The GPO executive who masterminded the demise of post by rail promptly resigned as soon as he had done the deed.He thought that rail was old fashioned and favoured all post being transported long distance by air.There was a suspicion that he was hand in glove with the air lobby think that the post has slowed up since road took over.
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Aictos
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As far as I'm aware the 325s no longer have the 3rd equipment ie the shoes due to one simple reason, they wouldn't be cleared north of Biggleswade if they kept the shoes as I'm sure they have the same 3rd equipment as the 313s, 319s which are NOT retractable unlike more modern designs.
Plus if they kept the shoes, it be uneconomic to keep them when they weren't being used at all as they only see use on OHLE routes these days much like London Midland's 350/1s are 3rd rail capable but have the shoes removed.
Plus if they kept the shoes, it be uneconomic to keep them when they weren't being used at all as they only see use on OHLE routes these days much like London Midland's 350/1s are 3rd rail capable but have the shoes removed.
The Royal Mail's decision to cease using TPO's and to focus on air and road distribution networks was made for a number of reasons, not just that railways were old fashioned!
The fact is that mail has been transported by air within the UK for a long time. Royal Mail, faced with declining traffic and increased competition has had to make changes to its business. They have concentrated mail processin gon fewer sites, often constructed on large sites away from their traditional city centre, near a railway station operation. Some of these were rail connected, but I imagine the decision taken was a business one. The cost and practically of paying for a rail connection could not be justified.
I suspect the case for moving a small amount of mail between hubs might have stood up better, as has turned out to be the case between London and Glasgow. But the spokes would not justify a train in itself, and there have security concerns over the carriage of mail in ordinary trains ever since the demise of guards vans. This is even more impractical with the reduction in the use of mail bags/ The loading of containers of boxed letters on to road vehicles is far easier and quicker than trying to do the same thing on to a 158.
The demise of rail is a sad reflection of change sin scoiety. The railways first replaced horse transportation by simply putting a stagecoach on to the rails. We then reached a point, thanks to increases in population, the introduction of cheap stamps, and the lack of competition. that trains became the only way to move large numbers of letters and packets around the country.
Now that competition is there, and the pattern of mail has changed, rail is no longer competitive.
The fact is that mail has been transported by air within the UK for a long time. Royal Mail, faced with declining traffic and increased competition has had to make changes to its business. They have concentrated mail processin gon fewer sites, often constructed on large sites away from their traditional city centre, near a railway station operation. Some of these were rail connected, but I imagine the decision taken was a business one. The cost and practically of paying for a rail connection could not be justified.
I suspect the case for moving a small amount of mail between hubs might have stood up better, as has turned out to be the case between London and Glasgow. But the spokes would not justify a train in itself, and there have security concerns over the carriage of mail in ordinary trains ever since the demise of guards vans. This is even more impractical with the reduction in the use of mail bags/ The loading of containers of boxed letters on to road vehicles is far easier and quicker than trying to do the same thing on to a 158.
The demise of rail is a sad reflection of change sin scoiety. The railways first replaced horse transportation by simply putting a stagecoach on to the rails. We then reached a point, thanks to increases in population, the introduction of cheap stamps, and the lack of competition. that trains became the only way to move large numbers of letters and packets around the country.
Now that competition is there, and the pattern of mail has changed, rail is no longer competitive.
ExRes
Established Member
As I haven't seem or driven one for 13 years I'm not in a position to comment on the present rules regarding 325 shoes, what I can say without fear of contradiction is that 325 shoegear WAS retractable and that the units were passed to travel anywhere, AC, DC or diesel hauled, as for north of Biggleswade, Mr Railtrack never stopped me when I was driving them to Doncaster Railnet
At some stage around 1999/2000 some units did have their shoegear removed which caused the odd problem or two when good old EWS Control rostered one of those units on the Tonbridge Railnet job ..........
EbbwJunction1
Established Member
Yes, I used to see it loading on Cardiff Central quite often.
I'm not sure whether I actually travelled on it, though. This is because there was another passenger train to Newport which left just before the mail train, so I probably caught that one more than likely.
Aictos
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argh, I thought they had unretractable shoegear I bow down to your superior knowledge of them.
ExRes
Established Member
Gawd blimey guv, nobody ever accused me of having superior knowledge before ........ 
TheGrew
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Am I right in thinking that the 325s don't operate under their own power any more? If so why?
Beveridges
Established Member
325's certainly do operate under their own power still!
They do now, but they did seem to go through a phase of only being hauled by various locomotives.
33056
Established Member
The 325s did get their motor cars removed for refurbishment around 5 or 6 years ago so were being dragged round as multiples of three car units but they rarely get hauled these days.
High Dyke
Established Member
And talk of the devil...i'm watching one pass.
33056
Established Member
Shouldn't have opened my big mouth about no drags recently 
Just found out that 1E06 has failed and will need the services of the KX Thunderbird.....
Just found out that 1E06 has failed and will need the services of the KX Thunderbird.....
Skimpot flyer
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Do Royal Mail actually OWN these 325 units? An article in Rail magazine implied that they do 
ExRes
Established Member
They certainly did own them and they were only ever operated by Res & EWS on behalf of Royal Mail, I can't see that situation having changed but I'm here to be proved wrong
I believe that if these units had been sold by RM then they would have had the conversion work done to turn them into passenger units long ago
I believe that if these units had been sold by RM then they would have had the conversion work done to turn them into passenger units long ago
Beveridges
Established Member
If and when royal mail traffic rises enough to overstretch the 325 fleet we will see loco hauled sets again! I can't wait
ash39
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The additional xmas mail trains on the WCML were formed of cargowagons hauled by a loco. Whether that's suitable longer term, or whether the wagons are available, is another matter.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
ExRes is correct: The unit remain owned by Royal Mail.Do Royal Mail actually OWN these 325 units? An article in Rail magazine implied that they do
A close relative worked on the Glasgow - London TPO from the mid 1950s until retirement in 1985.
The Scottish crews were from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Perth.
My memory was Glasgow had two trains, the London train and an earlier/later two coach TPO that ran to Carlisle.
Think further back there was a Glasgow-Bristol TPO.
The entire Scottish TPO trains met up at Carstairs and became on one train.
Same in reverse in the early hours.
And their was various variations depending on staffing levels ie on a Saturday morning you met find a couple of the Glasgow crew stuck on the Perth/Aberdeen section and being let off at Coatbridge Central and a local train home.
That would entail something like a 16 hour shift.
Their was also the midweek stop over in Crewe for some of the Scottish crew returning the next night from Birmingham.
Take it's why i ended up with football programmes from Villa, Wolves etc.
London crews going North had the delights of Carlisle to enjoy.
There were claims that some workers had two families, one in Carlisle and one in London, urban legend claim the families found out when the TPO worker dropped dead.
All in all, it was never a job for those who like to finish and be home for the tea time news.
Ps, the TPOs must have ran for something like 150 years most of it 7 nights a week.
High Dyke
Established Member
I forgot to mention that... It passed me 282 minutes late.Shouldn't have opened my big mouth about no drags recently
Just found out that 1E06 has failed and will need the services of the KX Thunderbird.....
I used the on-train facility to send last-minute stuff to South Wales (scripts for the BBC in Swansea). These days it would be e-mailed of course.
Remember travelling on the northbound train one night. We stopped at Pontypool or Abergavenny (can't remember which), there was a huge bang and the train was wreathed in steam. Steam heat pipe had burst. Boy was I cold by the time we got to Crewe!
Certainly for some business mail posting a letter directly through the TPO mail box at Glasgow Central at 7.30 pm was in theory as quick as an e-mail.
The letter would be in a London office when they turned up at their office next morning.
Unless the workers in London bothered looking at their e-mail all night long an e-mail in theory isn't any quicker.
The letter would be in a London office when they turned up at their office next morning.
Unless the workers in London bothered looking at their e-mail all night long an e-mail in theory isn't any quicker.
EbbwJunction1
Established Member
I know, I know ..... apologies if they are slightly off topic, but here are the words of the great poem:
"This is the Night Mail crossing the border,
Bringing the cheque and the postal order,
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor,
The shop at the corner and the girl next door.
Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb:
The gradient's against her, but she's on time.
Past cotton-grass and moorland boulder
Shovelling white steam over her shoulder,
Snorting noisily as she passes
Silent miles of wind-bent grasses.
Birds turn their heads as she approaches,
Stare from the bushes at her blank-faced coaches.
Sheep-dogs cannot turn her course;
They slumber on with paws across.
In the farm she passes no one wakes,
But a jug in the bedroom gently shakes.
Dawn freshens, the climb is done.
Down towards Glasgow she descends
Towards the steam tugs yelping down the glade of cranes,
Towards the fields of apparatus, the furnaces
Set on the dark plain like gigantic chessmen.
All Scotland waits for her:
In the dark glens, beside the pale-green sea lochs
Men long for news.
Letters of thanks, letters from banks,
Letters of joy from the girl and the boy,
Receipted bills and invitations
To inspect new stock or visit relations,
And applications for situations
And timid lovers' declarations
And gossip, gossip from all the nations,
News circumstantial, news financial,
Letters with holiday snaps to enlarge in,
Letters with faces scrawled in the margin,
Letters from uncles, cousins, and aunts,
Letters to Scotland from the South of France,
Letters of condolence to Highlands and Lowlands
Notes from overseas to Hebrides
Written on paper of every hue,
The pink, the violet, the white and the blue,
The chatty, the catty, the boring, adoring,
The cold and official and the heart's outpouring,
Clever, stupid, short and long,
The typed and the printed and the spelt all wrong.
Thousands are still asleep
Dreaming of terrifying monsters,
Or of friendly tea beside the band at Cranston's or Crawford's:
Asleep in working Glasgow, asleep in well-set Edinburgh,
Asleep in granite Aberdeen,
They continue their dreams,
And shall wake soon and long for letters,
And none will hear the postman's knock
Without a quickening of the heart,
For who can bear to feel himself forgotten?"
(W H Auden)
"This is the Night Mail crossing the border,
Bringing the cheque and the postal order,
Letters for the rich, letters for the poor,
The shop at the corner and the girl next door.
Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb:
The gradient's against her, but she's on time.
Past cotton-grass and moorland boulder
Shovelling white steam over her shoulder,
Snorting noisily as she passes
Silent miles of wind-bent grasses.
Birds turn their heads as she approaches,
Stare from the bushes at her blank-faced coaches.
Sheep-dogs cannot turn her course;
They slumber on with paws across.
In the farm she passes no one wakes,
But a jug in the bedroom gently shakes.
Dawn freshens, the climb is done.
Down towards Glasgow she descends
Towards the steam tugs yelping down the glade of cranes,
Towards the fields of apparatus, the furnaces
Set on the dark plain like gigantic chessmen.
All Scotland waits for her:
In the dark glens, beside the pale-green sea lochs
Men long for news.
Letters of thanks, letters from banks,
Letters of joy from the girl and the boy,
Receipted bills and invitations
To inspect new stock or visit relations,
And applications for situations
And timid lovers' declarations
And gossip, gossip from all the nations,
News circumstantial, news financial,
Letters with holiday snaps to enlarge in,
Letters with faces scrawled in the margin,
Letters from uncles, cousins, and aunts,
Letters to Scotland from the South of France,
Letters of condolence to Highlands and Lowlands
Notes from overseas to Hebrides
Written on paper of every hue,
The pink, the violet, the white and the blue,
The chatty, the catty, the boring, adoring,
The cold and official and the heart's outpouring,
Clever, stupid, short and long,
The typed and the printed and the spelt all wrong.
Thousands are still asleep
Dreaming of terrifying monsters,
Or of friendly tea beside the band at Cranston's or Crawford's:
Asleep in working Glasgow, asleep in well-set Edinburgh,
Asleep in granite Aberdeen,
They continue their dreams,
And shall wake soon and long for letters,
And none will hear the postman's knock
Without a quickening of the heart,
For who can bear to feel himself forgotten?"
(W H Auden)
Thanks, St Rollox, that's very interesting.
By the time I started with Royal Mail in 1988, the TPO's weren't running on a Saturday night.
As regards the old South Wales TPO. The Swansea crew went up to London as passengers on a Mondya evening and worked back on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights. The London crews did the same thing in reverse!
The trains previously ran to and from Carmarthen. There were still a couple of men on the train from there in the early 1990's. Apparently their conditions of service meant that once they got on they could stay on the TPO's as long as they were still running from Swansea!
How did the train companies fit in engineering works with 7 day a week working or would there be lots of diversions?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
33056
Established Member
Of course 1M80 this evening is now being dragged back south which will keep some people amused at silly-o'clock in the morning shuffling the pack so it can get back to Crewe with a bit of help from a couple of friends........
High Dyke
Established Member
Indeed...it bumbled passed me in the fog about 20 minutes ago.
The Saturday night train was gone by the end of the 1960s.
The Sunday night went on for another decade or so.
Funnily enough i don't remember any hold ups being mentioned.
Vaguely remember the odd Saturday return almost at noon but that's twice in 25 years.
It would take a few years for the Beeching cuts to break in so probably most trains were shunted all over the place.
The TPOs were already being cutback by the 1980s (most of the manufacturing base was gone) with less mail moving by train.
Even when the Glasgow TPO was running a Royal Mail flight left Glasgow every night for Manchester Ringway.
Yep they had a few planes as well.
Any bags left over or late went on the midnight British Airways flight to London.
That's 30 years before the first e-mail was sent.
Btw, the wages on the TPO were rubbish till about the late 1970s.
Same goes for most workers wages back then.
well, if we're taking this little wander
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