RMT turns down Network Rail Pay Offer

[Signal_Box]

To many people, I daresay that a *minimum* increase of £1275 would be quite attractive at this stage.

Not for higher grade staff, I’m not sure why I should get less when I contribute more because I’m a higher grade than those who the minimum increase is aimed at.

 

[LAX54]

To many people, I daresay that a *minimum* increase of £1275 would be quite attractive at this stage.

It would also stop lower grade staff applying for higher grade posts, as the differential would start to vapourise.

 

[PupCuff]

Not for higher grade staff, I’m not sure why I should get less when I contribute more because I’m a higher grade than those who the minimum increase is aimed at.

You aren't getting less though, you're getting more?

You're getting a lower percentage yes, but lower grade staff have got the same expenditure as you but not the commensurate increase in salary, because outgoings are only a proportion of how much you're paid.

If our bills are going to go up by the same amount, but I earn £20k a year more than you, so get an extra real terms £700 a year than you, why would this be equitable? We've both had to pay an extra, I dunno, £300 on our bills but I've got £400 which I can spend on an extra holiday. The spending power isn't the same.

 

[Krokodil]

The reason RMT asks for an underpin (aka minimum uplift) is that percentage increases gradually increase the gap between the highest paid and lowest paid. The underpin is an attempt to stop that gap from widening too far. I'm not sure why higher grade members object to that (if what @Signal_Box says is really the reason that it has been turned down)

 

[Signal_Box]

The reason RMT asks for an underpin (aka minimum uplift) is that percentage increases gradually increase the gap between the highest paid and lowest paid. The underpin is an attempt to stop that gap from widening too far. I'm not sure why higher grade members object to that (if what @Signal_Box says is really the reason that it has been turned down)

What incentive is there for lower grade staff to apply for higher grade roles if the gap is getting smaller and smaller ?

A flat risse of 3.5% across all grades covered no minimum uplifts.

 

[Bantamzen]

What incentive is there for lower grade staff to apply for higher grade roles if the gap is getting smaller and smaller ?

A flat risse of 3.5% across all grades covered no minimum uplifts.

Because 3.5% on £40K (£1400) is still more than £1275, which is around 3.5% of a £36.5K salary. So there will always be plenty of scope to get better wages and better actual rises. In fact even a salary of £37K would get £1295 at 3.5%, so the gap only decreases below the £36.5K or so pay band.

 

[muz379]

What incentive is there for lower grade staff to apply for higher grade roles if the gap is getting smaller and smaller ?

A flat risse of 3.5% across all grades covered no minimum uplifts.

Of course not everyone has the ability to take higher paid roles for various reasons , additionally regardless of if those individuals currently filling those roles do seek higher paid opportunities within the organisation the actual jobs that they do will still need filling by somebody .

And the underpin aims to slow down the growth in the gap between those roles and higher paid ones . Even with the unerpin that gap is still growing not getting smaller and smaller as you suggest .

Personally the underpin would not apply to me but I fully support the idea of having an underpin although I do not think that the current offer is enough and so overall am glad it has been rejected and an improved offer sought .

 

[Bald Rick]

What incentive is there for lower grade staff to apply for higher grade roles if the gap is getting smaller and smaller ?

I think you misunderstand.

in this scenario the gap isn‘t getting ‘smaller and smaller’.

It is getting bigger at a slower rate.

 

[Krokodil]

What incentive is there for lower grade staff to apply for higher grade roles if the gap is getting smaller and smaller ?

The gap isn't getting smaller. There is still a significant pay incentive to go for the higher grade, plus the extra challenge (some will get bored in a sleepy box) and the threat of redundancy as smaller boxes are gradually whittled away. Not that lack of applicants for promotion is really an issue, Network Rail considers off-the-street applicants for pretty much all positions and I am not aware that we're suffering from a nationwide shortage of signallers, unlike with drivers where the shortage is very apparent in cancellation rates in some areas.

 

[winks]

£1275 underpin is a good offer given inflation is falling.

What about annual leave additional purchase ?

 

[High Dyke]

The lack of a renewed 'no compulsory redundancy' agreement was a factor in feedback that I received from colleagues. Especially amongst the Mobile Operations Manager (MOM) grade, where redundancies are currently being made (on the East Coast route).

There were quite a few that stated they were to happy to accept this offer. However, they would also support action short of a strike, if that were to occur.

A number of other items submitted by the trade unions were declined by Network Rail, though a couple of concessions were agreed.

 

[JonathanH]

inflation is falling.

That has nothing to do with it. Inflation isn't falling in any case, as the index is still increasing.

It is just that the rate of increase measured year to year is slower than it was.

This is the Consumer Prices Index

2022 NOV 124.8
2022 DEC 125.3
2023 JAN 124.8
2023 FEB 126.0
2023 MAR 126.8
2023 APR 128.3
2023 MAY 129.1
2023 JUN 129.4
2023 JUL 129.0
2023 AUG 129.4
2023 SEP 130.1
2023 OCT 130.2
2023 NOV 130.0
2023 DEC 130.5
2024 JAN 130.0
2024 FEB 130.8
2024 MAR 131.6
2024 APR 132.2

Now, measured from November 2022 to November 2023, the increase is 130.0 / 124.8 = 4.2%. Measured from November 2022 to April 2024, the increase is 132.2 / 124.8 = 5.9%.

The increase from November 2022 to April 2023 can't just be ignored to justify using an April 2023 to April 2024 based increase.

 

[Signal_Box]

The lack of a renewed 'no compulsory redundancy' agreement was a factor in feedback that I received from colleagues. Especially amongst the Mobile Operations Manager (MOM) grade, where redundancies are currently being made (on the East Coast route).

There were quite a few that stated they were to happy to accept this offer. However, they would also support action short of a strike, if that were to occur.

A number of other items submitted by the trade unions were declined by Network Rail, though a couple of concessions were agreed.

Reducing MOM coverage ! Who’s going to respond to incidents ? Performance will decline as a result of short term penny pinching.

 

[High Dyke]

Reducing MOM coverage ! Who’s going to respond to incidents ? Performance will decline as a result of short term penny pinching.

There's still sufficient coverage per day. This is more due to overstaffing by management. The reduction is one post per location. However, and to agree with your point, it is penny-pinching, but management have brought this situation on themselves. Unfortunately, it's the frontline that will suffer. And, more importantly what future staffing plans are Network Rail thinking of?

 

[Signal_Box]

There's still sufficient coverage per day. This is more due to overstaffing by management. The reduction is one post per location. However, and to agree with your point, it is penny-pinching, but management have brought this situation on themselves. Unfortunately, it's the frontline that will suffer. And, more importantly what future staffing plans are Network Rail thinking of?

I just don’t think they can continue with the streamlining of maintenance and incident staff without significant impact on performance. Surely they go hand in hand reduce one and the other suffers ?

 

[fishwomp]

I just don’t think they can continue with the streamlining of maintenance and incident staff without significant impact on performance. Surely they go hand in hand reduce one and the other suffers ?

.. when they go too far, they pay more in compensation to the operators. They know that ECML failures are going to be costly, so I imagine they have done their sums and come to that decision - it wouldn't be just a random reckless action as that costs too much. According to June Modern Railways, they're recruiting MOMs in the south eastern to improve the responses in a particular area - so it can swing the other way.

 

[Bald Rick]

when they go too far, they pay more in compensation to the operators.

I suspect that compensation to Governement controlled operators will soon be a thing of the past.

 

[GardenRail]

It's just going to go, on and on, and on, and on. Again. NR almost knew it would get rejected. Imagine, if they had the foresight to have a comeback offer or whatever ever for the last meeting to avoid these long periods of no talking.

 

[mac]

We are over halfway through June and our pay increase that should have started in January still hasn't been decided and I can't see anything happening before end of July so would it be better to now have a 2 year agreement.

 

[GardenRail]

We are over halfway through June and our pay increase that should have started in January still hasn't been decided and I can't see anything happening before end of July so would it be better to now have a 2 year agreement.

Totally agree. This is getting very tiresome. 3.5 offer was indeed an insult though.

 

[demigod19]

Totally agree. This is getting very tiresome. 3.5 offer was indeed an insult though.

Realistically how much increase would be ideal ? If and when they do agree to a pay rise, is it from immediate effect or from a certain month onwards? If anyone is aware of it?

 

[12LDA28C]

Realistically how much increase would be ideal ? If and when they do agree to a pay rise, is it from immediate effect or from a certain month onwards? If anyone is aware of it?

Any pay increase would be applicable from the anniversary date, this is standard across the railway. I believe the anniversary date in this case is January.

 

[demigod19]

Somebody in the earlier thread mentioned there was no pay increase this January so how would that work out if the next pay rise is to be scheduled for January 2025 assuming there is an agreement with union and NR?

 

[JonathanH]

Somebody in the earlier thread mentioned there was no pay increase this January so how would that work out if the next pay rise is to be scheduled for January 2025 assuming there is an agreement with union and NR?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Network Rail put forward an offer for January 2024 which appears not to have been acceptable. If a positive increase is not acceptable, I'm not sure why no increase would be.

 

[demigod19]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Network Rail put forward an offer for January 2024 which appears not to have been acceptable. If a positive increase is not acceptable, I'm not sure why no increase would be.

My initial question was if and when there is an agreement with the union and NR, will the pay rise be effective immediately as the pay rise dispute is with regards to 2024 January and we are already at the end of June.

 

[12LDA28C]

Somebody in the earlier thread mentioned there was no pay increase this January so how would that work out if the next pay rise is to be scheduled for January 2025 assuming there is an agreement with union and NR?

A pay rise was due in January. Just because an offer was rejected does not mean that staff now have to wait until the next pay rise is due to get any increase in pay. Any improved offer for 2024, if accepted would be backdated to January this year.

 

[demigod19]

A pay rise was due in January. Just because an offer was rejected does not mean that staff now have to wait until the next pay rise is due to get any increase in pay. Any improved offer for 2024, if accepted would be backdated to January this year.

Im meant to start at NR in the coming months on band 5, hence the trivial questions. Thank you.

 

[12LDA28C]

Im meant to start at NR in the coming months on band 5, hence the trivial questions. Thank you.

Congratulations and good luck!

 

[winks]

Any payrise is backdated to the anniversary date of Jan 24 for Network Rail. So staff will receive lump sum payments. I’m still in the NHS and our payrise is overdue now but should have been paid in April, however the election has pushed this back until a new govt is formed.

 

[GardenRail]

Realistically how much increase would be ideal ? If and when they do agree to a pay rise, is it from immediate effect or from a certain month onwards? If anyone is aware of it?

Novembers RPI, as it's been for my 22 years until the great COVID scapegoat.