route lines when training, etc

[carlejo]

I just wondered that when training(if I'm lucky enough to get that far) do trainees constantly work on the same line, to learn the signal point areas, braking points,(even when qualified) etc or is it case where you learn a few routes in case you could be needed on more than one.

thanks
Carlejo

 

[LCC106]

During my time with my minder I went wherever he went basically. I had to learn 1 main route like the back of my hand, but the minder told me where to shut off / brake etc. on that and all other routes. Of course, the more you drive over a route the less instruction you will need. On passing out, I started to learn the other routes in my link by observing others, having a brief from a manager then driving with others observing me and answering any questions. I suppose it depends which TOC you work for, how many routes they cover and the length of route at the end of the day. For instance, I have a friend who drives the same high speed route day in, day out.

 

[Beveridges]

I know that with my TOC (Northern) Mainline Drivers pass out on just 3 to 5 routes before they go Driving on their own. After they have done at least 60 turns (this is the minimum) they then can go route learning again to add another route, provided the company has the spare staff to cover the driver to go back route learning for a few weeks. On passing out on another route, then they go back to productive driving again for a while before going back route learning again to add yet another route to their card. Eventually, in some cases taking over 3 years, they eventually sign every route in their link.
It takes a lot of training to route learn. It takes a qualified Driver something like 3 weeks worth of training to pass out on a (long) 40-mile route. For a trainee you can double that, which is why they only pass out on 3-5 routes initially, most of those routes being local, short-distance all shacks stopping routes.

 

[ee el oh]

Just to add to the initial question on this thread, what exactly does route learning entail? what are all the details of that route that have to be learned.
Thx.

 

[Scaramanga]

Gradients, speed limits, signal positions, track layout, stations, crossings etc.

 

[455driver]

And you have to adhere to all restrictions plus stop at the stations etc in the daylight, in the dark, in the fog etc, if you rely on seeing it you are in trouble.

 

[Dave1987]

Just to add to the initial question on this thread, what exactly does route learning entail? what are all the details of that route that have to be learned.
Thx.

You have a route exam every year in which you will get a questionnaire on the routes you sign. An example on a question is something like you are given a picture of a stop signal and the question is where is the next stop signal. The trick is is that the next signal might be a distant not a stop signal and the one after is a stop signal. This tests to see if you do know your routes. Other questions are like: this is signal c1164 what different routes can be given and what indication would appear in the theatre box.

Stuff like that. As TDK has said before route knowledge is king.

 

[TDK]

I just wondered that when training(if I'm lucky enough to get that far) do trainees constantly work on the same line, to learn the signal point areas, braking points,(even when qualified) etc or is it case where you learn a few routes in case you could be needed on more than one.

thanks
Carlejo

Many depots have what they call a starter link and this link has just the core routes within it. When you do your handling you will need to do a certain amount of hours in daylight and darkness on your core routes, this will be done with an instructor and a good instructor will know ehat you need to know and coach you on the routes as well as the handling of the train.

 

[carlejo]

Thanks guys

 

[ee el oh]

Thanks for the replies to my question folks, here's one more.
Is the route learning for a Conductor exactly the same as for a Driver
or do conductors have a less in depth route learning.?

 

[Rugd1022]

Thanks for the replies to my question folks, here's one more.
Is the route learning for a Conductor exactly the same as for a Driver
or do conductors have a less in depth route learning.?

A conductor is a driver who is simply using his / her own route knowledge to guide another driver over a route he / she does not sign

We all have to have the same standard of route knowledge! For me, it's one of the most satisfying aspects of the job, and my route card is quite extensive, I sign three seperate routes into London, most of the West Mids area and onwards to Worcester, Cheltenham and Gloucester, up as far as Crewe and various other bits in between.... I'm never bored at work!

 

[westcoaster]

A conductor is a driver who is simply using his / her own route knowledge to guide another driver over a route he / she does not sign

We all have to have the same standard of route knowledge! For me, it's one of the most satisfying aspects of the job, and my route card is quite extensive, I sign three seperate routes into London, most of the West Mids area and onwards to Worcester, Cheltenham and Gloucester, up as far as Crewe and various other bits in between.... I'm never bored at work!

oops I think he means in the ticket sence not route conducting.

 

[Cab2Cab]

A conductor is a driver who is simply using his / her own route knowledge to guide another driver over a route he / she does not sign

We all have to have the same standard of route knowledge! For me, it's one of the most satisfying aspects of the job, and my route card is quite extensive, I sign three seperate routes into London, most of the West Mids area and onwards to Worcester, Cheltenham and Gloucester, up as far as Crewe and various other bits in between.... I'm never bored at work!

oops I think he means in the ticket sence not route conducting.

lol, four candles.............fork handles

 

[W230]

I know that with my TOC (Northern) Mainline Drivers pass out on just 3 to 5 routes before they go Driving on their own. After they have done at least 60 turns (this is the minimum) they then can go route learning again to add another route, provided the company has the spare staff to cover the driver to go back route learning for a few weeks. On passing out on another route, then they go back to productive driving again for a while before going back route learning again to add yet another route to their card. Eventually, in some cases taking over 3 years, they eventually sign every route in their link.

Interesting. Slightly different at my TOC where we don't pass out until easily 12 months+ with us the signing all routes and diversions at this point.

 

[Tomnick]

oops I think he means in the ticket sence not route conducting.

Certainly shows the downside of all these fancy titles for those in the grade of Guard .

 

[notadriver]

A driver can 'conduct' another driver over a route they sign already. Unfortunately I don't think a conductor/guard can do the same.

 

[Rugd1022]

oops I think he means in the ticket sence not route conducting.

Oops - stick, wrong end of, grabbed in haste!

 

[Beveridges]

Thanks for the replies to my question folks, here's one more.
Is the route learning for a Conductor exactly the same as for a Driver
or do conductors have a less in depth route learning.?

It is a lot less in depth, for example the only signals they have to know are the ones at stations. But Conductors who pass out in my TOC (Northern) generally have learned at least 3+ times as many routes as newly passed out Drivers.
New Conductors sign nearly everything straight away, new Drivers only sign a small fraction of the routes at somewhere like Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly or Blackpool for example.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Certainly shows the downside of all these fancy titles for those in the grade of Guard .

Definitely! I get fed up of this tbh. In the rule book, a driver is a driver, not a 'train manager'. A guard is a guard, not a 'conductor', 'senior conductor' or a 'train manager'. A pilotman is someone who wears a red armband in connection with single line working etc, not someone who 'conducts' a fellow driver over a route they don't sign.

 

[Beveridges]

I get tired of this sort of thing. A Maintenance Depot Driver is also a Shunt Driver, MDD Driver, Depot Driver, Driver Operator, Fueller / Driver, Level 3 Team Member and countless other names that different TOC's have come up with for this role.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, it's one thing coming up with all these funny titles for use within the company, and for passenger (sorry, customer...) facing stuff, but the Rule Book refers to (for example) the duties of the Guard, so what am I supposed to do (as a Signalman...sorry, Signaller) if someone tells me that they're the "Customer Services Team Leader" or something equally daft-sounding? Certainly not something that I fancy trying to interpret in an emergency.

I think it was on these forums, not so long ago, that someone told the story of some confusion between the "Train Manager" on a charter train (representing the tour promoter) and the Guard (the man in the van) which resulted in the latter being left behind.

 

[Dieseldriver]

IIRC, District Line drivers are specifically told to make themselves known as 'driver' rather than 'train operator' when on Network Rail metals.