Refunding Network Card if you now qualify for disabled railcard

[Class 317]

After abit of advice regarding railcards.

My sister recently purchased a network Railcard but has since qualified for a disabled Railcard.

Is she able to refund the network card or swop it for a disabled one?

If yes how would she go about it?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[miklcct]

No. A Railcard is not refundable once bought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, unfortunately Railcards can't be refunded for this sort of reason.

 

[Class 317]

Thanks for the information.

I thought this might be the case.

 

[Watershed]

Railcards can't be refunded, full stop. Well, clearly there might be certain circumstances where they might be (serious breach of contract by the TOCs, for instance - such as unilaterally withdrawing from accepting them).

But certainly there won't be any entitlement to a refund because of a change of personal circumstances.

 

[SJF.7]

If could be cheaper in the time remaining to buy a disabled railcard while having a network card if your sister has to make some trips before 10am on a weekday as the card can be used at anytime of the day unlike the network card. Another plus is that a companion can travel at the same price as the holder if they stay all the way on the journey.

Please correct me if the above is wrong.

 

[Capvermell]

If could be cheaper in the time remaining to buy a disabled railcard while having a network card if your sister has to make some trips before 10am on a weekday as the card can be used at anytime of the day unlike the network card. Another plus is that a companion can travel at the same price as the holder if they stay all the way on the journey.

Please correct me if the above is wrong.

I am facing the same issue with my Network Railcard that I renewed in digital form in July but that I will obviously replace with a Senior Railcard in February due to the nationwide validity and other improved terms and conditions.

I asked when I bought this digital network card one (I asked at a Southern ticket office although I then bough a digital version from TheTrainline because they were selling it for only £20 instead of £30 on a promotion although I think that was only a one time offer as a new customer) if I was able to obtain a pro rata refund on reaching 60 and buying the Senior Railcard but was told no Hard Cheese and no refunds allowed in any situation.

This would be especially unfair to anyone who is a regular rail traveller and/or who simply needed to make a long distance and expensive journey who had renewed their Network Railcard just a few days before they turned 60. And this might well happen since the value of the discounted tickets only needs to equal £30 to have to do so despite the fact that it is blatantly unfair that some people turning 60 might only get a day's validity out of their Network Railcard while others might get a full 365 days purely due to the randomness of when their Network Railcard renews in relation to their date of birth.........

 

[CyrusWuff]

Rail Delivery Group's reasoning for Railcards being non-refundable is that you can make the money back with just one trip.

For example: An undiscounted Off-Peak Return between London and Manchester is £98.10. A Railcard (other than a Network Railcard or Annual Gold Card, as it's out of area) would bring that down to £64.70, saving £33.40.

 

[Capvermell]

Rail Delivery Group's reasoning for Railcards being non-refundable is that you can make the money back with just one trip.

For example: An undiscounted Off-Peak Return between London and Manchester is £98.10. A Railcard (other than a Network Railcard or Annual Gold Card, as it's out of area) would bring that down to £64.70, saving £33.40.

Your above case is clearly not applicable to a Network Railcard holder who the Rail Delivery Group would try to do out of any discount at all on a through ticketed journey although it may still be possible to achieve a small saving by splitting tickets at the Network Railcard boundary station or at least the station closest to but inside the Network Railcard boundary that the train actually stops at (itself a surely absurd and unfair rule and it ought to be enough that the train you are on merely travels through the Network Card boundary station that you are ticketed to rather than having to actually call at it). However in general for long journeys like Manchester or beyond from London and the South East where the very cheapest Advance Single is available there is no saving at all by splitting tickets and using a Network card because an Advance Single on the whole journey is substantially cheaper that buying two Off Peak Returns (one discounted by the Network Card and one that is not for the portion of the journey beyond the Network Card boundary).

The bottom line is that it is clearly inequitable that when someone needs to change railcard type (due to now becoming disabled or 60 years old or due to now being a single person rather than part of a family household of people traveling together) that they don't receive a pro rata refund on the portion of the railcard they are trading in for the railcard that now better suits their needs. It is further inequitable that different individuals suffer different levels of disbenefit according to where their birthday falls in the year.

There was also a quite interesting discussion going on in this forum about the future of railcards and especially the Network Railcard that I know I read in this forum only two or three weeks ago, and was going to comment on, but bizarrely I am now completely unable to find it by doing a search in the forum for all threads with "railcard" in either the subject line of the thread and/or the whole body of the message. So does anyone know where that thread is or if it has been removed from the forum why that is the case?

 

[skyhigh]

This would be especially unfair to anyone who is a regular rail traveller and/or who simply needed to make a long distance and expensive journey who had renewed their Network Railcard just a few days before they turned 60

This hypothetical long-distance-but-only-in-the-Network-Railcard-area traveller is free to decide if it's worth renewing or waiting those few days for a Senior Railcard. If you make a saving of more than £30 in those few days, great. You've still saved money overall so I don't get the big problem here?

And this might well happen since the value of the discounted tickets only needs to equal £30 to have to do so despite the fact that it is blatantly unfair that some people turning 60 might only get a day's validity out of their Network Railcard while others might get a full 365 days purely due to the randomness of when their Network Railcard renews in relation to their date of birth.........

As someone who lives outside the Network Railcard area and is above 30 but less than 60 and often travels alone I have little sympathy really. You have two railcards to pick from and still complain! If you save £30.05 in a single day of a Railcard you're ahead. Anything more is a bonus in my book. If I was married and held a two-together but got divorced half way through the period of validity should I get a refund on that?

Nobody is forcing you to stop using the Network Railcard and buy a Senior Railcard when you turn 60. It's entirely up to you if it's worth having a gap or 2 overlapping railcards.

 

[Capvermell]

This hypothetical long-distance-but-only-in-the-Network-Railcard-area traveller is free to decide if it's worth renewing or waiting those few days for a Senior Railcard. If you make a saving of more than £30 in those few days, great. You've still saved money overall so I don't get the big problem here?

As someone who lives outside the Network Railcard area and is above 30 but less than 60 and often travels alone I have little sympathy really. You have two railcards to pick from and still complain! If you save £30.05 in a single day of a Railcard you're ahead. Anything more is a bonus in my book. If I was married and held a two-together but got divorced half way through the period of validity should I get a refund on that?

Nobody is forcing you to stop using the Network Railcard and buy a Senior Railcard when you turn 60. It's entirely up to you if it's worth having a gap or 2 overlapping railcards.

If I have a car insurance policy and change the make and model of the car I own an insurer will usually accommodate the new vehicle but charge a higher premium if it involves a higher risk.

A Network Railcard and a Senior Railcard do not appear to be complementary products (unlike say a Two Together Railcard and a Senior Railcard) so why should there not be an upgrade path when I become entitled to a Senior Railcard. The same point exactly seems to apply when younger people living in the South East have to trade in their younger persons railcard for a Network Railcard as the one based on their age is eventually no longer valid although I presume its valid for a year based on your age at date of issue.

All you seem to be saying is that RDG being inflexible in this situation is something they like because it lets them make more money out of selling more railcards even though the impact is capricious and variable from railcard holder to railcard holder according to their date of birth and date of renewal of their railcard. I was making a constructive point and all you have sought to do is try to squash the point I was making in favour of what works best for RDG's commercial interest financially.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If I have a car insurance policy and change the make and model of the car I own an insurer will usually accommodate the new vehicle but charge a higher premium if it involves a higher risk.

A Network Railcard and a Senior Railcard do not appear to be complementary products (unlike say a Two Together Railcard and a Senior Railcard) so why should there not be an upgrade path when I become entitled to a Senior Railcard. The same point exactly seems to apply when younger people living in the South East have to trade in their younger persons railcard for a Network Railcard as the one based on their age is eventually no longer valid although I presume its valid for a year based on your age at date of issue.

All you seem to be saying is that RDG being inflexible in this situation is something they like because it lets them make more money out of selling more railcards even though the impact is capricious and variable from railcard holder to railcard holder according to their date of birth and date of renewal of their railcard. I was making a constructive point and all you have sought to do is try to squash the point I was making in favour of what works best for RDG's commercial interest financially.

It’s perhaps worth keeping this in proportion. All the Railcards I can think of cost £30 per year: even with a refund and no admin charge that would be £2.50 back for each unused month. In the great scheme of things, this is not very much, and so may not be worth worrying about very much.

And while I can see that there might be a case for refunds when unpredictable events take place (no longer being able to travel as a couple for a two together card, perhaps the sudden onset of a disability qualifying one for a disabled person’s card), I really don’t think that this applies to a senior card: most people surely know when their sixtieth birthday will be, and so can make an informed decision during the previous year as to whether it is worth spending £30 on a railcard with inferior benefits (compared to the senior railcard) for the part year leading up to their birthday.

 

[DelayRepay]

This would be especially unfair to anyone who is a regular rail traveller and/or who simply needed to make a long distance and expensive journey who had renewed their Network Railcard just a few days before they turned 60. And this might well happen since the value of the discounted tickets only needs to equal £30 to have to do so despite the fact that it is blatantly unfair that some people turning 60 might only get a day's validity out of their Network Railcard while others might get a full 365 days purely due to the randomness of when their Network Railcard renews in relation to their date of birth.........

It is not really unfair because the same rules apply to everyone, and the rules are clearly available in advance of purchase. Nobody is forced to purchase a rail card.

If I have a car insurance policy and change the make and model of the car I own an insurer will usually accommodate the new vehicle but charge a higher premium if it involves a higher risk.

That's because that's how the insurance industry has decided to operate. If it was standard practice for insurance policies to be non-refundable, then as long as the terms and conditions were clear prior to purchase, that wouldn't be unfair either. But insurance and railcards are completely different anyway. And insurers typically charge an admin fee of £25 - £50 for changing or cancelling a policy.

 

[Capvermell]

It is not really unfair because the same rules apply to everyone, and the rules are clearly available in advance of purchase. Nobody is forced to purchase a rail card.

The rule is clearly just that we don't care that you have a previous railcard that you no longer require due to an age change simply because its easier for us as we make more money that way.

Also what happens with the 3 year version of the 16-25 Railcard (see https://www.railcard.co.uk/about-railcards/#sixteen_twentyfive_railcard_anchor) that costs £70 since if this same dumb and unfair model applies in reverse then someone aged 25 years and 364 days can buy the 3 year version (as they presumably only have to show proof of age on that day of purchase) and continue to have a valid 16-25 year railcard until they are one day short of 29. Yet someone aged 26 years and no days who's circumstances mean they suddenly start travelling by rail a lot cannot have one at all during essentially the same next 3 years minus 1 day that the person buying one at 25 years and 364 days could have one for. So for that very reason I can't imagine why there is a 3 year version of the 16-25 Railcard at all since its validity is heavily age circumscribed. Or are we saying someone can only buy the 3 years version of the 16-25 Railcard up to the day that they are 23 Years and 364 days old so they can't have one for any longer age wise than someone buying the 1 year version at 25 years and 364 days old?

And why exactly is there a 3 year version of the Family and Friends Railcard and not of the Two Together Railcard (as relationships with families and especially friends can break down just as easily as with couples in my experience)? And if the 1 year Disabled Railcard costs £20 (I get that its cheaper because disabled people often have much less income) then why does the 3 year version cost two and a half times more at £50 rather than getting the same 3 year discount as the other 3 year railcards percentage wise, in which case it should only cost £46.66 and not £54.

 

[Capvermell]

It’s perhaps worth keeping this in proportion. All the Railcards I can think of cost £30 per year: even with a refund and no admin charge that would be £2.50 back for each unused month. In the great scheme of things, this is not very much, and so may not be worth worrying about very much.

You seem to be ignoring the 3 year versions of the 16-25 Railcard, Family and Friends Railcard, Senior Railcard and Veterans Railcard that cost £70 and the 3 year version of the Disable Railcard that for some perverse reason attracts a lower discount on the three year cost than the above three and so costs £54 rather than the £46.66 it ought to be charged at to attract the same level of 3 year discount. Now a Senior or Veteran is of course unable to stop becoming one of those things but they may still get too old or unwell to travel by rail at all.

Also having considered the railcards available I don't understand why there is a Two Together Railcard as the Family and Friends Railcard surely covers two adults travelling together but is more flexible by also covering four adults and up to four children. And there is also no discounted 3 year version of the Two Together either. So in short why does anyone buy a Two Together Railcard instead of a Family and Friends Railcard? Or am I missing something obvious.

And while I can see that there might be a case for refunds when unpredictable events take place (no longer being able to travel as a couple for a two together card, perhaps the sudden onset of a disability qualifying one for a disabled person’s card), I really don’t think that this applies to a senior card: most people surely know when their sixtieth birthday will be, and so can make an informed decision during the previous year as to whether it is worth spending £30 on a railcard with inferior benefits (compared to the senior railcard) for the part year leading up to their birthday.

I think the situation especially applies to the Senior Railcard as single people under 60 in the main have an existing Network Railcard that they first bought on a random date that they needed to make a relevant trip and then they renew it each year when the old one expires (if they travel by rail quite often) and then one day their 60th birthday appears and the value they get of the Network Railcard they buy when age 59 is inconsistent purely due to when in their 59th year they bought their final Network Card (since there is no possible reason to have an inferior terms and conditions wise Network Card once you qualify for a Senior Railcard).

This is leaving aside the really big issue that all Railcards are apparently not being logged in to some big central database held by RDG so that when someone who buys a railcard discounted ticket encounters a situation where they can't currently produce their railcard (in the main I suspect due to no battery left on their smartphone with a digital railcard or because they left it at home with a physical one but didn't realise that when they were buying their ticket) its validity can be easily checked by staff checking ticket validity. Of course I appreciate that in the past this was in no way practical and also it was largely unnecessary with there being no digital railcards reliant on network signal and enough remaining battery. But now with so many railcards being digital it seems to be a really huge issue with people with valid railcards who have bought tickets being subjected to enforcement action when they should not be.

 

[swt_passenger]

Also having considered the railcards available I don't understand why there is a Two Together Railcard as the Family and Friends Railcard surely covers two adults travelling together but is more flexible by also covering four adults and up to four children. And there is also no discounted 3 year version of the Two Together either. So in short why does anyone buy a Two Together Railcard instead of a Family and Friends Railcard? Or am I missing something obvious.

With the Friends and Family railcard you need to have at least one child travelling with you, they’re not optional. That’s the main gap the Two Together was aimed at.

 

[greatkingrat]

Also what happens with the 3 year version of the 16-25 Railcard (see https://www.railcard.co.uk/about-railcards/#sixteen_twentyfive_railcard_anchor) that costs £70 since if this same dumb and unfair model applies in reverse then someone aged 25 years and 364 days can buy the 3 year version (as they presumably only have to show proof of age on that day of purchase) and continue to have a valid 16-25 year railcard until they are one day short of 29. Yet someone aged 26 years and no days who's circumstances mean they suddenly start travelling by rail a lot cannot have one at all during essentially the same next 3 years minus 1 day that the person buying one at 25 years and 364 days could have one for. So for that very reason I can't imagine why there is a 3 year version of the 16-25 Railcard at all since its validity is heavily age circumscribed. Or are we saying someone can only buy the 3 years version of the 16-25 Railcard up to the day that they are 23 Years and 364 days old so they can't have one for any longer age wise than someone buying the 1 year version at 25 years and 364 days old?

No, you do not get any extra validity by buying a 3 year card. You can only buy a 3 year card if you are under 24, so either way the last date it can possibly be valid is the day before your 27th birthday.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It’s perhaps worth keeping this in proportion. All the Railcards I can think of cost £30 per year: even with a refund and no admin charge that would be £2.50 back for each unused month. In the great scheme of things, this is not very much, and so may not be worth worrying about very much.

You seem to be ignoring the 3 year versions of the 16-25 Railcard, Family and Friends Railcard, Senior Railcard and Veterans Railcard that cost £70 and the 3 year version of the Disable Railcard that for some perverse reason attracts a lower discount on the three year cost than the above three and so costs £54 rather than the £46.66 it ought to be charged at to attract the same level of 3 year discount

I am indeed ignoring them - both for simplicity, and because it doesn't help your argument. Assuming again a pro rata refund and no admin fee, £70 for 36 months is rather less than £2 per month. So the potential refund is even more negligible than for an annual card.

 

[Capvermell]

I am indeed ignoring them - both for simplicity, and because it doesn't help your argument. Assuming again a pro rata refund and no admin fee, £70 for 36 months is rather less than £2 per month. So the potential refund is even more negligible than for an annual card.

Yes the refund is less on an an averaged per month basis but significantly more in total monetary terms if someone say dies in month 1 on a 3 year Senior Railcard (the most likely reason to seek an early refund) and so their Executors (frequently the surviving husband or wife) would like to claim back the remaining unused portion of the validity of the Railcard.

Also if railcards are becoming mainly digital (discounted pricing and fee free protection against permanent physical loss are pushing things that way) then the administration costs in allowing them to be traded in online from one railcard version for another should surely be very much less compared to taking up valuable and scarce manned ticket window time at rail stations (especially as I am sure the long term objective is to close down such manned ticket windows at most or all stations in the same way as TfL have done, although that may take god knows how long a rail strike given the quite extraordinary militancy of the communist rail unions and the government's unwillingness to take them on head on in Ronnie Reagan and the air traffic controllers type fashion)

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me what is the point of a Two Together Railcard vs a Family and Friends Railcard or is its point that the second person travelling with you doesn't have to be named or remain consistent on a Two Together but does on a Family and Friends Railcard? I'm also still waiting for someone to explain to me why its not possible to buy a cheaper 3 year version of all off the Railcards marketed by the Rail Delivery Group rather than only some of them?

I would also like to know what has happened to the thread on this forum I discovered a few weeks back that was discussing the long term future of and/or possible reforms to the Railcard Scheme but that no seems to have disappeared completely (I have hunted high and low for it but cannot find it anywhere on the forum today)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me what is the point of a Two Together Railcard vs a Family and Friends Railcard

See post #16 above.

 

[roversfan2001]

...since if this same dumb and unfair model applies in reverse...

It isn't and it doesn't.

then someone aged 25 years and 364 days can buy the 3 year version

They can't.

Or are we saying someone can only buy the 3 years version of the 16-25 Railcard up to the day that they are 23 Years and 364 days old so they can't have one for any longer age wise than someone buying the 1 year version at 25 years and 364 days old?

Yes, that is the rule.

 

[Doubleplus]

I think the situation especially applies to the Senior Railcard as single people under 60 in the main have an existing Network Railcard that they first bought on a random date that they needed to make a relevant trip and then they renew it each year when the old one expires (if they travel by rail quite often) and then one day their 60th birthday appears and the value they get of the Network Railcard they buy when age 59 is inconsistent purely due to when in their 59th year they bought their final Network Card (since there is no possible reason to have an inferior terms and conditions wise Network Card once you qualify for a Senior Railcard).

But it is surely completely down to the discretion of the traveller whether, when approaching their 60th birthday, they choose to renew a Network Railcard for a further year. Presumably they would only do so if they still intended to make sufficient journeys in the non-overlapping period that they would save more than they had spent. And if they have already saved money in that period, it seems disproportionate to quibble over a few months of overlapping validity which, yes, have been “paid for”, but for which equal or greater monetary value has already been obtained within the year.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2022 ==

Yes the refund is less on an an averaged per month basis but significantly more in total monetary terms if someone say dies in month 1 on a 3 year Senior Railcard (the most likely reason to seek an early refund) and so their Executors (frequently the surviving husband or wife) would like to claim back the remaining unused portion of the validity of the Railcard.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe that is normally possible? (Unless you write to a newspaper, I guess: Telegraph)

 

[AM9]

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me what is the point of a Two Together Railcard vs a Family and Friends Railcard or is its point that the second person travelling with you doesn't have to be named or remain consistent on a Two Together but does on a Family and Friends Railcard? I'm also still waiting for someone to explain to me why its not possible to buy a cheaper 3 year version of all off the Railcards marketed by the Rail Delivery Group rather than only some of them?

I would also like to know what has happened to the thread on this forum I discovered a few weeks back that was discussing the long term future of and/or possible reforms to the Railcard Scheme but that no seems to have disappeared completely (I have hunted high and low for it but cannot find it anywhere on the forum today)

On a Two Together Railcard, both persons are named and require the separate photo ID card which has a serial number that is also printed on the renewable annual or 3-year 'ticket' so there is no difference between the two cards in that respect.
The limitation on the duration of the card has been adequately explained to you above.
All these railcards are a marketing tool to encourage travel by offering a (roughly) 1/3 off defined products. Nobody has to buy one to travel, but if they do, the conditions of use clearly explain that there are no refunds. So at the point that you bought your Network Railcard, you did it in the full knowledge that irrespective of any personal reason you may have for wanting to choose another railcard withing the Network Card's period of validity, there was no refund of any perceived non-use. A typical holder of a Network Railcard has a £15-30 undiscounted fare to London, so fir each journey into London, they are likely to benefit from a £5-10 discount. You should have factored that into your original purchase, presumably estimating at least the number of return journeys to recover the purchase cost of the Card. If, say, by you 60th birthday you have only recovered half of the cost and it has sufficient validity in time to cover other journeys up to the railcard cost, then you will have lost nothing and (at least) recovered the cost of your purchase. There's no upper age limit for a Network Railcard.

 

[Capvermell]

But it is surely completely down to the discretion of the traveller whether, when approaching their 60th birthday, they choose to renew a Network Railcard for a further year. Presumably they would only do so if they still intended to make sufficient journeys in the non-overlapping period that they would save more than they had spent. And if they have already saved money in that period, it seems disproportionate to quibble over a few months of overlapping validity which, yes, have been “paid for”, but for which equal or greater monetary value has already been obtained within the year.

I think its actually pretty reason to quibble the lack of transferability to a Senior Railcard if, as is quite probable with someone buying a Network Railcard at age 59 years 11 months and 2 weeks old, ite then has to be replaced with a Senior Railcard only 2 weeks later.

You can come up with your oh well they have still covered the £30 cost of buying it analysis but the fact of the matter is that someone in this situation will still be paying far more per day of network card validity (up to the point at which it becomes pointless due to the Senior Railcard's improved terms and conditions especially re nationwide validity) than in any previous year and that does not seem in any manner equitable or reasonable.

Surely Rail Delivery Group wishes to create loyal and committed users to its Railcard series of products and the capricious lack of any scheme to trade in one valid railcard for another now more relevant one to an end user does not promote such loyalty. While in the past they could have argued about the high admin costs of doing so and longer queues and amount of time taken up at ticket windows if all railcard sales are now largely made via online platforms then most of that argument falls away if there is an online only process for transferring one digital paper and post free railcard for another one on a fee free pro rata basis.

 

[Capvermell]

There's no upper age limit for a Network Railcard.

Contractually there isn't but in practical terms there is as anyone travelling at all regularly by rail (even only monthly) will want to replace their Network Card with a Senior Railcard as soon as they reach age 60 when they are entitled to do so.

But anyway this seems to be a completely circular argument where you seek to argue that we are so lucky that Rail Delivery Groups runs the Railcard scheme at all that any conditions they choose to impose on the traveling public must be accepted without question despite their capricious and unfair action on those who for whatever reasons find themselves in a position where a different railcard now makes more sense for them than the one they currently hold part way through a railcard year (which may only be a few days in to the year).

If the platform for selling Railcards shortly becomes entirely digital then the administrative and staff costs of allowing such Railcard type conversion through an online portal become absolutely negligible whereas this is of course a significant real world time and labour cost involved in their taking place at ticket windows only manned by one member of staff at most smaller (yet still ticket window manned at some times of day) stations.

 

[Doubleplus]

I think its actually pretty reason to quibble the lack of transferability to a Senior Railcard if, as is quite probable with someone buying a Network Railcard at age 59 years 11 months and 2 weeks old, ite then has to be replaced with a Senior Railcard only 2 weeks later.

You can come up with your oh well they have still covered the £30 cost of buying it analysis but the fact of the matter is that someone in this situation will still be paying far more per day of network card validity (up to the point at which it becomes pointless due to the Senior Railcard's improved terms and conditions especially re nationwide validity) than in any previous year and that does not seem in any manner equitable or reasonable.

In your scenario above, you would still be entitled to a further 50 weeks of Network Railcard validity. If you had really renewed a railcard for just a two week period of non-overlapping use, you would surely have considered that matter very carefully before purchase, and decided that it was still to your benefit, in the full knowledge that you would have been eligible for a Senior Railcard just a few weeks later?

I do understand your point, but it’s not like a TV licence where you’re paying a year in advance for something that is actually metered and available monthly. A railcard is a one-off purchase with a year’s validity, and no obligation on you to travel each month of that year, for example. As has been observed, these cards can sometimes pay for themselves with just one journey. You can choose to work it out on a cost-per-day basis, but that isn’t how the card is sold, and nor (I expect) is that how most people think of it.

I do see that it would, theoretically, be nice for partial refunds to be available in these circumstances, but I suspect that for most people, given the very few opportunities in their life to transition between railcard eligibilities, the small cost of the railcard overall and the even smaller likely amount of that which would be refunded, you’d be running into one of those scenarios just like ticket refunds, where the admin cost of the refund could be more than you were entitled to in the first place.

My advice is genuinely to enjoy the fact that you can now take advantage of the senior card. The card you had before has presumably served you well and you have not lost out at all. The card you have now is even better, which is great! Look at it that way and there is no downside. Choose to be happy.

 

[AM9]

Contractually there isn't but in practical terms there is as anyone travelling at all regularly by rail (even only monthly) will want to replace their Network Card with a Senior Railcard as soon as they reach age 60 when they are entitled to do so.

But anyway this seems to be a completely circular argument where you seek to argue that we are so lucky that Rail Delivery Groups runs the Railcard scheme at all that any conditions they choose to impose on the traveling public must be accepted without question despite their capricious and unfair action on those who for whatever reasons find themselves in a position where a different railcard now makes more sense for them than the one they currently hold part way through a railcard year (which may only be a few days in to the year).

If the platform for selling Railcards shortly becomes entirely digital then the administrative and staff costs of allowing such Railcard type conversion through an online portal become absolutely negligible whereas this is of course a significant real world time and labour cost involved in their taking place at ticket windows only manned by one member of staff at most smaller (yet still ticket window manned at some times of day) stations.

No you are still wrong. Forget the concept of "replacing" your Network Railcard, - you are supplementing it, - there nothing in the rules preventing somebody having two different railcards at the same time. I had a Network Card when I was 59, and on passing 60 I applied for a Senior Railcard. It was over 10 years ago so I can't remember how long the overlap was but as their benefits aren't exactly the same there's even a case for holding the two together. The Senior Railcard only benefits its holder, whereas a Network card allows the holder and up to three more adults as well as up to four children to get discounted tickets, and unlike Two Together and Family Railcards, there's no ID requirement for anybody except the holder.
At the moment, I have a Senior Railcard, my wife has a Network Railcard which expires after she is 60 next year and we share a Two Together Railcard for long distance travel (usually when travelling on holiday) and that expires in September next year. All three railcards have paid for themselves already so even if we don't travel again before her 60th, we're still quids in. It's quite simple, read the conditions before you buy, - if you think the deal doesn't suit you then walk away.

 

[Capvermell]

The Senior Railcard only benefits its holder, whereas a Network card allows the holder and up to three more adults as well as up to four children to get discounted tickets, and unlike Two Together and Family Railcards, there's no ID requirement for anybody except the holder.

Well I wasn't aware of those benefits since I always travel by rail on my own and am an entirely single person household. I also don't think there's any real need to use language such as that I am wrong as that rather makes it sound like you are trying to score a point to try to win an argument with me when surely we should be all trying to help one another as rail users in this forum.

So in my case there are still no continuing benefits of holding a Network Rail after I turn 60 and I would therefore prefer to have a refund on the remaining portion of the Network Card for the days I have no use for.

I am not of course opposed to those who have a use for both a Network Card and a Senior Railcard at the same time holding both these Railcards at once although I do think one coherent nationwide Railcard scheme without the need to hold multiple different railcards in some cases would be much easier to understand and to market to end users.

There was a recent ongoing discussion thread here about possible reform of the Railcard system only a few weeks ago but for some odd reason I can no longer seem to locate it.

 

[AM9]

Well I wasn't aware of those benefits since I always travel by rail on my own and am an entirely single person household. I also don't think there's any real need to use language such as that I am wrong as that rather makes it sound like you are trying to score a point to try to win an argument with me when surely we should be all trying to help one another as rail users in this forum.

So in my case there are still no continuing benefits of holding a Network Rail after I turn 60 and I would therefore prefer to have a refund on the remaining portion of the Network Card for the days I have no use for.

I am not of course opposed to those who have a use for both a Network Card and a Senior Railcard at the same time holding both these Railcards at once although I do think one coherent nationwide Railcard scheme without the need to hold multiple different railcards in some cases would be much easier to understand and to market to end users.

There was a recent ongoing discussion thread here about possible reform of the Railcard system only a few weeks ago but for some odd reason I can no longer seem to locate it.

I've never seen anybody here complain about being told their assumptions are wrong. As you say, your knowledge of Railcard benefits was limited so my mentioning of the multi-passenger use of Network Railcards informed you for the future.
As far as a refund is concerned, as I and others have explained, the fee is for a card that can be used for a set period. The fee is quite small considering the ease of saving costs well in excess of the ticket. For a couple of years I didn't make much use of my Senior Card and probably failed to recover its cost for those years, but the possesion of the card gave me the opportunity, and I don't blame anybody else for not recovering its cost.
As far as cards that cover specific short periods or for combinations of passenger ages, that would entail so much complication that even if the railway chose to sink the additional cost of such a system (which would ultimately end up in increased fares for all), there would be howls of complaint form potential cusomers because they didn't understand it. Raincards represent a useful method of reducing fares for regular (read 'loyal' in marketing lingo) travellers such that they can generate more use of the railways. Tamper with the system and either costs will rise, or they will be discontinued.

 

[Hadders]

Contractually there isn't but in practical terms there is as anyone travelling at all regularly by rail (even only monthly) will want to replace their Network Card with a Senior Railcard as soon as they reach age 60 when they are entitled to do so.

Not necessarily. A 60-year old making leisure journeys with up to 3 friends in the Network Railcard area would be better off sticking with the Network Railcard rather than using a Senior Railcard.

As it happens I possess two different railcards, it’s horses for courses with them.