Rotala / Diamond Bus (North West)

[37114]

I don’t get why people would ‘jump ship’ as there terms and conditions would be covered under TUPE, unless they stayed with first.

Pensions aren't and besides there will be more than just T&Cs to consider, e.g. what is the company culture, will they invest in training, will they invest in new kit? Will they be looking to change shifts? I don't know Rotala so can't comment if the above apply here but from others posts it suggests that they don't have a strong "good place to work" reputation, (irrespective of if that is true or not).

 

[Robertj21a]

I think many across the industry consider Rotala to be generally of a 'poorer quality' than most others. Whether or not that is true, or just perceived, can be partly subjective.

 

[Alexbus12]

Jumped ship where to?

Operators across GM, many will just not work for Rotala..

 

[daodao]

Operators across GM, many will just not work for Rotala..

Please explain what is wrong with Rotala, who operate many of the local subsidised services near to me?

 

[cnjb8]

Please explain what is wrong with Rotala, who operate many of the local subsidised services near to me?

They just have a reputation for poor timekeeping, quality of fleet, driver conditions etc...

 

[507021]

Reported elsewhere are the acquisition of a further three new StreetDecks for Bolton in addition to StreetLite SK17 HHL from Wrightbus. I understand the latter is also based at Bolton depot.

 

[Goldfish62]

They just have a reputation for poor timekeeping, quality of fleet, driver conditions etc...

Not a nice outfit to work for. They don't appear to treat their managers well, so that then trickles down the ranks.

 

[Rod Harrison]

Reported elsewhere are the acquisition of a further three new StreetDecks for Bolton in addition to StreetLite SK17 HHL from Wrightbus. I understand the latter is also based at Bolton depot.

At least Diamond have brought some new vehicles into Bolton unlike GNW who haven't and even cascaded stock didn’t arrive in new livery. Also strange about Go Ahead is the set up for repainting as don’t seem to have their own paint shops. Down south, GA seem to be a good outfit with a good reputation whereas Diamond have a poor reputation but reverse seems to be the case in Manchester. I’d have thought that GA would also have put some new stock on the road.

 

[Robertj21a]

It will indeed be interesting to see if Rotala can shake off their poor image, but it's developed over many years and will take many more years to change perceptions.

 

[hst43102]

At least Diamond have brought some new vehicles into Bolton unlike GNW who haven't and even cascaded stock didn’t arrive in new livery. Also strange about Go Ahead is the set up for repainting as don’t seem to have their own paint shops. Down south, GA seem to be a good outfit with a good reputation whereas Diamond have a poor reputation but reverse seems to be the case in Manchester. I’d have thought that GA would also have put some new stock on the road.

First Queens Road depot had a more modern fleet than Bolton. Streetlites instead of B7RLEs for instance

 

[Alexbus12]

First Queens Road depot had a more modern fleet than Bolton. Streetlites instead of B7RLEs for instance

I'd say Bolton had a more modern fleet. The majority of the streetlites only came when the announcement happened. Bolton and Oldham always had the most modern fleet in GM in recent times. I remember Bury drivers used to complain due to having to drive old citaros when Bolton and Oldham got E300s new etc

 

[Ken H]

Saw a bus on saturday in Bury in first colours but with DIAMOND in big letters on the side. Assume a temp fix till it can be painted properly
Surprised First allow this.

 

[Alexbus12]

Saw a bus on saturday in Bury in first colours but with DIAMOND in big letters on the side. Assume a temp fix till it can be painted properly
Surprised First allow this.

All the first buses at Bolton are Currently loaned to Rotala.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Saw a bus on saturday in Bury in first colours but with DIAMOND in big letters on the side. Assume a temp fix till it can be painted properly
Surprised First allow this.

Why surprised?

This happened with Rotala when they bought Redditch and Kiddy, when Stagecoach bought Wirral and Wigan, and with Go Ahead in Manchester viz new logos on First vehicles.

Can’t recall if it happened with Borders Buses when they bought Gala.

 

[Goldfish62]

At least Diamond have brought some new vehicles into Bolton unlike GNW who haven't and even cascaded stock didn’t arrive in new livery. Also strange about Go Ahead is the set up for repainting as don’t seem to have their own paint shops. Down south, GA seem to be a good outfit with a good reputation whereas Diamond have a poor reputation but reverse seems to be the case in Manchester. I’d have thought that GA would also have put some new stock on the road.

So almost 100 drivers short and banned from tendering for TfGM contracts due to poor performance. I don't think Diamond have a good reputation at all.

Their new buses, which First rejected due to poor build quality, will no doubt look like scrap metal within a couple of years.

 

[Alexbus12]

So almost 100 drivers short and banned from tendering for TfGM contracts due to poor performance. I don't think Diamond have a good reputation at all.

Their new buses, which First rejected due to poor build quality, will no doubt look like scrap metal within a couple of years.

Seen the rumour about Diamond not being able to bid for any tenders in GM, wasn't sure if it was true or not. Do you have a source etc?

 

[Goldfish62]

Seen the rumour about Diamond not being able to bid for any tenders in GM, wasn't sure if it was true or not. Do you have a source etc?

Yes, official source, ie from inside TfGM. One reason why the tendered services didn't transfer with the sale.

 

[Alexbus12]

Yes, official source, ie from inside TfGM. One reason why the tendered services didn't transfer with the sale.

Interesting, alot of their Wigan network is tendered so that could be interesting at the next tender round

 

[Goldfish62]

Interesting, alot of their Wigan network is tendered so that could be interesting at the next tender round

Quite. I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but the ban is time-limited and can be lifted if performance improves on current tendered routes reaches an acceptable level.

 

[markymark2000]

It will indeed be interesting to see if Rotala can shake off their poor image, but it's developed over many years and will take many more years to change perceptions.

I think that Bolton depot is the turning point for them. It is the first proper depot they have got (except Preston) with lots of maintenance facilities and lots of space. Their other depots are just yards with buses crammed in and as few maintenance areas as possible as they take up space.
They previously have been quick to buy companies and just rebranded them. Bolton though they have gone all out for getting in the buses from Yourbus and the Streetdecks. The investment this year as well has been quite large compared to previous years.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think that Bolton depot is the turning point for them. It is the first proper depot they have got (except Preston) with lots of maintenance facilities and lots of space. Their other depots are just yards with buses crammed in and as few maintenance areas as possible as they take up space.
They previously have been quick to buy companies and just rebranded them. Bolton though they have gone all out for getting in the buses from Yourbus and the Streetdecks. The investment this year as well has been quite large compared to previous years.

I also actually think that Bolton will be the turning point, but in the completely opposite way. The severe staff shortage just before the schools go back is just the start.

 

[Alexbus12]

I also actually think that Bolton will be the turning point, but in the completely opposite way. The severe staff shortage just before the schools go back is just the start.

Believe they've got some agency drivers in, but that's only a temporary fix, and tbh, isn't doing much to change the amount of services being cut.
I'm expecting October's changes to be interesting, with the large staff shortages will they continue to run routes that are at direct competition with other companies. Who knows.

 

[158756]

Believe they've got some agency drivers in, but that's only a temporary fix, and tbh, isn't doing much to change the amount of services being cut.
I'm expecting October's changes to be interesting, with the large staff shortages will they continue to run routes that are at direct competition with other companies. Who knows.

Have I missed something here? Which services have been or are going to be cut?

 

[Alexbus12]

Have I missed something here? Which services have been or are going to be cut?

Apologies, should have made it more clearer, I meant trips on services cut each day

 

[markymark2000]

The staff shortages are due to drivers jumping ship because of Rotalas reputation. You can't just find these drivers anywhere.

Stagecoach Manchester are over 100 drivers short as well but that isn't being noted as their services run more often and they can get loan drivers in from other areas. It's just finding ways to have a dig at them. Yes, things aren't perfect but they have only just taken over. Give them chance. You can't do much a few weeks.

New buses coming in and they are likely hiring drivers now. When/as Atherton moves into Bolton, things may get slightly easier as then there are more drivers who can help with small bits of overtime etc. Bolton is the biggest depot Rotala have so it will be a shock to their system trying to make things work on such a large scale.

 

[winston270twm]

Short by 100. Believe they're short on buses too

Yes, the number I'd heard.

There was mean to have been a big recruitment drive and they've been running a special introductory offer on rates for new drivers - not sure how successful that drive has been.

Not sure on being short of buses as well, but to back up your comments, they have drafted in an E200 from Hallmark (in pristine condition.....)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145930547@N03/48732351156

Also Streetlites 32211 & 32220 have been working out of Bolton.

 

[Goldfish62]

The staff shortages are due to drivers jumping ship because of Rotalas reputation. You can't just find these drivers anywhere.

Stagecoach Manchester are over 100 drivers short as well but that isn't being noted as their services run more often and they can get loan drivers in from other areas. It's just finding ways to have a dig at them. Yes, things aren't perfect but they have only just taken over. Give them chance. You can't do much a few weeks.

New buses coming in and they are likely hiring drivers now. When/as Atherton moves into Bolton, things may get slightly easier as then there are more drivers who can help with small bits of overtime etc. Bolton is the biggest depot Rotala have so it will be a shock to their system trying to make things work on such a large scale.

I have no sympathy whatsoever with Rotala. If it was going to be "a shock to the system" they shouldn't have bought in the first place. I doubt if the TC would buy that excuse if they're called to a PI for non compliance. Being banned from tendering by TfGM due to poor performance when running a much smaller setup is hardly a solid basis on which to undertake a major expansion.

Regrading Stagecoach Manchester, they're much larger so the % shortage is somewhat smaller.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The staff shortages are due to drivers jumping ship because of Rotalas reputation. You can't just find these drivers anywhere.

Stagecoach Manchester are over 100 drivers short as well but that isn't being noted as their services run more often and they can get loan drivers in from other areas. It's just finding ways to have a dig at them. Yes, things aren't perfect but they have only just taken over. Give them chance. You can't do much a few weeks.

New buses coming in and they are likely hiring drivers now. When/as Atherton moves into Bolton, things may get slightly easier as then there are more drivers who can help with small bits of overtime etc. Bolton is the biggest depot Rotala have so it will be a shock to their system trying to make things work on such a large scale.

I do appreciate the point you're making and I'm loathe to take pot shots at firms. It's also true that it was the biggest move that they've made AND perhaps it has highlighted some issues and they will need time to put things right.

However, let's look at a few things...

• The driver shortage is caused by Rotala's reputation; that is their issue
• They may need a few weeks or more to sort this out - the TC isn't going to see it that way
• The Atherton move may prove counter-productive - could easily lose drivers who prefer to live/work locally; if you live in Leigh, you may as well work for Jim Stones (if they have a vacancy), Warrington or Stagecoach!

Rotala have a reputation and with good reason.

In the last year, I've had the chance to look at the Worcestershire operations which are shocking in terms of the vehicle presentation. They've also attracted the attention of the TC three times - 2014/2016/2018 for not operating to times in Worcestershire!

I can also point to some interesting experiences in the NW and with their Hallmark operations. If they've a reputational issue before, a big purchase and not getting it right seems to be compounding things.

 

[158756]

Just get on with it and end deregulation. A question though - if Rotala are banned from tendering in Greater Manchester, would they also be banned from any new system, and thus banned from operating any bus in the area at all?

 

[Alexbus12]

A question though - if Rotala are banned from tendering in Greater Manchester, would they also be banned from any new system, and thus banned from operating any bus in the area at all?

Ban can be overturned once Diamond have proved they have improved reliability on current tendered services