"reverse formation"....

[big al]

Very occasionally the Manchester - London Euston service is in reverse formation. How does this happen? Is there a route which is a loop instead of a terminus or is there just one set on the network thats back to front?!?!

 

[WestCountry]

Very occasionally the Manchester - London Euston service is in reverse formation. How does this happen? Is there a route which is a loop instead of a terminus or is there just one set on the network thats back to front?!?!

Nothing used in regular service AFAIK, but there are all sorts of ways that a set can get reversed around Birmingham. Also near Glasgow, and I think the Newton-le-Willows electification creates a possible (if unlikely) electrified loop through Manchester.

 

[455driver]

Normally happens more on a Monday after weekend diversions which might not actually have to be an electrified route!

They do try and get the trains turned back around as quickly as is practical.

 

[harz99]

Normally happens more on a Monday after weekend diversions which might not actually have to be an electrified route!

They do try and get the trains turned back around as quickly as is practical.

There was a southbound Pendolino in reverse formation (and announced manually on the station system as such) at LAN, around 1850/1900 last night as I was waiting to go north on the 1908.

 

[JB25]

I don't get what people mean by reverse formation here?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Traditionally on Virgin Trains services First Class is always at the London end - reverse formation refers to the event where this isn't the case.

 

[gnolife]

I don't get what people mean by reverse formation here?

First Class, which is normally at the London end of the train (for most London TOCS), turning up at the other end of the train, due to being turned around by a diversion.

 

[455driver]

The train is the wrong way round.

On long distance routes the 1st class is normally at the London end of the train but for whatever reason the train has ended up being turned around and the 1st class is now at the Country end.

Edit-

Snap and snap!

 

[mildertduck]

A common one on East Coast is when a set terminating at Newcastle enters / exits (but not both) the station via the High Level Bridge.

 

[jopsuk]

"1st class at the London end" is normal for, as far as I know:
Greater Anglia: Norwich Mark 3 sets (with the loco at the 1st class end), Class 379s- 360s and 321s as well? Not 317s...
East Coast: Both HST and electrics
EMT: Meridians and HSTs
Virgin: Pendolinos, Super Voyagers, the Pretendolino (with loco at the other end)
Scotrail: Sleepers, each "half train".
Chiltern: "business zone"?
FGW: HSTs- not sure about Turbos?
SouthWestTrains: 444 and 158/159

The other trains around London: a collection of "no first class", "not bothered", "1st class in an intermediate coach" and "1st class at both ends of the unit"

 

[edwin_m]

EMT frequently has First at the non-London end, probably because trains that enter/exit Nottingham northwards, or to/from Derby or Central Rivers, end up the wrong way round.

 

[SeanG]

"1st class at the London end" is normal for, as far as I know:
Greater Anglia: Norwich Mark 3 sets (with the loco at the 1st class end),

Loco on GA is always at the London end.

This is unusual because most main lines into London the loco is at the country end (GWML/WCML/MML/ECML). This was because the main depot was in London, so its easy to perform a loco swap.
However, the main depot for the GAML is Crown Point, to the south of Norwich station, so it is easier this way

 

[Jones]

The 05:14 from Bangor to Euston Last Monday was reversed. Any Idea how?

 

[Qwerty133]

"1st class at the London end" is normal for, as far as I know:
EMT: Meridians and HSTs

However on average around 50% are in reverse formation

 

[MCR247]

"1st class at the London end" is normal for, as far as I know:

EMT: Meridians and HSTs

EMT don't bother trying since sets get turned so often because of Nottingham that it would be futile

 

[poshfan]

"1st class at the London end" is normal for, as far as I know:
Scotrail: Sleepers, each "half train".

With the two Fort William sleeping cars in the Highland sleeper, the first class coach is normally the last coach at the country end with the second class being the second to last and nearer to London.

 

[455driver]

With the two Fort William sleeping cars in the Highland sleeper, the first class coach is normally the last coach at the country end with the second class being the second to last and nearer to London.

Wow you managed to find a train which doesnt comply with the basic rules! :roll:

I dont think a train that splits into 3? seperate parts en route is a good example to use!

 

[ExRes]

Does a 12 car 455 split into 3 parts ?

 

[Nippy]

Loco on GA is always at the London end.

This is unusual because most main lines into London the loco is at the country end (GWML/WCML/MML/ECML). This was because the main depot was in London, so its easy to perform a loco swap.
However, the main depot for the GAML is Crown Point, to the south of Norwich station, so it is easier this way

Er on the GWML, the locos are usually on both ends........

 

[jopsuk]

With the two Fort William sleeping cars in the Highland sleeper, the first class coach is normally the last coach at the country end with the second class being the second to last and nearer to London.

Of five sections, that's the exception (I'm ignoring the seated coaches as well).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Er on the GWML, the locos are usually on both ends........

Quite. Only Chiltern/WCML/ECML/GEML that have used loco+DBSO/DVT. The others, in loco hauled days, had a loco on the front regardless (eg Sleepers now on GWML!)

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Just musing - whatever the practicalities of the "1st Class at the London end" arrangement actually are, I wonder what kind of message this tradition may be sending unintentionally to the rest of the country?

Of course, the other way of looking at it is that, as the "locomotive" (or whatever passes for one these days) is at the front or "country" end of the train, the 1st class accommodation is at the *rse end of the train coming from London.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Just musing - whatever the practicalities of the "1st Class at the London end" arrangement actually are, I wonder what kind of message this tradition may be sending unintentionally to the rest of the country?

Of course, the other way of looking at it is that, as the "locomotive" (or whatever passes for one these days) is at the front or "country" end of the train, the 1st class accommodation is at the *rse end of the train coming from London.

Yes, well that's one way of putting it,

What about Grand Central?, I have seen some of their trains with FC at the Front, or in some cases one at the front and one at the back?

I think Hull trains FC and some non 125 FGW may be in the middle.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Yes, well that's one way of putting it,

What about Grand Central?, I have seen some of their trains with FC at the Front, or in some cases one at the front and one at the back?

I think Hull trains FC and some non 125 FGW may be in the middle.

Hull Trains and Grand Central class 180s have first class in one of the non-driving vehicles. One of the Grand Central HSTs has an extra first class vehicle but I think it might be declassified. I rather suspect that because the Grand Central HSTs are maintained at Heaton, that they can be reversed at Newcastle. I think First class tends to be towards the London end though.

 

[SeanG]

Er on the GWML, the locos are usually on both ends........

Not in the days of 47's and earlier....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does a 12 car 455 split into 3 parts ?

Not chuckled like that in a long time

 

[Nippy]

Not in the days of 47's and earlier....

Obviously, but we aren't talking about then......

 

[lj9090]

Does anyone know why SWT have stopped turning their 444s back the right way?

They used to be quite good at this and I'd see only the odd one on a monday morning, but since about Christmas time roughly half the fleet is running in reverse.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Just musing - whatever the practicalities of the "1st Class at the London end" arrangement actually are, I wonder what kind of message this tradition may be sending unintentionally to the rest of the country?

I know you are saying that with tongue firmly in cheek, but the logic of having first class at the London end is sound. If you pay more for your your ticket then you get to be closest to the way out when the train terminates and you don't have to walk as far for your seat when it's time to go home.

 

[fgwrich]

Does anyone know why SWT have stopped turning their 444s back the right way?

They used to be quite good at this and I'd see only the odd one on a monday morning, but since about Christmas time roughly half the fleet is running in reverse.

It's something i've noticed as well, however it might actually be down to the amount of Engineering work and blockcades across the SWT network going on at the moment - what with the landslip on the Portsmouth Direct requiring sets to run via Botley and since the landslip at Botley requiring services to reverse at St Denys / Southampton Down Goods Loop.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed today a VT Voyager navigating the triangle at Chester.
Obviously this is to reverse the formation before returning to London.
However I didn't think they were that bothered with Voyagers, as it hardly matters with a single set, and if it is a double set the two first class portions will be separated by a block of standard class anyway.

 

[cf111]

The 1st class end being at the London end is great when boarding or alighting the Highland Chieftain at Kings Cross, not so good when walking the length of a HST in the pouring rain at Inverness .