Reliability: TPE 350/4

[Class377/5]

My suspicion is that Ardwick are still getting used to the type as are the train crews. So the people maintaining them aren't yet fully clued up on how to keep them in tip top condition in the same way that LM depots are. Also both train crew and depot staff are probably erring on the side of caution when it comes to faults. So a minor fault that down in LM land would still see a unit in service because everyone knows that this is absolutely fine might well be given much more serious treatment by staff that are new to the type.

Either that or Siemens forgot how to build 350s...

There's been figure pointing that units looked after in Scotland aren't getting the same level of attention as those at Ardwick. Plus the two damaged by an NR engineering train.

I do think the issue of crew knowledge is an important issue as its a significant change from diesel to electric and crews take awhile to get used to them. Same happened on Thameslink with the introduction of the 377s. Its part of the usual introduction issues.

 

[driver9000]

Plus the two damaged by an NR engineering train.

They were back in traffic within a week.

 

[Class377/5]

They were back in traffic within a week.

I know that weren't out for long but point is that they damaged at the same time as a few other issues making the fleet reliability look worse.

 

[northwichcat]

TPE currently have a single 185 on what should be a 8 car 350 diagram and another single 185 on what should be a 4 car 350 diagram, so they only have 6 x 350s in service instead of 9, so that's 1/3 of the 350/4s that should be in service which aren't.

It looks like once the 10:08 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport (which should be 8 car) arrives at Manchester Airport they're going to attach another 185 to it but I imagine other TPE services will suffer this evening as a result.

 

[deltic08]

Had my first ride in a TPEx 350 yesterday from Picc to Carlisle. Having changed out of a 185 from Leeds I found the build quality not as good as a 185 and a little "tinny" and less solid. The vestibule doors on 404 rattled to the point of being irritating and had I not been in 1st class I would have moved to another carriage. I expected acceleration to be a little better than it appeared,

I had planned to return from Carlisle on the 13.33 but that was a single 185 so waited for 350/10 on the 14.30 that arrived Carlisle 6 minutes before time. This was a completely different unit. Acceleration was better and the ride was much better. It did not feel as if we were doing 100mph and 70 across Chat Moss felt as if we were doing about 40mph. Perhaps the factory was better at building by the time they got to 10.

Changing into a 185 again at Picc felt more solid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is very interesting, as build quality on all of LM's 350/1s and 350/2s is second to none.

The ride is a bit dodgy, though, as you might expect from bogies designed for well-fettled German track!

Neil

 

[158756]

TPE currently have a single 185 on what should be a 8 car 350 diagram and another single 185 on what should be a 4 car 350 diagram, so they only have 6 x 350s in service instead of 9, so that's 1/3 of the 350/4s that should be in service which aren't.

It looks like once the 10:08 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport (which should be 8 car) arrives at Manchester Airport they're going to attach another 185 to it but I imagine other TPE services will suffer this evening as a result.

They've now got a 185 instead of a 350, two 185s instead of two 350s and one 350 instead of two. Which suggests four 350s out of service unless they're on the wrong diagrams and the lengthened one's aren't being reported.
The 1709 and 1720 Leeds-Manchester and 1707 Manchester-Liverpool are listed as shortformed also.

 

[harz99]

They've now got a 185 instead of a 350, two 185s instead of two 350s and one 350 instead of two. Which suggests four 350s out of service unless they're on the wrong diagrams and the lengthened one's aren't being reported.
The 1709 and 1720 Leeds-Manchester and 1707 Manchester-Liverpool are listed as shortformed also.

Just got off the 1508 from CAR to GLC which would be 1400 off MIA, single 185.

 

[Erniescooper]

401,405,407 and 409 are all stopped at Ardwick , 403 and 408 made it from Ardwick to Preston this morning and look like they were caped due to brake issues and the rest are in traffic .

 

[harz99]

401,405,407 and 409 are all stopped at Ardwick , 403 and 408 made it from Ardwick to Preston this morning and look like they were caped due to brake issues and the rest are in traffic .

Ouch, over 50% OOS. Something is seriously wrong. I have to admit I am now happier when a 185 turns up than a 350, as I am more confident of getting where I want to be!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

401,405,407 and 409 are all stopped at Ardwick , 403 and 408 made it from Ardwick to Preston this morning and look like they were caped due to brake issues and the rest are in traffic .

Were 403 and 408 working together?

 

[Erniescooper]

403 and 408 were working together.

 

[northwichcat]

Hilary Benn (MP for Leeds) was apparently on one of the North TPE services they short-formed to plug the gap left by the failed 350s.

 

[Starmill]

Let me get this straight - it's a Friday and there are 5 350s out? Shouldn't there be 9 in service on Fridays? I'm currently at Leeds waiting for a Hull - Manchester train, if it's a single 170 like it was last time this happened (that was Friday too) things are going to get interesting.

 

[northwichcat]

Let me get this straight - it's a Friday and there are 5 350s out? Shouldn't there be 9 in service on Fridays? I'm currently at Leeds waiting for a Hull - Manchester train, if it's a single 170 like it was last time this happened (that was Friday too) things are going to get interesting.

No Hull services reported as short-formed here: http://www.journeycheck.com/tpexpress Although, Scarborough and York services are being reported as short-formed.

If Erniescooper's report is correct there are only 4 in service and 6 out-of-service.

 

[snail]

There was a 350 sat in Platform 3 of Manchester Oxford Rd tonight with the screens saying it was the 1719 to Glasgow. I had a look at realtime trains and the Airport service left at 1700 as scheduled so I presume that was a 4-car which would join to the other unit when it got to Oxford Rd. I wasn't there long enough to find out.

 

[harz99]

There was a 350 sat in Platform 3 of Manchester Oxford Rd tonight with the screens saying it was the 1719 to Glasgow. I had a look at realtime trains and the Airport service left at 1700 as scheduled so I presume that was a 4-car which would join to the other unit when it got to Oxford Rd. I wasn't there long enough to find out.

It shows as running via P3 at MCO in 1721 out 1729, so I reckon your correct there.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Prediction is for there to be 6 x 350s for 9 diagrams tomorrow, Saturday. A long list of short formations expected, with some cancellations between Preston - Manchester of 185 operated services also expected in order to maintain the service.

 

[northwichcat]

There was a 350 sat in Platform 3 of Manchester Oxford Rd tonight with the screens saying it was the 1719 to Glasgow. I had a look at realtime trains and the Airport service left at 1700 as scheduled so I presume that was a 4-car which would join to the other unit when it got to Oxford Rd. I wasn't there long enough to find out.

What time was that? According to RTT nothing arrived at platform 3 between the Manchester Picc-Llandudno service which departed at 16:54 (6 minutes late) and the Airport-Glasgow service which arrived at 17:21 (and then sat at Oxford Rd for 8 minutes.)

The only ECS move showing was from Slade Lane Junction-Oxford Rd platform 1 which was for the Oxford Rd-Windermere departure at 17:19.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It shows as running via P3 at MCO in 1721 out 1729, so I reckon your correct there.

All services were suffering delays at Oxford Road around that time so I'm not sure you can make that conclusion.

 

[MCR247]

Some last minute ECS moves don't show up in RTT IIRC

 

[cjmillsnun]

That is very interesting, as build quality on all of LM's 350/1s and 350/2s is second to none.

The ride is a bit dodgy, though, as you might expect from bogies designed for well-fettled German track!

Neil

Considering they're the same bogies that run on SWT land, I'm surprised by that, although I have to agree, the SWT Desiros are also well built.

 

[scotraildriver]

There's been figure pointing that units looked after in Scotland aren't getting the same level of attention as those at Ardwick. Plus the two damaged by an NR engineering train.

There are no units maintained in Scotland. They are the Ardwick ones which stable overnight at Corkerhill. Only tanking and cleaning no maintenance.

 

[317 forever]

I was disappointed to miss out on a 350/4 ride twice in the summer. In July a Manchester-Edinburgh train I had booked on was cancelled, at least at the Manchester end, due to a trespass in the Lancaster area. I thus had to use a 185/ Virgin 221 connection. Then on the August Bank Holiday I anticipated a 350/4 from Lancaster to Manchester but a 185 came instead.

Help is at hand, as last Saturday the 745 from MAN to EDB was a class 350/4. I therefore plan to catch this train to Preston in the next few months!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Considering they're the same bogies that run on SWT land, I'm surprised by that, although I have to agree, the SWT Desiros are also well built.

The ride in SWT land is rubbish as well, certainly compared to a Class 158 or Voyager (the real ride benchmarks in my view) but even compared to a 321.

Neil

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The ride in SWT land is rubbish as well

Neil

Was that on a 444, 450 or both?

btw do both 444s and 450s use the exact same design of bogies?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was that on a 444, 450 or both?

I've only used 444s in SWT land. It is a bit less noticeable than when sitting at the end on a 350 (on a 350 the ride in the middle section is noticeably better than the ends), but it's still noticeable.

btw do both 444s and 450s use the exact same design of bogies?

I think so, they are very similar units other than door/window positioning, 3m of coach length and a bit of width.

Neil

 

[harz99]

The ride is the thing I notice most with the 350/4. After a 185 they really do rock and roll, I guess it must be a combination of the 3 or so metres shorter body and wheelbase, and the difference in weight as they are not carrying a thumping great diesel engine and fuel around.

Also I probably notice the movement more as I am normally in an airline style priority seat in A/D on a 350/4, which are at the gangway end rather than centre of coach B as in a 185.

 

[dgl]

Didn't SWT's 444's have a variable stiffness hydraulic bush added to help improve the ride (and track wear)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Didn't SWT's 444's have a variable stiffness hydraulic bush added to help improve the ride (and track wear)

I think they did, I remember reading about it somewhere. The length of coaches must have an affect, especially when it comes to places with sharper bends, or traversing complex pointwork

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't SWT's 444's have a variable stiffness hydraulic bush added to help improve the ride (and track wear)

So did the 450s. But it has apparently been found not to give the expected track benefits. The SWT 450 fleet (at least) are supposed to be getting the same bogies as Desiro City eventually.

 

[snail]

What time was that? According to RTT nothing arrived at platform 3 between the Manchester Picc-Llandudno service which departed at 16:54 (6 minutes late) and the Airport-Glasgow service which arrived at 17:21 (and then sat at Oxford Rd for 8 minutes.)

That would be because there was a 350 sat in the platform! I was there about 1705.