Rollercoaster rides - Has ride quality declined?

[800301]

Money. Saves fuel using eco modes.

There is no eco mode on a 800 not that any driver would use it as they are slow enough even with all the engines working.

The problem is mainly due to defective fuel pumps that are failing much faster than they should, this requires the GU to be dropped and the fuel system cleaned, this is not a 5 min job, annoyingly it’s a large proportion of the fleet this is affecting. They are getting around 3 GU’s done a day

Units running with engines isolated are obviously slow and the myriad of ESR/TSR’s are making the problem more obvious with some WOE services losing around 20 mins due to this.

 

[sharpener]

The problem is mainly due to defective fuel pumps that are failing much faster than they should, this requires the GU to be dropped and the fuel system cleaned, this is not a 5 min job, annoyingly it’s a large proportion of the fleet this is affecting. They are getting around 3 GU’s done a day

Seems a bit basic, MTU are not exactly new to underfloor diesel engines, sounds like unexpectedly heavy wear in the pumps due to particulate contamination.

Is the underlying problem the quality of the fuel or a deficiency in the filters as suggested upthread? Is there any difference between ToCs? What is the long-term cure?

Presumably Hitachi are on the hook for the extra costs and disruption, what about delay-repay as well?

 

[800301]

Seems a bit basic, MTU are not exactly new to underfloor diesel engines, sounds like unexpectedly heavy wear in the pumps due to particulate contamination.

Is the underlying problem the quality of the fuel or a deficiency in the filters as suggested upthread? Is there any difference between ToCs? What is the long-term cure?

Presumably Hitachi are on the hook for the extra costs and disruption, what about delay-repay as well?

From what I hear it seems to be a GWR problem, I’m not sure as to why it’s suddenly shown up but once the pump has been replaced and the system cleaned, they aren’t seeing repeated failures, nothing has been ruled out yet as to the cause of this but hitachi are investigating

 

[Krokodil]

From what I hear it seems to be a GWR problem, I’m not sure as to why it’s suddenly shown up but once the pump has been replaced and the system cleaned, they aren’t seeing repeated failures, nothing has been ruled out yet as to the cause of this but hitachi are investigating

Which fleet are affected? 800/0, 800/3, 802 or the lot? Presumably that will affect the penalties incurred by Hitachi.

 

[Deepgreen]

I have never been on a rollercoaster, but I imagine rough riding is one of their attractions...

More seriously, my perception from 50+ years of rail travel is that ride quality is now better than I can ever recall, possibly aided by the lack of over-speeding in most areas.

 

[Krokodil]

More seriously, my perception from 50+ years of rail travel is that ride quality is now better than I can ever recall, possibly aided by the lack of over-speeding in most areas.

Loss of jointed track will have helped improve things, but most recent designs of rolling stock do have a poorer ride than we used to expect from a Mk3 coach.

 

[Epic]

Well in my 50+ years of rail travel the current comfort levels, including the ride quality, is in my opinion now poor in comparison but I don't expect anything else as this is a deliberate policy.

 

[172007]

Its all rose tinted glasses. Modern trains are a little firm (like our preference for modern cars) and the seats dont help on some modern units.

Traveling back in the day on heritage DMU'd and class 310's 304's and the like gosh, they were awfully. Bouncing around all over the place.

Mk3 bogies BREL BT10 with long swinglinks are the best. Who owns the rights to them and what over the period of the lifetime of a coach / bogies is the trade off in extra weight so more fule consumption and railwear compared to modern bogies such as Alstom's (Bombardier) Flexxeco on class 220's for instance.

extra 1kg over millions of miles must mount up in fuel consumption by quite a bit i immagine.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I had a first ride in a 730 yesterday, a 5-car on an LNR Crewe-Liverpool service.
I was impressed by the smoothness of ride and also the seat comfort - somewhat like the TfW 197s.
Although I doubt we hit 110mph anywhere with the stops and delays en route.

I also sampled a TfW 3-car 197 (Manchester-Crewe, in a 5-car set) and again the ride was good at 100 mph in the middle car.
But I have had some shocking rides in 2-car 197s on other routes.

In the mix was an Avanti 807 (Liverpool-Runcorn) and again that was better than I expected, though not at 110mph, much less the 125mph promised.

 

[800301]

Its all rose tinted glasses. Modern trains are a little firm (like our preference for modern cars) and the seats dont help on some modern units.

Traveling back in the day on heritage DMU'd and class 310's 304's and the like gosh, they were awfully. Bouncing around all over the place.

Mk3 bogies BREL BT10 with long swinglinks are the best. Who owns the rights to them and what over the period of the lifetime of a coach / bogies is the trade off in extra weight so more fule consumption and railwear compared to modern bogies such as Alstom's (Bombardier) Flexxeco on class 220's for instance.

extra 1kg over millions of miles must mount up in fuel consumption by quite a bit i immagine.

So driving 165’s, 387’s and 800’s The turbos soak up the bumps by far the best, so when we have a rough ride in a turbo we know the track is really bad haha

 

[Route115?]

You should have travelled on an unrefurbished 4 CEP. Actually quite good fun in the well padded seats, no so if standing.

 

[The exile]

Whilst I don't have knowledge of that area of the network, it seems to me that many people have reported similar ride quality issues with 80x fleet, not just the GWR versions, around the UK.

You would have missed this one but there’s a now alarming jolt on the up line just at the end of the long embankment between Saltford and Bath. Been there a while but seems to be getting worse - so I hope it gets fixed during the block in 2 weeks’ time. When I think that on my first ever GW HST journey (Bath - Bristol in 1979) it was hard to tell whether not we were moving…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2025 ==

Its all rose tinted glasses. Modern trains are a little firm (like our preference for modern cars) and the seats dont help on some modern units.

Traveling back in the day on heritage DMU'd and class 310's 304's and the like gosh, they were awfully. Bouncing around all over the place.

Indeed - compared with, say, 50 years ago things have got better, but most modern offerings fall short of the best that we’ve managed in the interim. Rolling stock is only half the story though; what it’s rolling on is also critical. Overall, standards have improved - but I would say that the “top end” of the quality pyramid is now a lot thinner (and lower) than it has been. More intensive use is not going to help!

 

[MikeWM]

Ely to Waterbeach is pretty poor and has been for some time, especially on a 379 or 387. Probably worse in the Down direction but the Up seems to have got quite a bit more lurch-y recently too.

 

[AM9]

Ely to Waterbeach is pretty poor and has been for some time, especially on a 379 or 387. Probably worse in the Down direction but the Up seems to have got quite a bit more lurch-y recently too.

Has anybody here sampled that stretch in a class 700, - that would be a good test of their capabilities.

 

[BorderCollie]

Try sleeping in the top bunk of the Caley Sleeper barreling up the WCML. It's an experience akin to a sock in a tumble dryer.

 

[QueensCurve]

Is it just me or has travelling by train become a bit more of a rollercoaster ride?

Today's unpleasant ride was between Chichester and Southborne. Passengers looking at each other with alarm at the severity of the rocking of the carriages.

By no means the only area for uncomfortable rides. The Pompey to Waterloo line has been bad of late.

Be interested to know what is the cause. Poor rails or poor suspension on trains?

The ride quality in the leading coach of the pendolini is particularly bad. I think this reflects the response time of the tilt system requiring the sensors to be on the coach in front but obviously not possible for the front coach.

 

[johnr57]

I recently travelled south to Kings Cross on mk4 stock from York and returned via Azuma . This was an interesting comparison and I have to say I preferred the mk4 by a significant margin

 

[WestMidsFan5]

Overusage/poor maintinance

 

[philthetube]

Just being curious, I've heard that some railway tracks on lesser used lines only get replaced per 50 years. Maybe that's the reason?

Some may be older, it is replaced when necessary, not to time.

 

[physics34]

Hasnt there been a recent announcement by network rail that because of costs theres gonna be a lot more temporary fixes than renewals. Not good with our new rolling stock with its hard seats and poor suspension.
Also expect more chassis cracking maybe!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2025 ==

I recently travelled south to Kings Cross on mk4 stock from York and returned via Azuma . This was an interesting comparison and I have to say I preferred the mk4 by a significant margin

The Hitachis are the poorest rolling stock ive been on in Europe on Intercity routes when it comes to hard seats and ride quality. We should expect better. Mk3s should still be being made, albeit with powered doors.

 

[uglymonkey]

I hate the GWML, the trains to Devon ride very poorly, with a sickening random violent side lurch on occasion coupled with the paper thin cushions is actually painful. Much more comfy in the car.

 

[speedy1]

The Hitachis are the poorest rolling stock ive been on in Europe on Intercity routes when it comes to hard seats and ride quality. We should expect better. Mk3s should still be being made, albeit with powered doors.

Agreed. I knew with the amount of advertising LNER did about 'Azuma' that they would be crap - talk about overcompensating. I am delighted when I see the older LNER stock instead (225?) roll up.

It also appears the LNER website has stopped showing which services are Azuma ?

 

[Krokodil]

Some may be older, it is replaced when necessary, not to time.

I imagine that if you look in the right places you might find the odd pre-nationalisation rail chair

 

[physics34]

Agreed. I knew with the amount of advertising LNER did about 'Azuma' that they would be crap - talk about overcompensating. I am delighted when I see the older LNER stock instead (225?) roll up.

It also appears the LNER website has stopped showing which services are Azuma ?

Yep definately overcompensating. One good thing i guess is that they are going to have to do something soon with the seating on the GWR ones and the LNER ones as they are rock hard and flattened. The Avanti ones are bareable... not sure about Lumo, Hull Trains or EMR as havent tried them.

 

[LowLevel]

Peterborough - Ely - Thetford is pretty awful at the moment, riddled with speed restrictions and even the 158s (probably the best riding train on the network) are routinely bouncing off the end of the travel on the yaw dampers on the various alignment issues. Going over on a 170 is a positively painful experience.

 

[B&W]

You should have travelled on an unrefurbished 4 CEP. Actually quite good fun in the well padded seats, no so if standing.

Quite a ride nonstop on through South London suburbs along with the Hastings Diesels, also passing Norwood Junc in an Oxted Motor Coach at 50/60mph you did not want to be standing.

Definition of EPB was Every Passenger Bouncing which was so true down Warnham bank between Dorking and Horsham once the SUBs had gone.

Between Earlswood and Gatwood you would run alongside a fellow CIG/BIG formation and the phase 1 bogies could be seen hunting and swaying from Bump Stop to Bump Stop

When the 4CAPs sometimes escaped from their Coastway plods up the MidSussex on a peak hour the ride was interesting if the Driver apparently forgot he had a CAP in the formation.

 

[saismee]

Peterborough - Ely - Thetford is pretty awful at the moment, riddled with speed restrictions and even the 158s (probably the best riding train on the network) are routinely bouncing off the end of the travel on the yaw dampers on the various alignment issues. Going over on a 170 is a positively painful experience.

How are the FLIRTs?

 

[LowLevel]

How are the FLIRTs?

No idea, never been on one!

 

[dk1]

How are the FLIRTs?

They are about the same. Certainly feel it up front but it’s to be expected at this time of year particularly between Ely North Jcn and Mile End.

 

[saismee]

They are about the same. Certainly feel it up front but it’s to be expected at this time of year particularly between Ely North Jcn and Mile End.

Those cabs feel bumps so unbelievably differently to the passenger seating. It's a very strange experience.

No idea, never been on one!

Likewise for me on 170s! I did ride a 158 a while back but the only thing I remember was that the floor was covered in a weird black tarry substance and it got stuck to my boot. Had to scrape my boot on the platform at Norwich to get rid of it.

Maybe I'll give Ely to Norwich a go on both some time.