Royal Mail to cease using trains

[The_Train]

Confirm sighting by myself as it being 37510 + 325013 325006 (not 007)

Do we know which carriage from 006 went to EMR in Glasgow please?

 

[Ewan M]

Do we know which carriage from 006 went to EMR in Glasgow please?

Pantograph coach by the looks of it

 

[swt_passenger]

Pantograph coach by the looks of it

Post #319 originally noted it was the 3 motor/pantograph coaches from 6/7/13 that had gone to EMR Glasgow.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Do we know which carriage from 006 went to EMR in Glasgow please?

It is understood to have been the motor coach 68345 that moved by road.

Hard to find a video of today's 5Q76 move where the individual vehicle numbers are clearly visible, but appears to have been 68310 / 68365 / 68311 from that unit

(edit - looking at the roofline of the vehicles moved today from 325006 + 325013, the pantograph coach is clearly the one missing)

 

[mailbyrail]

Is there actually any such thing as a moral element any more? The best use would have been to a) hold sub postmasters before shipping them off to prison or b) hold the cash that RM stole from said sub postmasters

Knowing how many commentators on this site expect non-expect passengers and customers to get rail-related facts totally correct, can we expect the same accuracy when regular forum members comment on non-rail matters.

Royal Mail carry the post, they do not ship sub-postmasters off to prison, Royal Mail have not stolen any cash from sub-postmasters.
The Post Office is wholly owned by the government, they use subpostmasters to run their business. The Post Office contracted with Fujitsu to develop and install the Horizon system under instructions from their sole shareholder - the British Government. The Post Office bring prosecutions themselves, similarly to the railway.
The Post Office have not carried mail by rail, road or any other means since Royal Mail was established and privatised in 2013.
Royal Mail was given trains by the government as part of the complex arrangements to privatise the company when it was set up in 2013. Th company now operates in the competitive private sector, answering to its shareholders in accordance with company law.

 

[Grumpy]

Royal Mail was given trains by the government as part of the complex arrangements to privatise the company when it was set up in 2013. Th company now operates in the competitive private sector, answering to its shareholders in accordance with company law.

Surely Royal Mail acquired the trains from new, before privatisation?

 

[Ewan M]

Those who don’t like seeing trains being shredded, look away now……….


From Today’s Railway UK on X:
“More Class 325s for scrap: The remaining three coaches each from 325006 & 325013 were hauled from Mossend direct to Unimetals, Newport today by 37510. They are seen after arrival along with the remains of one of the sets that arrived for scrap earlier this week.©️ Stephen Batty”

x.com

x.com

 

[Steve Harris]

Is there actually any such thing as a moral element any more? The best use would have been to a) hold sub postmasters before shipping them off to prison or b) hold the cash that RM stole from said sub postmasters

Knowing how many commentators on this site expect non-expect passengers and customers to get rail-related facts totally correct, can we expect the same accuracy when regular forum members comment on non-rail matters.

Royal Mail carry the post, they do not ship sub-postmasters off to prison, Royal Mail have not stolen any cash from sub-postmasters.
The Post Office is wholly owned by the government, they use subpostmasters to run their business. The Post Office contracted with Fujitsu to develop and install the Horizon system under instructions from their sole shareholder - the British Government. The Post Office bring prosecutions themselves, similarly to the railway.
The Post Office have not carried mail by rail, road or any other means since Royal Mail was established and privatised in 2013.
Royal Mail was given trains by the government as part of the complex arrangements to privatise the company when it was set up in 2013. Th company now operates in the competitive private sector, answering to its shareholders in accordance with company law.

I'm curious about the part I've emboldened, as Companies House says something completely different. Perhaps you can quote the source were you got the 2013 date from ??

 

[Adrian Barr]

Time for an updated list of Class 325 locations:

325001 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325002 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325003 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 6Z36 04/11/24)
325004 Crewe Electric Depot
325005 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325006 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 5Q76 07/11/24) except 68345, reported as moved by road from Mossend to EMR Glasgow, see posts #319 / #320)
325007 Mossend (except 68346, reported as moved by road to EMR Kingsbury, see posts #319 / #320)
325008 Crewe Electric Depot
325009 Newport AD Junction Yard (arrived 4Z71 31/10/24)
325011 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325012 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 6Z36 04/11/24)
325013 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 5Q76 07/11/24) except 68352, reported as moved by road from Mossend to EMR Glasgow, see posts #319 / #320)
325014 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325015 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325016 Crewe Electric Depot

N.B. Unit 325010 was scrapped in 2012, except for motor coach 68349 which replaced 68348 in 325009 (vehicle 68348 from 325009 was also scrapped).

The three units at Crewe could be moving to Newport next week - keep an eye out for a 4Z71 schedule to AD Junction yard for Tuesday.

This photo by Ben Mackay taken at Mossend on 29th October is interesting: https://www.flickr.com/photos/beano3104/54105471448/
It shows 325006 and 325013 in road 13 in the down yard, and 325007 in road 14, each reduced to 3-car formation. This fits in with the report of the motor coaches being taken away by road (see post #319).
Post #320 quotes a tweet by Richard Clinnick mentioning that "vehicles" from 325007 had been moved by road to EMR Kingsbury, but given that this photo was taken the day after the tweet, it would appear to confirm that just the motor coaches from the three units were taken away by road, with 325006 / 325013 / 325007 then being re-formed into 3-car formations.
325006 and 325013 moved to Newport Docks on the 5Q76 today, so I assume the 3 remaining vehicles of 325007 remain at Mossend pending movement.

325007 has been stored at Mossend since August. The caption to this photo of it by Adrian Nicholls is informative: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/53912940871/

325002+ 325013 awaiting the chop at Newport. (Unknown photographer)

That photo (post #347) must have been of 325012 + 325003, which were tripped in from AD Junction yard as 6Z36 on Monday

 

[Class15]

Those who don’t like seeing trains being shredded, look away now……….


From Today’s Railway UK on X:
“More Class 325s for scrap: The remaining three coaches each from 325006 & 325013 were hauled from Mossend direct to Unimetals, Newport today by 37510. They are seen after arrival along with the remains of one of the sets that arrived for scrap earlier this week.©️ Stephen Batty”

x.com

x.com

So sad. They were scrapped ahead of time. If they had been replaced at Royal Mail, it wouldn’t be so painful to view that image.

 

[Towers]

Surely an argument for one driving car to enter the NRM here. Also a strong argument for one to end up at the postal museum, but of course that would be rather embarrasing for Royal Mail.

I agree with the view that, whilst in any sensible world these should clearly be in use, if they are to be cast aside then their age makes them entirely reasonable candidates for scrapping, sadly. They are, after all, MK3 EMUs, of which there are plenty currently sat around the place and probably available very cheaply to any takers. I’d imagine it isn’t beyond reason to suggest that the ROSCOs who own other similar fleets may have undercut whatever price and ongoing running costs the 325s would have come at to any potential new owner.

 

[Doomotron]

What is Varamis’ target market in that case?

I said barely exists, not non-existent. Varamis have very low traffic and there isn't much hope of it increasing by any significant margin in the future. The market for large-scale post trains died long ago, before I was even born. If the 321s weren't available (and presumably for peanuts) I doubt Varamis would have started in the first place.

And even if there was a huge need for post trains, the ideal trains for it are not 30-year-old Mark 3 EMUs which were woefully outdated when they were built. I have no idea why they decided on a Class 319 continuation run when the 365s had already been built, but hey ho. People are making this out to be a crisis, like they did when DB scrapped a few Class 90s that had been withdrawn years prior and have little reason to exist on a modern network. The same can be said about the 325s. In the grand scheme of things, none of this matters.

 

[50002Superb]

Time for an updated list of Class 325 locations:

325001 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325002 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325003 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 6Z36 04/11/24)
325004 Crewe Electric Depot
325005 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325006 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 5Q76 07/11/24) except 68345, reported as moved by road from Mossend to EMR Glasgow, see posts #319 / #320)
325007 Mossend (except 68346, reported as moved by road to EMR Kingsbury, see posts #319 / #320)
325008 Crewe Electric Depot
325009 Newport AD Junction Yard (arrived 4Z71 31/10/24)
325011 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325012 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 6Z36 04/11/24)
325013 Newport Docks, Unimetals (arrived 5Q76 07/11/24) except 68352, reported as moved by road from Mossend to EMR Glasgow, see posts #319 / #320)
325014 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325015 Willesden (inside mail terminal, see post #345)
325016 Crewe Electric Depot

N.B. Unit 325010 was scrapped in 2012, except for motor coach 68349 which replaced 68348 in 325009 (vehicle 68348 from 325009 was also scrapped).

The three units at Crewe could be moving to Newport next week - keep an eye out for a 4Z71 schedule to AD Junction yard for Tuesday.

This photo by Ben Mackay taken at Mossend on 29th October is interesting: https://www.flickr.com/photos/beano3104/54105471448/
It shows 325006 and 325013 in road 13 in the down yard, and 325007 in road 14, each reduced to 3-car formation. This fits in with the report of the motor coaches being taken away by road (see post #319).
Post #320 quotes a tweet by Richard Clinnick mentioning that "vehicles" from 325007 had been moved by road to EMR Kingsbury, but given that this photo was taken the day after the tweet, it would appear to confirm that just the motor coaches from the three units were taken away by road, with 325006 / 325013 / 325007 then being re-formed into 3-car formations.
325006 and 325013 moved to Newport Docks on the 5Q76 today, so I assume the 3 remaining vehicles of 325007 remain at Mossend pending movement.

325007 has been stored at Mossend since August. The caption to this photo of it by Adrian Nicholls is informative: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/53912940871/


That photo (post #347) must have been of 325012 + 325003, which were tripped in from AD Junction yard as 6Z36 on Monday

It is really appreciated when you do these comprehensive updates

 

[Stampy]

Sounds perfectly like Royal Mail to me

ANYTHING with more than 10 years of service - they want to get rid of it....

 

[Mat17]

I thought all mail traffic had stopped decades ago (2003?). I remember reading about all the 325s going into storage. I hadn't realised they'd come back!

 

[zwk500]

I thought all mail traffic had stopped decades ago (2003?). I remember reading about all the 325s going into storage. I hadn't realised they'd come back!

They returned on a limited set of routes quite quickly - Willesden to Warrington & Shieldmuir, and Willesden to Low Fell. There may have been a couple of other routes at Christmas but they quickly dropped off.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

They returned on a limited set of routes quite quickly - Willesden to Warrington & Shieldmuir, and Willesden to Low Fell. There may have been a couple of other routes at Christmas but they quickly dropped off.

Not true. They were also in use on runs between Shieldmuir and the so-called Midlands Super Hub at Daventry

 

[Class15]

Not true. They were also in use on runs between Shieldmuir and the so-called Midlands Super Hub at Daventry

Only in the last year! @zwk500 is quite correct.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The 325s that went to Newport are currently awaiting onward movement from Newport ADJ to Unimetals. Going by Google Maps, it’s basically the same site as Sims.

Should have gone to Sims but they didn't answer, so they were left with a neighbour.

I said barely exists, not non-existent. Varamis have very low traffic and there isn't much hope of it increasing by any significant margin in the future. The market for large-scale post trains died long ago, before I was even born. If the 321s weren't available (and presumably for peanuts) I doubt Varamis would have started in the first place.

And even if there was a huge need for post trains, the ideal trains for it are not 30-year-old Mark 3 EMUs which were woefully outdated when they were built. I have no idea why they decided on a Class 319 continuation run when the 365s had already been built, but hey ho. People are making this out to be a crisis, like they did when DB scrapped a few Class 90s that had been withdrawn years prior and have little reason to exist on a modern network. The same can be said about the 325s. In the grand scheme of things, none of this matters.

Exactly. Every time I've seen Varamis trains at Birmingham Intl or Crewe, they've been substantially empty. The problem with passengers units is the windows, and they also seem to make the mistake of leaving the interior lights on when I've seen the 321s, making it noticeable how lightly loaded they are.

 

[D7672]

3 cars of 012 left,recent pair been stripped out,more Monday

 

[Nym]

We'll just have to see what happens when the FLEX units currently being converted to freight get to their new users.

Exactly. Every time I've seen Varamis trains at Birmingham Intl or Crewe, they've been substantially empty. The problem with passengers units is the windows, and they also seem to make the mistake of leaving the interior lights on when I've seen the 321s, making it noticeable how lightly loaded they are.

 

[Stampy]

Not true. They were also in use on runs between Shieldmuir and the so-called Midlands Super Hub at Daventry

Indeed, having to be hauled by a shunter as Royal Mail build their Super-Hub () a long way from the "overhead knitting"

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 4Z36 0632 Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 11/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 4Z36 0632 departure from Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 11/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 4Z71 2122 Crewe T.M.D. (E) to Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. | 12/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 4Z71 2122 departure from Crewe T.M.D. (E) to Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. on 12/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 4Z36 1042 Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 13/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 4Z36 1042 departure from Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 13/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 4Z36 1042 Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 15/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 4Z36 1042 departure from Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 15/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Ewan M]

Realtime Trains | 4Z36 0632 Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 11/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 4Z36 0632 departure from Alexandra Dock Jn. T.C. to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 11/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

325009’s final journey is near

 

[The_Train]

Should have gone to Sims but they didn't answer, so they were left with a neighbour.

Did they just throw the item over the neighbour's fence as well?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Did they just throw the item over the neighbour's fence as well?

Even though I work for RM, that made me laugh
But it’s more likely the intended recipient would have to Yodle over the fence

 

[43096]

People are making this out to be a crisis, like they did when DB scrapped a few Class 90s that had been withdrawn years prior and have little reason to exist on a modern network.

A modern network would have a far greater route mileage electrified for which electric locos would be needed. Add to that, DB (and its predecessors) non-use of electric traction is unforgivable.

 

[DBS92042]

325009’s final journey is near

At least according to RTT, 325009 hasn't made it to Unimetals today as 4Z36 was cancelled

 

[Ewan M]

At least according to RTT, 325009 hasn't made it to Unimetals today as 4Z36 was cancelled

Will probably be down to another doomed unit headed for Newport today from Ilford

 

[12LDA28C]

A modern network would have a far greater route mileage electrified for which electric locos would be needed. Add to that, DB (and its predecessors) non-use of electric traction is unforgivable.

If you ran a commercial operation, would you use electric locomotives if doing so cost more than running diesels, purely because it's better for the environment? Especially if your customers were not prepared to pay more for AC traction so you had to suck up the additional cost yourself? Seems like a pretty straightforward commercial decision to me.