Robin Hood Line Extension

[Yew]

Hey all,

First off, have there been any developments on the extension of the robin hood line?

Secondly, Ive been looking on google maps and have found the following.

There is intact track all the way to Ollerton, all that would be needed would be Some Platforms at Warsop, Edwinstowe, and Ollerton. To save suburban buildign costs this could even be in the form of 'Parkway' Stations just outside the towns.

There is an intact trackbed (ie, nothing built on it) There seems to be a varying amount of rails along the bed to the Powertation on the river trent, with the Trackbed after that looking to be used as a road (however not appearing as a road on google maps) Would an extension to lincoln be possible (it looks pretty straight after the powerstation and most importantly there is a bridge OVER the ECML. Could this be a useful diversion of services to Lincoln, to allow more paths on the ECML? (one more each way an hour I would guess?)

Does anyone have more information about this line or any way i could compare timings (via some speed limit guidelines) to the standard Nottingham => Lincoln Line?

EDIT

There would also be the possibility for a station near tuxford, and a Level crossing in skellingthorpe would be needed, and maybe moving a childrens park

 

[Wyvern]

Are you writing about the remains of the

Lancashire,_Derbyshire_and_East_Coast_Railway

Isnt it being used by Network Rail?

 

[Yew]

Are you writing about the remains of the

Lancashire,_Derbyshire_and_East_Coast_Railway

Isnt it being used by Network Rail?

It is used for driver training, and a little freight, However The tracks are all in place to ollerton, and would just need stations opening/re-opening (depending on their condition) Up to the river trent, there seems to be at least one track, and past there the trackbed is mostly intact.

Mansfield/Notts Council where considering extending services along this route to ollerton in 2009, and found it would be financially viable. However I saw a Bridge over the ECML, and the difficulty of building a Bridge/flyover at newark. Then compared to the cost of putting some new track down, to that ofBuilding a difficultly sited bridge, that requires low gradients thatthere is no room for. Also all the bridges will have to be maintained anyway (both the lightly used, and the unused ones.)

 

[gordonthemoron]

the last I heard was about extending the service from Nottingham to Bingham, but that was ages ago, before I left Nottingham in 2008

 

[Yew]

the last I heard was about extending the service from Nottingham to Bingham, but that was ages ago, before I left Nottingham in 2008

I think thats the tram isnt it?

 

[gordonthemoron]

no, tram is to Clifton and Chilwell via Beeston

 

[Wyvern]

Different line.

That's the old Ambergate, Nottingham, Boston and Eastern Junction Railway which is still in use (Nottingham to Grantham)

 

[Grimsby town]

Not to sure on the progress of reopening the line but the track is intact to just past tuxford and the trackbed is intact to skellingthorpe were it could join the lincoln Gainsborough line. To me it a no brainer. It could be used for a Lincoln-Mansfield-Nottingham service and ollerton is next to centre parcs so I think the usage would be fairly large for people wanting to go there.

 

[Yew]

Do any drivers know aproximate speeds to Tuxford? or could givea reasonable guess ayt what they could be? Im suessing the long straight bit between the trent bridge and skellingthorpe could be 90/100 depending on acceleration speeds?

 

[Wyvern]

Would it be feasible to reopen the Fledborough Viaduct given there is an existing route from Nottingham using the Grantham line?

 

[Yew]

Does anyone have any ideas of relating costs? compared to complex bridges?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It could be used for a Lincoln-Mansfield-Nottingham service and Ollerton is next to centre parcs so I think the usage would be fairly large for people wanting to go there.

What type of units would be suitable for this line. Would the projected passenger loadings be sufficiant on such a route...I am interested by this proposal as I recently opened a thread on services in the Lincoln area.

Lincoln needs better rail services for its tourist potential.

 

[Grimsby town]

I think Nottingham to Lincoln through journeys would be limited as it would be as slow as the current stopping service even if you ran Nottingham to Mansfield non stop. Tourist wise I think the line could be great as with all the new hotels in Lincoln people could stay in lincoln and travel on the train to parts of sherwood forest and a Robin hood trail could be set up with different attactions at different stations. Skellingthorpe, tuxford,ollerton and even Mansfield could be good commuter routes to Lincoln and a study is been caried out recently that it would be viable to atleast ollerton now. For unit I would probably think a 170 or 158 because as someone mentioned earlier it might be possible to run at 90mph.

 

[Yew]

Unfortunately there seems to be very little info around about the robin hood line extensions.

Im going to try and work out some timings

Nottingham => Lincoln (via newark) 0:53 minimum time, 1:08 maximum

Nottingham => Shirebrooke 0:43 mins, However notts CC aare trying to parsuade this to be increased (does anyone know the linespeed along here?_

Now from shirebrooke junction to ollerton/tuxford, . Google maps says the route by road is 17 miles, with the railway having a similar distance and deviation from the direct line between the two. Suggesting an average speed of 40mph, this would take around 30-35 mins including stops at warsop, edwinstowe and ollerton.

Between the trent bridge and Lincoln, the track is dtraight as a die, with one stop at skellingthorpe. I imagine there could be potential for a Linespeed of 100 mph, if it could be required. Google maps say the distance between tuxford and Lincoln is 18miles by road, however the Track is much more direct than the road, so I will round this to 16 miles.

at a linespeed of 90mph, this could be acheived in around 12 mins, and accounting for the stop at skellingthorpe. This could become 20 mins (including going slower after the pyewype junction.

Overall if there where no inferstructre uprades to existing lines, this journey would take 1:30 hours, if there where some upgrades along the line, (and i feel my shirebrooke tuxford estimate may be too slow)

I think the time could be made to be comparable to the newark line.

Thanks, yEW

 

[lancastrian]

Would reopening the line from Mansflied to Lincoln mean that the Robin Hood Line would have another string to it's Bow.

Sorry about that, but I just couldn't resist.

 

[Yew]

If anyone thinks my time estimates are wrong, feel free to put your own there (especially drivers, I dont know acceleration charachteristics, and speed limits for corners etc)

 

[Wyvern]

Tourist wise I think the line could be great as with all the new hotels in Lincoln people could stay in lincoln and travel on the train to parts of sherwood forest and a Robin hood trail could be set up with different attactions at different stations.

THat was tried back in the nineteenth century when it was built

It was to be sold as the "Robin Hood Line" where it ran through the Dukeries to try and attract tourist trade.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

THat was tried back in the nineteenth century when it was built

It was to be sold as the "Robin Hood Line" where it ran through the Dukeries to try and attract tourist trade.

The Victorian railway companies always had an eye for marketing such a potentially lucrative market as they did for Blackpool....and also for having loose-coupled freight trains of inordinate train length that would contravene any known rail regulations these days.

 

[trentside]

If anyone thinks my time estimates are wrong, feel free to put your own there (especially drivers, I dont know acceleration charachteristics, and speed limits for corners etc)

A major thing to factor in, is that while it would be entirely possible to have a line speed of 90mph, 153 and 156 units (the mainstay of Robin Hood Line services) only have a maximum permitted speed of 75mph, so that would be a more realistic estimate on which to base journey times.

In terms of this extension though, I can't see re-opening to Lincoln ever being put on the cards, the only place it serves once on the Lincolnshire side of the Trent is Skellingthorpe, which has seen major cutbacks to it's local bus service in the last few years through lack of use.

I could see an extension to Ollerton, and maybe Tuxford having some benefits. For one, the track is still in place, and a single line would be more than satisfactory if we're talking about extending the hourly Mansfield Woodhouse service along there. I'd imagine this could be achieved by adding an extra unit onto the Robin Hood Line diagrams (not that EMT have any spare!).

 

[Yew]

I could see an extension to Ollerton, and maybe Tuxford having some benefits. For one, the track is still in place, and a single line would be more than satisfactory if we're talking about extending the hourly Mansfield Woodhouse service along there. I'd imagine this could be achieved by adding an extra unit onto the Robin Hood Line diagrams (not that EMT have any spare!).

The Nottingham => Mansfield woodhouse service would be extended to ollerton/tuxford. Using the estimated journey times to ollerton. One extra unit would supplement this unit to make the service hourly . Its possibly that Notts CC could put money towards buying a new unit, or that with the new 172's could cascade a sprinter to two.

The extension to lincoln could be viable if the costs of building a bridge at newark are prohibitively high, compared to laying some track on a clear and flast track bed. and restoring a bridge to railway standards

If this route where used isntead of via newark, then no extra units would be needed, as the services from lincoln to leicster would go along and add capacity to the rhl (maybe runing semi fast from mansfield to nottingham).

The main limiting factor would be the single tracked part next to the nottingham tramline, however i think the single tracked part could be reduced in length with a little work. and It would wtill have the same frequancy of services along this section

 

[Tomnick]

If this route where used isntead of via newark, then no extra units would be needed, as the services from lincoln to leicster would go along and add capacity to the rhl (maybe runing semi fast from mansfield to nottingham).

And what about the service from intermediate stations on that route, most notably Newark, to Nottingham and Lincoln?

 

[tbtc]

If you can't fill trains on the line from Nottingham to Mansfield then what chance of small places like Tuxford?

A "no" from me.

Plus, as Tomnick says, diverting the Nottingham - Lincoln service loses the links along that line (inc Nottingham - Newark)

 

[34D]

Any updates on bringing Ollerton back into passenger service?

An interesting extension idea which has occurred to me today would be Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop-reverse then to Doncaster by the current freight only route from Brancliffe east junction, with new stations at Anston and Maltby.

Doncaster south end bay platform 5 should easily be able to cope with an extra hourly service in addition to its current workings (the Lincoln-Doncaster EMT and some sheffield-donc terminators). Indeed, it would be theoretical to link at Doncaster with the EMT Doncaster-Finningley-Gainsborough Lea Road-Lincoln service.

Build stations at Anston, Maltby and Finningley - theoretically nothing else needed. Comments?

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Any updates on bringing Ollerton back into passenger service?

An interesting extension idea which has occurred to me today would be Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop-reverse then to Doncaster by the current freight only route from Brancliffe east junction, with new stations at Anston and Maltby.

Doncaster south end bay platform 5 should easily be able to cope with an extra hourly service in addition to its current workings (the Lincoln-Doncaster EMT and some sheffield-donc terminators). Indeed, it would be theoretical to link at Doncaster with the EMT Doncaster-Finningley-Gainsborough Lea Road-Lincoln service.

Build stations at Anston, Maltby and Finningley - theoretically nothing else needed. Comments?

I support any new stations in South Yorkshire, we have lagged behind far too long as a county when it comes to opening new stations.

As for the EMT Doncaster-Gainsborough Lea Road-Lincoln-Sleaford-Spalding-Peterborough service, this is up for review according to the Department for Transport as part of the 2015 franchise, seems their is a lot of upset people in Lincolnshire not happy with their rail services

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I support any new stations in South Yorkshire, we have lagged behind far too long as a county when it comes to opening new stations.

I'm sorry, I have to challenge this. Between 1984 and 1993, eleven railway stations in South Yorkshire opened (or indeed reopened), in order: Silkstone Common, Rotherham Central, Goldthorpe, Thurnscoe, Dodworth, Berry Brow, Swinton, Meadowhall, Kirk Sandall, Bentley and Adwick. Rotherham Central (from the above) and Barnsley Interchange have also undergone complete rebuilding projects, and the year after the end of this run, you also gained a fairly expansive 18 mile light rail network. Compare that to similarly populated Hampshire (SY has 1,344000 residents and Hants 1,322,000), which has had only 3 since in 47 years (Southampton Airport in 1966, Hedge End in 1990 and Chadlers Ford in 2003), all of which are within about 10 miles of each other. The Solent area also had a light rail scheme cancelled. Essex, larger than SY with 1,397,000 residents, has had only 5 new stations in 39 years, Basildon in 1974, Stansted Airport in 1991, Chafford Hundred in 1995, Braintree Freeport in 1999, and Southend Airport in 2011. Yep, South Yorkshire sure has done badly!

 

[Kneedown]

Do any drivers know aproximate speeds to Tuxford? or could givea reasonable guess ayt what they could be? Im suessing the long straight bit between the trent bridge and skellingthorpe could be 90/100 depending on acceleration speeds?

The last time i went over that stretch was in 95 as a Toton Driver. Linespeed to Ollerton was 60mph and it was a decent bit of line by freight standards. As far as track quality went i see no reason why there couldnt be a Sprinter differential of 75mph. Of course, i cant comment on whether the track is still as good now, or whether the signalling would permit a higher speed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you can't fill trains on the line from Nottingham to Mansfield then what chance of small places like Tuxford?

A "no" from me.

Mansfield services throughout the day are pretty cosy. You're in trouble if a 153 turns up instead of a two car. The root cause of most delay minutes on the route boils down to passenger loading times at stations, although i concede the door layout on 153/6/8's plays a part.

 

[ashworth]

Lets just begin by doing something simple and costing millions of pounds less!
Better connections at Worksop so that it doesn't take nearly 2 hours to travel on what should be a quick local journey from Mansfield to Sheffield.
That would significantly increase passenger numbers on the section of the Robin Hood Line north of Mansfield. It's currently quicker and more convenient to use the very slow Number 53 bus between Mansfield and Sheffield.

 

[AndyHudds]

I'm sorry, I have to challenge this. Between 1984 and 1993, eleven railway stations in South Yorkshire opened (or indeed reopened), in order: Silkstone Common, Rotherham Central, Goldthorpe, Thurnscoe, Dodworth, Berry Brow, Swinton, Meadowhall, Kirk Sandall, Bentley and Adwick. Rotherham Central (from the above) and Barnsley Interchange have also undergone complete rebuilding projects, and the year after the end of this run, you also gained a fairly expansive 18 mile light rail network. Compare that to similarly populated Hampshire (SY has 1,344000 residents and Hants 1,322,000), which has had only 3 since in 47 years (Southampton Airport in 1966, Hedge End in 1990 and Chadlers Ford in 2003), all of which are within about 10 miles of each other. The Solent area also had a light rail scheme cancelled. Essex, larger than SY with 1,397,000 residents, has had only 5 new stations in 39 years, Basildon in 1974, Stansted Airport in 1991, Chafford Hundred in 1995, Braintree Freeport in 1999, and Southend Airport in 2011. Yep, South Yorkshire sure has done badly!

Berry Brow is Huddersfield....which is in West Yorkshire, granted its on the Penistone Line though.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Berry Brow is Huddersfield....which is in West Yorkshire, granted its on the Penistone Line though.

Doesnt wipe an awful lots off his point either :P

 

[Yew]

Lets just begin by doing something simple and costing millions of pounds less!
Better connections at Worksop so that it doesn't take nearly 2 hours to travel on what should be a quick local journey from Mansfield to Sheffield.
That would significantly increase passenger numbers on the section of the Robin Hood Line north of Mansfield. It's currently quicker and more convenient to use the very slow Number 53 bus between Mansfield and Sheffield.

Maybe even an extension to retford, to give an ECML connection for people who want to go to the north?


Lest I have heard, the High marnham test track had been testing some Low Cost RFID based In-cab signalling system using an Ipad for the in cab screen. And since Network rail test a lot of machinery there, I iamgine the track is in good condition.

Of course, there is still the issue of stock for ollerton services