Reliability of electrified lines

[Bald Rick]

Looks to me that the electrification infrastructure out to Glossop/Hadfield is still there unchanged. Different voltage now, of course.

and very different levels of use compared to the GEML!

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps over time virtually all headspans in the country, such as Paddington to Airport Junction, will be converted to portals. They are normally only used where the number of tracks is at least 3, so they are not much found on lines that aren't busy. It's already happening on the south end of the MML.

Given all the improvements to these lines for IETs and then Crossrail, what is the current extent of headspans on the GW?

 

[LBMPSB]

The first Overhead Electrification in England was installed on the London Brighton and South Coast Railway(LBSCR) on the South London Line (London Bridge - Victoria) in 1909. It was 6700vAC. On 17th June 1928 it was replaced by Third Rail and all OHL stock was converted to third rail. The OHL were on spans that bridged the running lines, three running lines in places. It probably was not developed further because of Herbert Walker of the London & South Western Railway (LSWR) who became head of the Southern Railway that took over LBSCR, being a fan of the third rail system that he had had installed on the LSWR.

 

[Bald Rick]

Given all the improvements to these lines for IETs and then Crossrail, what is the current extent of headspans on the GW?

Well there werent many OLE improvements east of Airport junction for the IETs. However, broadly speaking there arent many headspans east of Acton MainLine, and most of those that are left will be replaced by the HS2 works at OOC. West of Acton ML it’s mostly headspans on plain track, but portals and cantilevers around stations, Airport Junction etc.

Important to stress that its rarely headspans that are an issue in terms of component failure. The issue with them is that for certain types of failure it needs all lines blocked rather than just one or two.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

WCML is because it’s ageing and extremely intensively used.

Wasn't the WCML (at least the fast lines) rewired for 125mph with new power infrastructure in the 2000s, not to mention complete resignalling?
Probably some of the 1960s stuff is still there (slow lines including the Northampton loop?).

I'd have thought it was the ECML that was now "ageing".

 

[norbitonflyer]

The first Overhead Electrification in England was installed on the London Brighton and South Coast Railway(LBSCR) on the South London Line (London Bridge - Victoria) in 1909. It was 6700vAC.

That was the second. The first was the Midland Railway's - Heysham- Morecambe- Lancaster line the previous year, using the same system as the LBSCR. The line was converted to 50 Hz (both the LBSCR and original MR systems were 25Hz) in the early 50s as a test bed for the WCML electrification, and in particular to determine whether a feed from the National Grid (which operates at that frequency) was practical. (All earlier AC schemes had used dedicated power supplies, in the MR's case a power station at Heysham - obviously not the current nuclear one - the atom hadn't been split in 1908!)
The line closed in 1966 (the LNWR line to Morecambe, which was never electrified, remains open) and it would be another eight years before an electric train was again seen at Lancaster.

 

[QueensCurve]

Does anyone know what is going on with the OHLE at Mancester Piccadilly? https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/resources/hvxdr-qrjum-b7csb-etmcw-7uc84

 

[LAX54]

GEML, WAML and various suburban lines in the north west and Scotland beg to differ.

GEML I would have thought is one of the busiest, if not 'the' busiest line !

 

[Bald Rick]

GEML I would have thought is one of the busiest, if not 'the' busiest line !

In terms of pantograph passes, I believe the mains west of Shenfield are, yes.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

WCML is because it’s ageing and extremely intensively used.

The first few miles from Paddington were built on a shoestring in the 90s and are pretty shoddily thrown together. Plus they now see 20+ electric trains an hour in each direction instead of the 4ish they were designed for.

Its the same Mk3 OLE that London to Bedford used and that doesn't fall down despite it being far more intensively used now than what it was designed for.

 

[D7666]

That was the second. The first was the Midland Railway's - Heysham- Morecambe- Lancaster line the previous year,

From upthread, QUOTE The first Overhead Electrification in England UNQUOTE stated LBSCR South London 1909.

Then as quoted Midland Railway Lancaster Morecambe Heysham 1908

So I add Harton Electric Railway also went live 1908: ok ok not main line but industrial, in England.

But, if one wants to keep to "main line" this one pre-dates the LBSCR and MR routes :

1905 : NER Tyneside Quay operational 05/06/1905 ~630 V DC overhead, and Tyne was in England then, as now, last time I looked.

Earlier,

1902 : without going into what is a railway v. what is a tramway, opened 07/11/02 the Redruth & Camborne that was not just a passenger line but had electric locos for working freight, not just shunting, which could be counted as industrial railway.

I am sure there are more, and no doubt others will find them, or suggest things, not necessarily in England, which seems an arbitrary limit, such as Manx Electric Railway opened 1894, Snaefell Mountain Railway opened 1895, and so on.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

From upthread, QUOTE The first Overhead Electrification in England UNQUOTE stated LBSCR South London 1909.

Then as quoted Midland Railway Lancaster Morecambe Heysham 1908

So I add Harton Electric Railway also went live 1908: ok ok not main line but industrial, in England.

But, if one wants to keep to "main line" this one pre-dates the LBSCR and MR routes :

1905 : NER Tyneside Quay operational 05/06/1905 ~630 V DC overhead, and Tyne was in England then, as now, last time I looked.

Earlier,

1902 : without going into what is a railway v. what is a tramway, opened 07/11/02 the Redruth & Camborne that was not just a passenger line but had electric locos for working freight, not just shunting, which could be counted as industrial railway.

I am sure there are more, and no doubt others will find them, or suggest things, not necessarily in England, which seems an arbitrary limit, such as Manx Electric Railway opened 1894, Snaefell Mountain Railway opened 1895, and so on.

Bessbrook and Newry Tramway electrified in 1885

 

[D7666]

Bessbrook and Newry Tramway electrified in 1885

Thank you Nick. There had to be at least one more earlier than the ones I could think of.

 

[Dryce]

I suspect the answer is that an electric train is more reliable as there is less to go wrong, as much of the power generation equipment has been moved off the train. But the infrastructure is more vulnerable for precisely the same reason.

My recollection of a few decades of using suburban electrics around Glasgow is that the OHL hasn't been an issue apart from the odd power issue. Delays I have experienced have been down to reported faults with signalling or points, staff shortages, or the odd dispute. I can't recall ever being on an EMU that has broken down ... OTOH I've been on several DMUs that have failed in service.

OTOH I've experienced quite a few delays / cancellations on WCML and ECML over the years that have been down to OHL issues.

I've also experienced weather disruption with one ECML journey being terminated at Edinburgh during a bad storm - reportedly due to weather and OHL.

And when commuting through Glasgow it wasn't unusual to hear announcements about services to Ardrossan and Saltcoats being affected by weather - and my understanding is that this is down to weather and OHL.

 

[Trainbike46]

Its the same Mk3 OLE that London to Bedford used and that doesn't fall down despite it being far more intensively used now than what it was designed for.

Of course London to Bedford is currently undergoing upgrades to increase the maximum speed - I'd be surprised if this doesn't increase reliability (if only because people working on it means issues get spotted earlier!)

It's not just design that matters; the maintenance also impacts reliability, as does differences in local conditions, such as how exposed it is

 

[contrex]

The line was converted to 50 Hz (both the LBSCR and original MR systems were 25Hz) in the early 50s

25 Hz persisted for a long time. I've long been interested in the '50 cycle scheme' of the 1950s on the Southern Region inner London area, but haven't found much online history material.

 

[snowball]

Of course London to Bedford is currently undergoing upgrades to increase the maximum speed - I'd be surprised if this doesn't increase reliability (if only because people working on it means issues get spotted earlier!)

Not only to increase the maximum speed. See post #6315 in the MML thread here.

 

[Taunton]

Having known OHLE for a long time, I just don't recall delays due to the wires coming down in the 1960s-70s-80s. Is it an increasing issue, or just modern media reporting?

There were certainly works trains of old carriages with flat roofs and "Electrification" branding on the sides at key points like Crewe, but they never seemed to move.

I do remember them being out, in the immediate aftermath of one of the "hurricanes" around 1990 on the Tilbury/C2C, with a commandeered Class 37, fixing things while passengers were still standing outside waiting for replacement buses. All the bus queue, looking at the team up on top, were impressed.

 

[Bald Rick]

One of my former colleagues regularly used to regale (pun intended) of how many dewirements there were in Anglia on the night of the 1987 storm (hundreds) and again on the Burns night storm in 1991.

Whilst these were extreme events, they certainly weren’t the only times the wires came down back then.

 

[LBMPSB]

Having known OHLE for a long time, I just don't recall delays due to the wires coming down in the 1960s-70s-80s. Is it an increasing issue, or just modern media reporting?

Well in 1975 only 17% of the British Railways network was electrified. Network Rail state that only 38% of Britain's railway network was electrified in 2018. Since there has been substantially more new OHL than new Third Rail electrification, that would give an indication that there is a lot more OHL infrastructure around today. Thus the number of failures with OHL is likely to be at a higher level. Also a lot of the OHL is aging and likely to fail more.

 

[QueensCurve]

Having known OHLE for a long time, I just don't recall delays due to the wires coming down in the 1960s-70s-80s. Is it an increasing issue, or just modern media reporting?

I recall there were quite frequent problems on Shap bank in the first 10 years of electrification. The wires were subject to side winds and additional supports were put in to reinforce them in the mid 1980s.

There were certainly works trains of old carriages with flat roofs and "Electrification" branding on the sides at key points like Crewe, but they never seemed to move.

One was stabled North of Preston for many years.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

One was stabled North of Preston for many years.

Ladywell sidings - I have photographs of it.