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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

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Typhoon

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nw1 said:
Meanwhile, to get back to the current government:

www.theguardian.com

MoJ staff offered ‘route out’ amid concerns over Dominic Raab behaviour

Exclusive: Some civil servants may have still been traumatised by his previous stint there, sources say
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Allegations about Raab not dissimilar to the previous allegations about Patel.
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Interesting quote from the article (last para)
An MoJ spokesperson said: “There is zero tolerance for bullying across the civil service. The deputy prime minister leads a professional department, driving forward major reforms, where civil servants are valued and the level of ambition is high.”
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No one is questioning the civil servants; it is the Secretary of State who appears to be the problem. Unfortunately, the approach adopted by Raab just seems to be an exaggerated version of what is going on far and wide. Raab and others need to consider how they are showing staff members that they are valued. Too many who rise to high places seem to think that shouting, belittling and rudeness gets the best out of the workforce (potential Ministers reading this - they don't). Ministers in all administrations, but, seemingly, particularly the most recent ones, seem to have no clue about how to manage people, perhaps because the likes of Raab have no experience of being 'managed'.

This is not the first time that they have been suspicions about Raab.
In 2007, while Raab was working as chief of staff to Tory MP David Davis, the two men entered into a “compromise agreement” with a woman who had worked in their office.

According to publicly available court documents, the woman received a sum “in consideration for the confidentiality obligations” she agreed with Raab and Davis.
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He denied bullying and the amount of the 'compromise agreement' is not known (stories that it was in the region of £20,000 were met with a lawsuit).

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/dominic-raab-nda-tory-leadership
 
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yorksrob

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There will always be the odd bad apple, but these revelations about multiple high ranking members suggest a party not fit to govern.
 
brad465

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Typhoon said:
Interesting quote from the article (last para)

No one is questioning the civil servants; it is the Secretary of State who appears to be the problem. Unfortunately, the approach adopted by Raab just seems to be an exaggerated version of what is going on far and wide. Raab and others need to consider how they are showing staff members that they are valued. Too many who rise to high places seem to think that shouting, belittling and rudeness gets the best out of the workforce (potential Ministers reading this - they don't). Ministers in all administrations, but, seemingly, particularly the most recent ones, seem to have no clue about how to manage people, perhaps because the likes of Raab have no experience of being 'managed'.

This is not the first time that they have been suspicions about Raab.

He denied bullying and the amount of the 'compromise agreement' is not known (stories that it was in the region of £20,000 were met with a lawsuit).

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/dominic-raab-nda-tory-leadership
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The Sun are now reporting that Raab is accused of chucking tomatoes across a room in rage against MoJ staff.
 
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takno

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Seems like a lot of the appeal of Boris was that he was at least superficially the sort of person you might like to go down the pub with. These lunatics seem like the sort of people who'd punch the bar staff, get you barred, and then complain that you spoiled their evening
 
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Lost property

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takno said:
Seems like a lot of the appeal of Boris was that he was at least superficially the sort of person you might like to go down the pub with. These lunatics seem like the sort of people who'd punch the bar staff, get you barred, and then complain that you spoiled their evening
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Given Boris is notorious for never paying for anything, this would not be a good idea....along with who, in their right mind, would look forward to a raging narcissus telling everybody about himself for social company....the, aptly termed, lunatics seem to have been more engaged in an open contest for "if you think you're a bully, well just watch me ! "
 
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nw1

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SteveM70 said:
Raab apparently insists on a Pret salad for his lunch but doesn’t like tomatoes
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This reminds me a bit of Jeremy Clarkson and his steak.

Of course Raab is much worse than Clarkson: a) he appears to have no sense of humour and b) he is in a position of power.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

WizCastro197 said:
I wonder if Sunak was aware again.
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While I don't know either way, it would not surprise me in the slightest if the answer is Yes.
 
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Maybe Hancock is hoping that if he grins and bears it while he goes through all the various challenges, people will remember them and think he is a good sport: they will then forget about everything else he has done. I think he is misjudging the public, like many of his (at the time of writing) party, as the level of contempt and dislike for him is just too deep.
 
yorksrob

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Which seems to me to be wrong to direct distain at individuals.

It is the party that is rotten to the core and holding back Britain. We should avoid demonising individuals and concentrate on the real problem - the Tory party.
 
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yorksrob said:
Which seems to me to be wrong to direct distain at individuals.

It is the party that is rotten to the core and holding back Britain. We should avoid demonising individuals and concentrate on the real problem - the Tory party.
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On the contrary, disdain for Hancock is well founded. His appearances on two reality shows are just an attempt to distract the public away from his actions as Health Minister...and the countless deaths that resulted, plus openly lying about PPE...don't forget, there's a Covid inquiry under way and Hancock isn't going to be able to exonerate himself, likewise Sunak and Boris.

He's finished as an MP. thankfully, and this new "career " as a "celebrity " should only have a short shelf life. At the moment, he's still fresh, and raw !...in peoples minds but the public won't be interested in whatever stunts he decides to try and use to project his new "career" for ever.

As for the current Tory party being rotten...think of a swamp, pretty flowers on the top....and a morass of stinking rotten vegetation underneath.
 
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nw1

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yorksrob said:
Which seems to me to be wrong to direct distain at individuals.

It is the party that is rotten to the core and holding back Britain. We should avoid demonising individuals and concentrate on the real problem - the Tory party.
Click to expand...

My thoughts pretty much, though perhaps certain individuals still in power should be the target of robust criticism.

Matt Hancock, as a minister, is basically in the past. While Hancock may have been a justifiable target of anger a year or two ago, there are other people far more worthy of anger being directed at them right now.

If one wants to direct anger at certain MPs, then why not choose people allegedly, or actually, doing bad things right now (in various different ways), and still in cabinet positions - included, but not limited to, Hunt, Raab and Braverman.

Poking fun at Hancock, and watching him be subjected to trials in the jungle, is fine, but the kind of stuff that Tory MPs, and his local Tory party branch, are coming out with against him seems to be beyond that and more like bullying. It's symptomatic of the stomach-churning, cringe-inducing loyalty and obedience demanded of its MPs by the "borg" that is the Conservative Party. Blindly follow the party line like a compliant sheep, and if you do not, you will be punished. Severely.

This isn't supposed to be an excessive defence of Hancock by the way. I still don't like his hypocrisy over Covid rules, and his "It's the National Health Service, not the International Health Service" electioneering tweet in 2019. But he is certainly far from Public Enemy Number One right now. The Government, in the form of penny-pinching austerity, is threatening to unleash misery on millions. Is Hancock?
 
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nw1

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Looking at Twitter (yeah, I know) and what's worrying is that the loudest voices against Sunak are not from Labour supporting, left-wing, liberal, anti-austerity pro-EU types (which is what I would expect), but rather from ultra-right-wing foaming-at-the-mouth MAGA-like extremists going on about fixing climate change being a waste of money, and Sunak being in thrall to the EU, or something.

Given Sunak originally didn't want to attend COP27, and is a Brexiter, I honestly don't understand what they are wittering on about. In thinking that he is some kind of bleeding-heart liberal, the far right really do seem to be living in a parallel universe of their own.
 
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takno

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nw1 said:
Looking at Twitter (yeah, I know) and what's worrying is that the loudest voices against Sunak are not from Labour supporting, left-wing, liberal, anti-austerity pro-EU types (which is what I would expect), but rather from ultra-right-wing foaming-at-the-mouth MAGA-like extremists going on about fixing climate change being a waste of money, and Sunak being in thrall to the EU, or something.

Given Sunak originally didn't want to attend COP27, and is a Brexiter, I honestly don't understand what they are wittering on about. In thinking that he is some kind of bleeding-heart liberal, the far right really do seem to be living in a parallel universe of their own.
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It is weird how many people have bought into the idea that anybody to the left of suella braverman is a dangerous communist. I mean even discounting the bots there must be hundreds, and likely thousands, of people who are that deranged
 
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takno said:
It is weird how many people have bought into the idea that anybody to the left of suella braverman is a dangerous communist. I mean even discounting the bots there must be hundreds, and likely thousands, of people who are that deranged
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I think there are a lot of people whose priorities are different from yours and mine, and possibly they're not very clever, or at least they don't invest effort into testing claims of politicians against reality and are happy to be convinced by the propaganda.
I think they're entitled to do this. I may not think highly of them if they do, but in what way I am "right" and they are "wrong", it's just part of my training as a scientist to understand hypotheses and then test them against reality, which might make them more believable or it might not.
There are a lot of people who vote and whose priorities and their resulting conclusions I believe to be wrong, ill-advised, ill-considered or just plain stupid.
But anyone wanting our votes has to be aware of their constituencies, and I'm sure there are relatively right-wing MPs who don't totally believe their clap-trap, such as saying that people are dangerous communists, but they don't care because it gets them elected whereas a more conciliatory approach would not.
 
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Busaholic

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nw1 said:
Looking at Twitter (yeah, I know) and what's worrying is that the loudest voices against Sunak are not from Labour supporting, left-wing, liberal, anti-austerity pro-EU types (which is what I would expect), but rather from ultra-right-wing foaming-at-the-mouth MAGA-like extremists going on about fixing climate change being a waste of money, and Sunak being in thrall to the EU, or something.

Given Sunak originally didn't want to attend COP27, and is a Brexiter, I honestly don't understand what they are wittering on about. In thinking that he is some kind of bleeding-heart liberal, the far right really do seem to be living in a parallel universe of their own.
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Could his personal history and antecedents perhaps impinge on their reaction?
 
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Gloster said:
Maybe Hancock is hoping that if he grins and bears it while he goes through all the various challenges, people will remember them and think he is a good sport: they will then forget about everything else he has done. I think he is misjudging the public, like many of his (at the time of writing) party, as the level of contempt and dislike for him is just too deep.
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You say that, but there are definitely some who have been won over already (more than I was expecting, judging from Twitter/TikTok comments and some social circles).
 
birchesgreen

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BJames said:
You say that, but there are definitely some who have been won over already (more than I was expecting, judging from Twitter/TikTok comments and some social circles).
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Exactly, its why the whole thing is so despicable. I would say i'll never watch ITV again, but i never do anyway.
 
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BJames said:
You say that, but there are definitely some who have been won over already (more than I was expecting, judging from Twitter/TikTok comments and some social circles).
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They probably watch all forms of reality tv anyway, and believed Boris and his "promises " in 2019....and avidly read the Express. Thankfully, not all the population are as gullible.
 
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brad465 said:
Here are all the former UK Prime Ministers at the Cenotaph; of the 7 pictured, 3 (or 4 depending on definition) date back just 6 years:

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Twenty to twenty-five years' time, because of infirmity and demise, a similar photograph might begin with (from the right) Cameron and a rather stooping and thinning, but still recognisable, Johnson. Then will be the person few will be able to put a name too. Commentators might even have to add that she was prime minister in 2022. She has got that event in her diary for the next thirty to forty years, when the public will be reminded of how her short a period of office she served. Kwarteng will long have been forgotten.
This will be a heavy price for putting ambition before ability. It will the lack of the latter which will mean that she will struggle to find another meaningful role. May will always be able to command an audience as a competent Home Secretary (compare with successors), Johnson will make a fortune with lectures (showing that some organisations have too much money at their disposal), Cameron will have the links to find another role if he wants one. But, Truss?
 
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