RMT turns down Network Rail Pay Offer

[En]

The reason RMT asks for an underpin (aka minimum uplift) is that percentage increases gradually increase the gap between the highest paid and lowest paid. The underpin is an attempt to stop that gap from widening too far. I'm not sure why higher grade members object to that (if what @Signal_Box says is really the reason that it has been turned down)

I think there is the fear , rightly so of 'Wage Compression' at the bottom at the scale

if you look at the NHS 'Agenda for Change' (AfC) pay scale , compared to it's introduction in in the mid 2000s , band 1 is not closed ( and residual band 1 staff are on the same as band 2 ) Band 2 now only has a single pay point which is the adult NMW/NLW ( or in some places a higher RLW (real living wage) of 12.00gbp/hr rate)
the lower pay point in Band 3 is a few pence an hour more than the NMW/ NLW or in some trusts the RLW and there is only one further pay point in band 3

band 4 now only has 2 pay points
This demonstrates significant pay compression compared to the past.

Pay scales for 2023/24 [Historical]

NHS terms and conditions annual, hourly and HCAS pay values scales for 2023/24

www.nhsemployers.org

 

[GardenRail]

I think there is the fear , rightly so of 'Wage Compression' at the bottom at the scale

if you look at the NHS 'Agenda for Change' (AfC) pay scale , compared to it's introduction in in the mid 2000s , band 1 is not closed ( and residual band 1 staff are on the same as band 2 ) Band 2 now only has a single pay point which is the adult NMW/NLW ( or in some places a higher RLW (real living wage) of 12.00gbp/hr rate)
the lower pay point in Band 3 is a few pence an hour more than the NMW/ NLW or in some trusts the RLW and there is only one further pay point in band 3

band 4 now only has 2 pay points
This demonstrates significant pay compression compared to the past.

Pay scales for 2023/24 [Historical]

NHS terms and conditions annual, hourly and HCAS pay values scales for 2023/24

www.nhsemployers.org

Why why why, do Signallers etc always get compared to NHS..... There couldn't be two more different industries.

 

[En]

Why why why, do Signallers etc always get compared to NHS..... There couldn't be two more different industries.

That is an interesting observation and ultimately irrelevant to the point being discussed , that of wage compression ... there being quite clear and easily illustrated with public documentation examples of wage of compression in AfC

however if you wish to push this point of comparision of role , despite it being at an utter tangent to the discussion of wage compression

-safety / life critical decisions being made by relatively junior staff often reporting to remote and sometimes not qualified to do the job managers

 

[kw12]

I think there is the fear , rightly so of 'Wage Compression' at the bottom at the scale

The salary difference between any two Network Rail employees would not decrease (compress) regardless of whether the underpin applies to both, just one or neither of them. For example:
- if one were currently on £20K (underpin applies) and the other on £40K (no underpin) their salary difference increases by £125 to £20125
- if the underpin applies to neither then their salary difference increases
- if the underpin applies to both then the gap between their salaries remains unchanged

 

[greatkingrat]

But the difference has decreased in real terms.

 

[En]

But the difference has decreased in real terms.

indeed
as as has been seen in many settings the NMW / NLW never mind Real living wage has compressed pay in operative and even first line superviory / intermediate professional grades ( see NHS example given above).
there is of course ( a long standing - see some of the posts in the history and nostalgia board about BR era pay grading) the situation where at the change over point between wages and salried or at 'Supervisory' to 'Management' where unsocialble hours allowances and/or overtime either disappears or becomes much reduced ( eg. in NHS AfC at the transition from Band 7 to the Band 8 grades , although In Nursing in particualr you used to see and still do to some extent Staff nurses ( band 5) working 24/7 rotas earning as much or more than Band 6 amnd 7 Masnagerial Nursing roles who worked a mainly 'in hours' pattern ...

 

[156gricer]

Any news on the band 1-4 pay rise for this year?

 

[mcmad]

Any news on the band 1-4 pay rise for this year?

Won't be any progress until the band 5-8 pay rise is finished

 

[james_the_xv]

Any news on the band 1-4 pay rise for this year?

Doesn't normally get considered until after 5-8s - although I have heard a rumour that the TSSA will be asking for 6.5%.

 

[demigod19]

Any idea as to what could the salary hike for 5-8s grade be as 3.5% or 1275 GBP ( whichever is higher) offer from NR has been rejected by RMT?

 

[The Puddock]

Any news on the band 1-4 pay rise for this year?

Won't be any progress until the band 5-8 pay rise is finished

All NR pay talks suspended during the election campaign apparently.

 

[D Williams]

Anyway, regardless of what has gone before it'll soon be "beer and sandwiches" in No 10 as the union leaders are welcomed to Downing Street and their wage demands are met. Back to the days of Harold Wilson!

 

[Falcon1200]

Has Sir Keir, or anyone else senior in Labour, actually said, or been asked, what they will do to resolve the ongoing pay disputes in the rail industry, and the NHS?

 

[GardenRail]

Has Sir Keir, or anyone else senior in Labour, actually said, or been asked, what they will do to resolve the ongoing pay disputes in the rail industry, and the NHS?

Everyone's problems will be over with Labour in power. The Unions will get RPI rises, as will everyone in every job in the UK.

Sadly, on a serious note, everyone will be sadly disappointed with no movement in disputes or pay rises. Everyone will still have to fight for a pay increase, just like now. But weirdly, the general population will still broadcast how amazing a Labour Government are..... Especially in old mining communities.

The only people who will get any benefit of Labour are people in receipt of benefits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2024 ==

Anyway, regardless of what has gone before it'll soon be "beer and sandwiches" in No 10 as the union leaders are welcomed to Downing Street and their wage demands are met. Back to the days of Harold Wilson!

Haha. Sarcasm, I like it. Sadly I think some people actually believe this. Life, is simply going to be absolutely spiffing under Labour..... They will be no better than the Conservatives with regards workers Pay, and T&C's in reality.

 

[muz379]

Anyway, regardless of what has gone before it'll soon be "beer and sandwiches" in No 10 as the union leaders are welcomed to Downing Street and their wage demands are met. Back to the days of Harold Wilson!

I dont think anybody actually thinks it is going to be all sunshine and roses with a Labour government , especially not for a union like the RMT that are not even affiliated to the labour party . But what I think is seinsble to expect is that there will at least be a better environment for negotiating in , the government might actually be interested in brokering a resolution rather than wasting time in parliament on anti strike laws that don't even work and making daft threats to pass legislation to change terms and conditions of a group of workers .

Of course if they also keep true on some of their promises around the trade union act 2016 then theyll also make it easier for an industrial dispute to take place .

Of course only time will really tell , but if Labour do form the next government and are serious about their plans to deliver renationalisation then they will find that a lot easier if industrials relations are somewhat improved .

 

[En]

I dont think anybody actually thinks it is going to be all sunshine and roses with a Labour government , especially not for a union like the RMT that are not even affiliated to the labour party . But what I think is seinsble to expect is that there will at least be a better environment for negotiating in , the government might actually be interested in brokering a resolution rather than wasting time in parliament on anti strike laws that don't even work and making daft threats to pass legislation to change terms and conditions of aalll group of workers .

Of course if they also keep true on some of their promises around the trade union act 2016 then theyll also make it easier for an industrial dispute to take place .

Of course only time will really tell , but if Labour do form the next government and are serious about their plans to deliver renationalisation then they will find that a lot easier if industrials relations are somewhat improved .

All the above.
the fundamental problem is that the Selfservatives, while lining their own pockets have sold a lie to the public at large aobut 'greed' among staff such as the 999 services and the NHS as well as the narratvie of the rail unions holding the TOCs , Tfl and the government 'to ransom'

 

[D Williams]

"One man's pay rise is another man's price rise". Harold Wilson , sometime in the 1960's.

 

[Mag_seven]

All NR pay talks suspended during the election campaign apparently.

With that fact in mind we will draw this discussion to a close pending further developments after the election.

Thanks all.