Remote working preferences (in the longer term)

[Bletchleyite]

Next week I will start a new job. I will join a team of people I have never met(apart from the boss) who until recently worked with each other in an office 5 days a week. Have you got any tips?

A daily online status meeting, ideally at the start of the day, is an absolute must. Make sure that meeting isn't just a formalised standup and does include a bit of time for social chit chat. Maybe have more than one. We mostly don't use video, but that can help.

 

[3rd rail land]

This is just not true, from someone who has worked remotely for many years. It's more difficult, but it is possible.

Spot on. There are people in my team I work with who I have never met. Sure, it would nice to meet up at some point but not necessary at all.

Once travel restrictions are lifted I fully expect the team management to want us to all meet up and I would enjoy that depending on the location. To date we've only ever all met up in Croydon which is a dull place full of loads of grey bland office buildings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Spot on. There are people in my team I work with who I have never met. Sure, it would nice to meet up at some point but not necessary at all.

Once travel restrictions are lifted I fully expect the team management to want us to all meet up and I would enjoy that depending on the location. To date we've only ever all met up in Croydon which is a dull place full of loads of grey bland office buildings.

The one thing I'll admit is weird is knowing someone quite well but not knowing what they look like! But to be honest, if you listen to a particular radio show regularly that's just another example of that. And you could always switch the video on (though I find screenshare more useful, to be honest).

 

[3rd rail land]

A daily online status meeting, ideally at the start of the day, is an absolute must. Make sure that meeting isn't just a formalised standup and does include a bit of time for social chit chat. Maybe have more than one. We mostly don't use video, but that can help.

I do this. Not with the whole team as that used to take too long and people started discussing things that weren't relevant to a lot people. In my case we do one for 15 minutes that includes data centre and WAN as well as end user compute. We never use video and I am not sure some people's internet could handle video based on the quality of some audio in these calls. We have a weekly full team round robin and the smaller standup 4 times a week.

The one thing I'll admit is weird is knowing someone quite well but not knowing what they look like! But to be honest, if you listen to a particular radio show regularly that's just another example of that. And you could always switch the video on (though I find screenshare more useful, to be honest).

People usually include a Skype profile picture so you can easily figure out who is who when you do get to meet up. It's easy to fill in the blanks for people who don't use a profile picture. That said we are utilising Mattermost/Jitsi more and nobody has yet put a picture of themselves as their profile picture. Video is an option but again I don't think some people's internet could handle it. The odd things for me is not knowing anything about some people beyond what but of the country they live in and what they specialise in.

 

[northernchris]

A daily online status meeting, ideally at the start of the day, is an absolute must. Make sure that meeting isn't just a formalised standup and does include a bit of time for social chit chat. Maybe have more than one. We mostly don't use video, but that can help.

When lockdown first came in we did a 30 minute call each day to check in, but was dropped after a couple of weeks as they were very repetitive. Now there's one check in a week, a team call which is usually around 90 minutes and a 30 minute 'coffee morning' once a week where work chat is banned. It's a good balance and as most of the team work flexibly it's a good way of ensuring you have contact with everyone at least once a week

 

[yorksrob]

Having been working from home for around 11 weeks now, I do find that without the social buzz of the office, or the prospect of a trip to the dales any time soon, my motivation is beginning to wane.

 

[Bantamzen]

Having been working from home for around 11 weeks now, I do find that without the social buzz of the office, or the prospect of a trip to the dales any time soon, my motivation is beginning to wane.

I'm in the same boat, I am even starting to miss the commute. Working from home can have it's benefits, but not when you end up staring at the same walls for much of the day. I think when things start to even out, I am still going to get to the office at least a couple of times a week.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm in the same boat, I am even starting to miss the commute. Working from home can have it's benefits, but not when you end up staring at the same walls for much of the day. I think when things start to even out, I am still going to get to the office at least a couple of times a week.

Absolutely. Assuming my employers haven't sold it.

 

[Bantamzen]

Absolutely. Assuming my employers haven't sold it.

That's always going to be a possibility for some companies, I can see a lot scaling back their estates in the coming years. My office is a large public sector hub, so probably less likely to go although with new offices going up in Leeds it might be that we eventually move to one of these as even the public sector will probably look to consolidate it's estate if home working becomes a more permanent solution.

 

[yorksrob]

That's always going to be a possibility for some companies, I can see a lot scaling back their estates in the coming years. My office is a large public sector hub, so probably less likely to go although with new offices going up in Leeds it might be that we eventually move to one of these as even the public sector will probably look to consolidate it's estate if home working becomes a more permanent solution.

Ours have been downsizing for ages. That said, it's not going to be such a sellers market going out of this.

 

[westv]

Having been working from home for around 11 weeks now, I do find that without the social buzz of the office, or the prospect of a trip to the dales any time soon, my motivation is beginning to wane.

Unlike the other offices I have worked in, the current one is often like a library so I haven't missed it at all nor have I missed the travelling expenses. On the other hand I've not been able to meet up with the friends I know in the London area.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having been working from home for around 11 weeks now, I do find that without the social buzz of the office, or the prospect of a trip to the dales any time soon, my motivation is beginning to wane.

But would a couple of days a week be the optimum rather than every day? That's what I've tended to prefer when it's been an option, even if it involves a quite long journey and early start/late return home.

 

[yorksrob]

Unlike the other offices I have worked in, the current one is often like a library so I haven't missed it at all nor have I missed the travelling expenses. On the other hand I've not been able to meet up with the friends I know in the London area.

But would a couple of days a week be the optimum rather than every day? That's what I've tended to prefer when it's been an option, even if it involves a quite long journey and early start/late return home.

I think I could be sustained with maybe one or two trips to the office a week.

Not compressed hours - the ordinary working day is long enough.

 

[NorthOxonian]

My view on this is from an outside perspective - I haven't actually entered the workforce yet. However, from my point of view, in addition to other points raised, working from home is likely to make training and induction much more difficult. If most jobs are mainly remote by the time I graduate, how will I develop the sorts of skills you can only really build face to face. And it will be much harder to create a particular culture within a business or organisation if workers are dispersed at home and aren't interacting with each other - which could make it much harder for managers to turn around dysfunctional workplaces.

 

[BJames]

My view on this is from an outside perspective - I haven't actually entered the workforce yet. However, from my point of view, in addition to other points raised, working from home is likely to make training and induction much more difficult. If most jobs are mainly remote by the time I graduate, how will I develop the sorts of skills you can only really build face to face. And it will be much harder to create a particular culture within a business or organisation if workers are dispersed at home and aren't interacting with each other - which could make it much harder for managers to turn around dysfunctional workplaces.

I am in the same position and this is exactly what I've been thinking as well.

But to answer the general thread question, I would only really be happy working from home one or two days a week at the very most.

Having been working from home for around 11 weeks now, I do find that without the social buzz of the office, or the prospect of a trip to the dales any time soon, my motivation is beginning to wane.

And this is the reason for my answer.

 

[6862]

First day of a new month of 'working' from home. I can't do my work effectively from home (I am a PhD student who used to work in a lab pre-COVID-19). The building where I used to work is starting to reopen today but will only be able to accomodate 20 % of the people who used to work there. Notice I use past tense, because the consensus seems to be that 20 % occupancy is the maximum, and even with shifts possibly being introduced it's hard to see how they can avoid having to lose more than half the people in the department. I am one of the 80 % who are currently not allowed to work, and I am also not eligible to be included in any potential shift working.

Others have mentioned a loss of motivation after a long period of working from home, I too am feeling this. It genuinely makes no difference to anyone or anything whether I do any work these days, as my main aim is to make my limited amounts of work last for as long as possible. As a country we have put ourselves into a ridiculous situation where we have cut our capacity do to or achieve anything significant in science and technology (except test people for the virus) to the extent that restarting is virtually impossible. All this for a virus with a low fatality rate, especially among the young and healthy, who are most likely to be involved in these fields. I think soon we will start to see a 'brain drain' effect, not of people migrating to other countries to work (obviously that's no longer possible), but of educated people unable to use their skills, who will end up working in jobs that they are overqualified for (that's if there are any jobs available, which there probably won't be). Personally I don't expect to have my current position for much longer, if this madness continues.

 

[philjo]

We have been told to assume that the majority of staff who can work from home will be doing so until at least September.

 

[Starmill]

No change for me. A day a week, ish, supplemented by ad hoc hours, work while travelling on trains and at key business meetings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speak for your self. My work from home won't be running out.

There are considerable numbers of office workers who perfectly viably can work from home. Up until this issue, the lack of infrastructure and the lack of trust or proper management was the reason they weren't doing so. Call centres are an excellent example, and people doing that from home may mean more acceptance of awkward or split shifts, too, because they may actually suit people when no commute is required.

There are some who are presently only able to do a half-job even with those changes - they will of course head back once they can.

But a lot of it is cultural. In my previous employer, I sat at a desk in an office and mostly worked with people in the US remotely. Ever since ADSL became a thing (mid 2000s) it's been feasible for me to work fully remotely from home and I sometimes did (I sometimes even did it via dial-up - most business applications are not bandwidth intensive). The culture, however, was that if employees aren't on site they can't be trusted. This is now shifting - indeed, I was on one long multi-phase project between 2010 and 2018, and during that project we switched fully from "you must be on site" to "you must not be on site because we don't want to pay for the facilities".

The genie will not fully go back in the bottle, I'm certain. The only question is to what extent.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Well , one of mine works for a large office in Mllton Keynes - drives for now and does 3x10 hour working days , blocks of 3 with one weekend day off and a bit of home infilling in between. Works really well.

The other of mine has now been working from home - worked well , but from next week will do a week in the London office - then a week at home etc. Much of it is to re-work the important needs of engaging with real people - both clients and management.

Interesting that one no longer needs an annual season , but will purchase weekly point to point tickets. The other has no need of a season for now. I am mulling if my London commuter needs to reserve seats on Thameslink North as some people think this is important , if nor crucial.

Talking to friend an relatives - the whole pattern of "commuting" is critically changed. Mind you - after several decades of Thamesliink (admittedly free travel) - it is a something I never really enjoyed. Others who do pay - express little desire to get on the 07xx treadmill again - at least not daily. ,

 

[yorksrob]

during that project we switched fully from "you must be on site" to "you must not be on site because we don't want to pay for the facilities".

Always feast or famine !

I think that a team needs to work together some of the time. That's how you get to know the people you're working with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Always feast or famine !

I think that a team needs to work together some of the time. That's how you get to know the people you're working with.

You can do it working remotely, but it is good to meet up for drinks etc as this makes it a lot easier. I think 2-3 days a week could become the "new normal" for London commuting. I certainly find that far less wearing, you have far more time to yourself, don't end up getting to Friday seriously sleep-deprived and yet still have the social contact. And the effect of that could be a 30-50% drop in peak medium-distance commuter demand (almost all medium-distance commuting is office professionals, blue collar commuting tends to be much shorter as the lower pay makes season tickets unaffordable), which would make operating the likes of LNR, the non-suburban bits of Southern/SWR/Southeastern and Thameslink far, far cheaper.

 

[yorksrob]

You can do it working remotely, but it is good to meet up for drinks etc as this makes it a lot easier. I think 2-3 days a week could become the "new normal" for London commuting. I certainly find that far less wearing, you have far more time to yourself, don't end up getting to Friday seriously sleep-deprived and yet still have the social contact. And the effect of that could be a 30-50% drop in peak medium-distance commuter demand (almost all medium-distance commuting is office professionals, blue collar commuting tends to be much shorter as the lower pay makes season tickets unaffordable), which would make operating the likes of LNR, the non-suburban bits of Southern/SWR/Southeastern and Thameslink far, far cheaper.

It's not the same remotely !

To be fair, I agree it would be good to take some of the heat out of the commuting demand into the cities. So long as everyone doesn't choose Monday and Friday to work from home !

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not the same remotely !

To be fair, I agree it would be good to take some of the heat out of the commuting demand into the cities. So long as everyone doesn't choose Monday and Friday to work from home !

I think Friday is a given (loadings are already very low[1]), which is why I suggested looking at 2 out of Mon-Thurs as something to aim at. Monday appears to me to be the busiest day of the week so people aren't doing this now.

[1] To the extent that when the 0713ish (it varies a minute here and there each time the TT changes) Bletchley-Euston, an extended Tring stopper, was an 8-car formation, it would be full, standing and leaving people behind at Watford Monday-Thursday, but there would be seats for everyone on a Friday. So probably about a 50% reduction.

 

[yorksrob]

I think Friday is a given (loadings are already very low), which is why I suggested looking at 2 out of Mon-Thurs as something to aim at. Monday appears to me to be the busiest day of the week so people aren't doing this now.

Mondays a little quieter on my commute !

 

[nlogax]

We fully expect to be moved to a majority of home-based working for the long term. This situation has forced me to properly equip my home office and make it comfy for permanent use - including a decent chair. Sitting on a leather footstool for weeks on end was not good for the back!

 

[yorksrob]

One things for sure, I don't miss standing on the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One things for sure, I don't miss standing on the train.

I bet nobody does. Daily commuting is grim in just about every way - I've done it and I hated it, it caused me serious stress problems due to unpunctuality and unreliability, lack of sleep and at one point made me consider changing jobs - and I like trains, consider what it would be like for someone who disliked them. However, 2 days a week is quite different - it can be a pleasant day out, and because it's only two days you can consider things like avoiding the evening peak and grabbing a cheeky Nando's before boarding instead, or whatever, or maybe travelling later or earlier (I'm happy to be on the 06bleugh twice a week but definitely not daily).

I think partial home working (3 days to 2, or 2 days to 3) will become the "new normal" - and unlike most usages of that phrase I think it will be a very good thing for pretty much everyone - even the railway.

 

[Hadders]

I am mulling if my London commuter needs to reserve seats on Thameslink North as some people think this is important , if nor crucial.

No seat reservations of Thameslink as far as I know.

 

[yorksrob]

I bet nobody does. Daily commuting is grim in just about every way - I've done it and I hated it, it caused me serious stress problems due to unpunctuality and unreliability, lack of sleep and at one point made me consider changing jobs - and I like trains, consider what it would be like for someone who disliked them. However, 2 days a week is quite different - it can be a pleasant day out, and because it's only two days you can consider things like avoiding the evening peak and grabbing a cheeky Nando's before boarding instead, or whatever, or maybe travelling later or earlier (I'm happy to be on the 06bleugh twice a week but definitely not daily).

I think partial home working (3 days to 2, or 2 days to 3) will become the "new normal" - and unlike most usages of that phrase I think it will be a very good thing for pretty much everyone - even the railway.

For many many years, I always used to get the slow train and get a seat, and in those days enjoyed my trip in.

Then my employer started going in for all this hot desking malarkey and it became increasingly difficult to get my spot in the office with my immediate friends. I ended up coming in earlier to get my seat, which meant getting the earlier train which was always standing room only by my stop.

So really, home working ruined my commute !