Rugby Union

[richw]

The Scotland hooker attempted the conversion of the try, which was a bit of a surprise.

I got into it through my other half who plays. I quite often get roped in as a touch judge as they only do neutral referees at her level.

She's previously played for Swindon Supermarine down at Plymouth, I wonder if we got richw as the ref? (I think it was 2 years ago).

No I've only just moved to this society, so afraid it wouldn't of been me. I think Supermarine are down here on Sunday coming. I'm not reffing it but may take my daughter to watch. She has just started playing mini tag rugby and keeps getting comments that girls can't play rugby so plan showing her the ladies match.

 

[Butts]

No I've only just moved to this society, so afraid it wouldn't of been me. I think Supermarine are down here on Sunday coming. I'm not reffing it but may take my daughter to watch. She has just started playing mini tag rugby and keeps getting comments that girls can't play rugby so plan showing her the ladies match.

My Daughter actually plays Rugby - she started at St Andrews University so I'd better "butt out" of this one

 

[richw]

My Daughter actually plays Rugby - she started at St Andrews University so I'd better "butt out" of this one

I'm coaching my daughters team, at tag it's mixed gender, but I have a 50/50 split of girls and boys, that was unheard of 15 years ago.
The ladies game is certainly growing very fast.

 

[Butts]

I'm coaching my daughters team, at tag it's mixed gender, but I have a 50/50 split of girls and boys, that was unheard of 15 years ago.
The ladies game is certainly growing very fast.

Are the rules for the Ladies Game the same as those for men ?

 

[richw]

Are the rules for the Ladies Game the same as those for men ?

Yes and no. There are a few easements permitted if both teams agree from national 2 and below. The game I reffed it was played with full rules.
Also they can drop to 12 a side if short of players, this doesn't have to be in agreement, and both teams start with same numbers.

 

[J-2739]

Did anyone else see it?

I actually had to cry for SA.

Way to go Wales, though.

 

[Greenback]

I didn't bother watching Wales v SA. Mrs Greenback did, and echoed the comments by Brian Moore about this being the poorest South Africa side she has ever seen. She was much more impressed with Ireland beating the Australians.

We were both impressed with the Scarlets beating Leinster on Friday night. Recent form has saved my Scarlets shirt being put on the bonfire following a poor start to this season!

 

[richw]

I didn't bother watching Wales v SA. Mrs Greenback did, and echoed the comments by Brian Moore about this being the poorest South Africa side she has ever seen. She was much more impressed with Ireland beating the Australians.

We were both impressed with the Scarlets beating Leinster on Friday night. Recent form has saved my Scarlets shirt being put on the bonfire following a poor start to this season!

SA were awful against England and Italy. Political involvement on selection again according to my South African mate.

We also saw the new directives on dangerous play around the head implemented. Any dangerous play to the head is now a straight red card which was sent out by world rugby to all societies and RFUs. We had it rolled out last week. I was talking to the chairman of my old society and he is expecting more red cards locally as a result. From 1st January the minimum ban for head contact is increasing to 6 weeks. minimum is of course awarded for a guilty plea on a first offence.

 

[Greenback]

I don't know the reasons for SA being poor, but they undoubtedly are at the moment!

I welcome the new focus on dangerous play around the head area.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Well done England for Saturday's result.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well done England for Saturday's result.

The second half especially was good to see from an England point of view, as they were behind on points at half-time. The interception try was a joy to watch.

 

[Greenback]

I thought England would win and they didn't let me down!

 

[DarloRich]

I like Rugby in a playing and passing interest sense and the turn around of the England team from the frankly embarrassing position just a year a go to the position the team find themselves in now is nothing short of incredible.

Eddie Jones has done a remarkable job.

 

[richw]

I don't know the reasons for SA being poor, but they undoubtedly are at the moment!

I welcome the new focus on dangerous play around the head area.

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/202839. The videos in the link are good for a watch. Naturally they've used the extreme foul play!

In a further effort to eliminate dangerous or reckless contact with players’ heads, World Rugby has issued a reminder to elite referees ahead of the upcoming November internationals instructing them to be especially vigilant in this area.

Referees have been told to be strict when it comes to tackles, charges, strikes or kicks that make contact above the shoulder line and to favour firm sanctions for offenders, up to and including red cards for severe examples.

World Rugby Match Officials Selection Committee Chairman Anthony Buchanan said: “World Rugby’s number-one priority is player welfare and the laws of the game clearly state that the necks and heads of players are sacrosanct. When it comes to foul play, the game is cleaner now than ever before but, as referees, we must constantly be alert to head-high hits. By taking this strong approach, we are saying to players that tackling an opponent above the shoulder line will not go unpunished.

“In addition, while striking or kicking an opponent is never acceptable, it is a more serious offence when it involves contact with the head or neck. Even ball-carriers must be careful that they fend off tacklers legally and do not strike opponents with forearms or elbows.

“While this specific directive is going out to match officials at the elite international grade, we are reminding all unions and referee societies at every level of rugby to take note and strictly enforce current law in this important area.”

VIDEOS: EXAMPLES OF DANGEROUS PLAY THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH BY ISSUING A RED CARD

Kicking

Charging

Leading elbow

High tackle

Match officials have also been reminded to watch out for players standing ahead of the hindmost foot at rucks. Players must not obstruct opponents from moving forward.

Strict officiating is one aspect of World Rugby’s commitment to protecting the heads of players, who are now receiving unprecedented levels of care in this vital area. The success of the head injury assessment (HIA) process at the elite level has been well documented with post-match assessments confirming that no concussed player was returned to play following an HIA during Rugby World Cup 2015 and the HIA has been successfully rolled out to all World Rugby tournaments.

The advancement of technology and the heightened awareness of team medics, match officials and match-day doctors has played a critical identification role in this regard.

At community level, the education initiatives of World Rugby and its member unions around the world have been hugely successful in making players, coaches, parents and referees aware of the dangers of head injuries, what symptoms to look out for and always to employ a cautious approach. In addition, important research has been carried out and is continuing in relation to several aspects of concussion.

CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFORMATION IN RELATION TO WORLD RUGBY’S APPROACH TO CONCUSSION >>

 

[Greenback]

Eddie Jones has done a remarkable job.

I agree. I think the talent was already there, but perhaps it needed a bit more focus.

 

[richw]

Many reports in rugby circles that London Welsh have today been liquidated and will cease to exist with immediate effect, with an official announcement by the end of the week.
The reports are generated from the fact senior players have been released and a high court session for winding up is scheduled for 12/12, so little should be made from it at the moment. However a press release a fortnight ago said they'd be making redundant all players and staff on large salaries, with subject to survival use of academy players moving forward.
In November the old board all resigned with the club now being run by the Amateur arm of the club.
£20 million was spent to get to the premiership by the previous board, and £250,000 is now owed to HMRC.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In a somewhat surprise course of action, Sale Sharks have made a preliminary registration of the Castleford Tigers RFL winger Denny Solomona, despite that club being adamant no move should be made.

The player had a very successful last season the Rugby League Super League, scoring a total of 40 tries.

 

[DarloRich]

Many reports in rugby circles that London Welsh have today been liquidated and will cease to exist with immediate effect, with an official announcement by the end of the week.
The reports are generated from the fact senior players have been released and a high court session for winding up is scheduled for 12/12, so little should be made from it at the moment. However a press release a fortnight ago said they'd be making redundant all players and staff on large salaries, with subject to survival use of academy players moving forward.
In November the old board all resigned with the club now being run by the Amateur arm of the club.
£20 million was spent to get to the premiership by the previous board, and £250,000 is now owed to HMRC.

Liquidation or administration?

 

[richw]

Liquidation or administration?

Liquidation with business to cease immediately,

A look at their figures they made a £10m loss last year!

Maybe trying to beat the winding up petition on Monday at the high court.

The amateur arm of the club took over the running of the professional arm in November. The amateur arm had only £17k in its latest accounts and run their side at level 9 in the rugby pyramid.

Most of the pros are on £40-50k a year. The wealthy benefactor walked away in the summer, and the amateur board report no viable way to save the professional arm.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Shame to hear about London Welsh.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

£20 million was spent to get to the premiership by the previous board, and £250,000 is now owed to HMRC.

The last season that London Welsh spent in the Premiership must have been one of their worst-ever seasons, results wise.

 

[richw]

Press release now out on Welsh

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38241956

London Welsh: Championship club to go into liquidation
7 Dec From the sectionRugby Union
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London Weslh
London Welsh are fifth in the Championship table after 11 games
Championship club London Welsh are set to go into liquidation because of an "unsustainable" financial situation.

They were issued with a second winding-up petition by HM Revenue & Customs in October and they did not receive proposed investment.

London Welsh now hope to reform as a semi-professional side in 2017, playing at their current Old Deer Park ground.

The club can continue to play during the liquidation process, but they will be deducted 20 points.

They are due to face Doncaster in the British and Irish Cup on Saturday, but it is not yet known if the fixture will go ahead.

A Rugby Football Union spokesperson said: "The RFU are working with the club to find a way to fulfil their fixtures this season."

London Welsh will have to put together a sustainable business plan to the RFU - and raise a bond of £300,000 - in order to exist as a phoenix company.

If this is approved by the RFU then they will be able to keep their place in the Championship, or National League 1 if they are relegated.

If the plan isn't approved and they can't raise the bond, then they will drop out of the leagues altogether.

Crowds 'as low as 400'

The club had a winding-up petition dismissed in September after agreeing a takeover with a United States-based investment group, but the deal was never completed.

Founded in 1885, the club still holds the record for the most players selected in a British and Irish Lions squad, when seven were picked for the 1971 tour to New Zealand.

The Exiles were in the Premiership as recently as the 2014-15 season, when they were based at the Kassam Stadium in Oxford - but were relegated after losing all 22 matches.

"Due to a playing budget of £1.7m and gates at games numbering as low 400, the club's current business model is totally unsustainable," chairman Gareth Hawkins said.

"Having to break the news to 40 staff members yesterday was extremely difficult.

"In the New Year, it is the hope and intention of the board that London Welsh will be able to return to playing at Old Deer Park.

"However, it will first be necessary to change the club's business model to a semi-professional set-up and form a new company, and then raise £300,000 so that the club can regain a position within the Championship."

Analysis

Chris Jones, BBC Radio 5 live rugby union reporter

This is a sad day for one of Britain's oldest and most famous rugby clubs, but a salutary lesson of the harsh financial realities of professional rugby.

In hindsight, London Welsh should never have chased the Premiership dream without the backing, management or the infrastructure to be sustainable.

Premiership clubs are able to lean heavily on central revenues - especially from television - but this is not the case in the Championship, and unless clubs in the second tier have a wealthy backer they simply cannot support a professional set-up.

I should add none of the remaining board held their positions at the time this mess was created. The entire former board resigned in November, with the amateur board assuming positions at that time. London Welsh amateurs are a seperate business entity and company and should not be affected, so worse case is the remaining London Welsh will continue as a level 9 club.

 

[Greenback]

Chris Jones is right. They chased the dream, and it's basically destroyed the professional side of the club. Liquidation seems to be the only option. How sad for a famous name in rugby.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In a somewhat surprise course of action, Sale Sharks have made a preliminary registration of the Castleford Tigers RFL winger Denny Solomona, despite that club being adamant no move should be made. The player had a very successful last season the Rugby League Super League, scoring a total of 40 tries.

Now that Denny Solomona has now actually signed a three-year contract with Sale Sharks, Castleford Tigers RFL are to instigate legal action against:-
Sale Sharks
Denny Solomona
The agent representing Denny Solomona.

 

[richw]

Now that Denny Solomona has now actually signed a three-year contract with Sale Sharks, Castleford Tigers RFL are to instigate legal action against:-
Sale Sharks
Denny Solomona
The agent representing Denny Solomona.

I've always wondered with football whether employment law applies, which of courses allows an employee to resign giving the appropriate statutory notices, and take up employment elsewhere? Don't recall a previous case in rugby.

 

[DarloRich]

I've always wondered with football whether employment law applies, which of courses allows an employee to resign giving the appropriate statutory notices, and take up employment elsewhere? Don't recall a previous case in rugby.

While employment does apply the football clubs own the registration which is what is actually transferred. The payer is welcome to resign but cant play for another club without his registration. I assume this to be the case in rugby and any internal code transfers governed the same way.

I think the complicating factor for egg based sports is that union and league are different sports under different jurisdictions. I guess it would be like Wayne Rooney leaving Manchester United and joining Lancashire County Cricket Club. it is interesting!

 

[Tetchytyke]

While employment does apply the football clubs own the registration which is what is actually transferred. The payer is welcome to resign but cant play for another club without his registration. I assume this to be the case in rugby and any internal code transfers governed the same way.

In previous cases the rugby union club have been happy to pay the appropriate transfer fee to allow the code switch. It is telling that Sale Sharks have decided that this doesn't need to happen anymore. I guess that they sense just how weak the RFL is these days.

Employment law applies, but there can still be a breach of contract issue between the club and the player. Many employment contracts prevent senior people from moving to a direct competitor, and if someone breaks the contract they can expect to be sued for significant damages. I hope they make an example of Solomona and it costs him millions.

 

[richw]

Many employment contracts prevent senior people from moving to a direct competitor.

Definitely not the case here, as he's moved different sports.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Aviva Premiership

Sale Sharks 23...Bristol 24

Despite Sale leading 15-10 at half-time, the recent malaise that has affected Sale in terms of match consolidation saw Bristol record a second win of the season. Sale's sudden plummet downwards in the league needs matters taking in hand as a matter of urgency by those charged to deal with such matters.


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Aviva Premiership

Harlequins 29...Sale Sharks 26

Sale outscored Harlequins by three tries to two, with their recent signing Solomona from the League code scoring two of these, but as often is the case, it was conversion of penalties that prove the decisive factor. Sale, to their credit, pushed Harlequins all the way in the second half.

With regards to matters after 13 games played in the Aviva Premiership, a most worrying nine point gap has opened up between the teams in ninth and tenth positions. Sale currently occupy that tenth position.

 

[richw]

I fear for Sale, as Bristol, Newcastle, and Worcester are all improving