Refunding Network Card if you now qualify for disabled railcard

[DaveB10780]

This thread is pretty depressing. So much hot hair and whining over a few pounds where as loads of people have to pay full fare especially if they do not live in the "Network card" area.

 

[DelayRepay]

So in my case there are still no continuing benefits of holding a Network Rail after I turn 60 and I would therefore prefer to have a refund on the remaining portion of the Network Card for the days I have no use for.

There was only no benefit to you because you chose to buy another railcard. The benefits offered by the railcard did not change on your 60th birthday.

If the Network Railcard was working for you, why didn't you just carry on using it til it expired?

 

[sor]

With the exception of the disabled railcard, being eligible for multiple railcards is rather a nice problem to have while a large chunk of the population is ineligible for any of the solo traveller cards. I can't say I'd be bothered about the cost of getting overlapping cards given how much I'd likely save anyway. Agree that there's a degree of personal responsibility required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not necessarily. A 60-year old making leisure journeys with up to 3 friends in the Network Railcard area would be better off sticking with the Network Railcard rather than using a Senior Railcard.

As it happens I possess two different railcards, it’s horses for courses with them.

One friend. Above that GroupSave kicks in and offers the same discount without the minimum fare. Unless you want to use Avanti or XC which don't accept it.

 

[Capvermell]

There was only no benefit to you because you chose to buy another railcard. The benefits offered by the railcard did not change on your 60th birthday.

I haven't bought another railcard yet as this Network Railcard digital one from TheTrainLine started in mid July and I won' turn 60 till 18th February.

My point solely entirely and completely is that RDG runs a plethora of Railcards some of which (eg Two Together and Family and Friends) overlap in terms of functionality but people's circumstances regularly change so why can't people swap from one kind of Railcard to another mid year under the same £30 fee as long as they wish to give up the benefits associated with the Railcard they previously had and to instead enjoy the benefits of the new Railcard.

I accept that formerly there may have been some staff time and admin requirements associated with frequent changes that RDG did not wish to incur but now in a digital environment this change in network card type selection can be made electronically at negligible or zero administrative cost to RDG.

Of course I understand the number of changes in Railcard Type you hold might be limited to only one or two a year and might incur a minor admin fee such as £5 each time to stop people gaming the system by constantly changing railcard type if they actually need to hold two different railcards to cover their needs.

I am only suggesting an improvement to make Railcards more flexible in a digital world but all I get back from many (but not all) other forum members is that's what the terms and conditions are say you can't expect RDG to ever improve the system.

I note there was a recent thread in this forum talking about how the Railcard system could be radically overhauled and improved by RDG and/or DfT and the Train Operating Companies but mysteriously that thread has now seemingly disappeared completely and I can't find it anywhere at all on the forum.

 

[AM9]

One friend. Above that GroupSave kicks in and offers the same discount without the minimum fare. Unless you want to use Avanti or XC which don't accept it.

and up to 4 children.

 

[Haywain]

Unless you want to use Avanti or XC which don't accept it.

Or LNER or EMR. Or on a day when GWR have barred Groupsave.

 

[Capvermell]

With the exception of the disabled railcard, being eligible for multiple railcards is rather a nice problem to have while a large chunk of the population is ineligible for any of the solo traveller cards. I can't say I'd be bothered about the cost of getting overlapping cards given how much I'd likely save anyway. Agree that there's a degree of personal responsibility required.

In the past when I was mainly driving but if I had a short term problem with a car or taking a car on that trip didn't make sense (due to being in the centre of a town in a hotel) I bought a Network Card that I didn't cover the face value of on that trip but hoped I would later in the year. But I used to travel by rail so little that I sometimes didn't recover the £30.

I think there are rather a lot of people like the me of the past using their Railcards only pretty infrequently and this is how the Railcard fees manage to remain at only £30. If everyone who had a Railcard travelled frequently then the fee for the Railcard would either have to be higher or the level of the discount reduced to say only 20%

But for those who use their Railcards only infrequently and who are not sure they will even recover face value (unless you commute by rail you can't be sure of your future train use) then I am sure not being able to easily change to other Railcard types covering other use cases is an even bigger issue.

 

[AM9]

In the past when I was mainly driving but if I had a short term problem with a car or taking a car on that trip didn't make sense (due to being in the centre of a town in a hotel) I bought a Network Card that I didn't cover the face value of on that trip but hoped I would later in the year. But I used to travel by rail so little that I sometimes didn't recover the £30.

The you either buy a railcard because you think that it will give an overall saving during its period of validity, or else if the risk of under using it is too great then save yourself the £30 for that year.

I think there are rather a lot of people like the me of the past using their Railcards only pretty infrequently and this is how the Railcard fees manage to remain at only £30. If everyone who had a Railcard travelled frequently then the fee for the Railcard would either have to be higher or the level of the discount reduced to say only 20%

I think you are still misunderstanding the reason for railcards and Network Railcards in particular. The Network Railcard was introduced in 1986 when the railway in general had been sectorised. The London and South East sector was marketed as Network South East, and the card was used to encourage travellers to use the railway outside the peak hours when there was spare capacity. As such it was really better suited to leisure travel, so those who could see that their likely travel patterns would benefit from a 1/3 discount on tickets went ahead and bought them. The idea was that this would attract customers away from car and coach journeys onto rail, thereby increasing the return on the rolling stock and infrastructure that was in many cases there because peak travel required it. The Network Card (and most of the Railcards except possibly the Disabled Railcard) have always been marketing tools and are certainly not a 'welfare or social concession' for the various groups that are included. If the offer doesn't fit the potential user's travel patterns then they shouldn't get them.

But for those who use their Railcards only infrequently and who are not sure they will even recover face value (unless you commute by rail you can't be sure of your future train use) then I am sure not being able to easily change to other Railcard types covering other use cases is an even bigger issue.

No, that isn't the way it is, - for those whose potential travel is unlikely to bring in enough savings to pay for the annual card, (e.g. at least £90 worth of full priced fares), they should take the trouble to do the sums before buying.

 

[DelayRepay]

I am only suggesting an improvement to make Railcards more flexible in a digital world but all I get back from many (but not all) other forum members is that's what the terms and conditions are say you can't expect RDG to ever improve the system.

I note there was a recent thread in this forum talking about how the Railcard system could be radically overhauled and improved by RDG and/or DfT and the Train Operating Companies but mysteriously that thread has now seemingly disappeared completely and I can't find it anywhere at all on the forum.

I think I was responding to your use of the word 'unfair'. The current system is not 'unfair' because the terms and conditions are clear, and people can choose whether to buy a railcard or not. Nobody is being tricked or deceived or discriminated against.

On the other hand, if you are suggesting that there is scope to improve the current range of railcards, I agree. Personally I think it would make sense to try to align the validity rules across the different types of card. I expect that any changes won't generate a significant increase in revenue though, so won't be a priority for the RDG.

 

[philthetube]

When you buy a railcard you know the rules applying to it, if you don't like them don't buy, very few things allow partial refunds for part used products, season tickets are very much the exception in this.

 

[Hadders]

One friend. Above that GroupSave kicks in and offers the same discount without the minimum fare. Unless you want to use Avanti or XC which don't accept it.

Or EMR

 

[Haywain]

Or EMR

See post #37!

 

[XAM2175]

The Network Card (and most of the Railcards except possibly the Disabled Railcard) have always been marketing tools and are certainly not a 'welfare or social concession' for the various groups that are included.

In fairness on this particular point, there is perhaps an argument that the "restricted eligibility" Railcards have come to be viewed as a de-facto social concession scheme - the Disabled Person's most obviously, but also the Senior's, HM Forces, Forces Veterans, and even the youth ones, because they're targeted to some extent or another at people who could be said to deserve some sort of discount.

I would be tempted to suggest that a more equitable system would probably issue concession entitlement to many of those groups of people automatically, and make available a purely-commercially-driven Railcard for everybody else.