had happened there; it was the longest Warship diagram, and newly introduced. Subsequent trips changed locos at Bristol to a Class 47.

Templecombe on an up service was a favourite place for a Warship to run dry

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2026 ==

It should be simple to mount a fuel tank on load cells and weigh its contents.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The very hot weather may also have been a factor.

Possibly - some of the fuel may have evaporated.
Aldo, fuel, like most substances, expands with heat, making it less dense, so in hot weather a full tank has less mass of fuel in hot weather (and energy content depends on mass not volume).

 

[s491]

What is the cost of diesel for train companies?

Whatever the going rate is for red diesel is at the point they buy it. Which has been very volatile recently due to Mr Trump. Its coming down to more sensible levels again.

 

[GPR]

Class 195s have 4 lights on the outside 1/4,1/2,3/4, 4/4, although another ~500 litres will go in when that 4/4 light is lit.
On the TCMS it shows the fuel level for each tank using a horizontal bar chart (can’t really describe it without drawing it)
769 has a computer screen inside the unit which will tell you how many litres the engine is filled with.
150/156 all have fuel gauges next to the tank as does tbe 769 but with them two can also see the level of fuel looking inside the tank via the filler.

 

[saismee]

It happened back in BR days
View attachment 206990

I thought of exactly this video but it talks about breakfast in the actual scene so I didn't post it. And the train getting nicked later in the video must be where all of our BTP are...

 

[mickey]

Are there any locations where it is possible (and permitted) for units to be fuelled with passengers onboard?

 

[Magrar]

Wyy are we just assuming they weren't just lying?

 

[Russel]

Well what is a driver going to do about it?

Well, the obvious answer is if the driver is aware their unit is running on fumes, they can inform their control and arrange to not proceed past the next station, avoiding the train becoming stranded in between stations or in a tunnel?

Also, I can't imagine running out of fuel does the engines any good.

 

[GPR]

What is the cost of diesel for train companies?

Enough for the Iran war to affect services and recruitment

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/27/transpennine-express-asks-labour-bailout-fuel-bills/

Although, trains get filled at depots regardless of cost, with tanks taking between 1200-2000 litres if empty.

 

[transportphoto]

Wyy are we just assuming they weren't just lying?

Why would a train operator tell someone the train hasn’t got enough diesel unless that statement is true? It’s a rather embarrassing mishap in planning terms.