Refund from Uber on an Advance

[sprunt]

If I was reviewing a refund request for a ticket bought through the forum's site or TrainSplit, I would certainly agree and provide a full refund under this condition.

Good on you, another good reason to use the forums site to book tickets. Out of interest, having taken the decision to refund are third party retailers guaranteed to get the money back from whoever it is in the railway they do business with, or could that lead to a dispute between the site and the railway?

 

[MrJeeves]

Out of interest, having taken the decision to refund are third party retailers guaranteed to get the money back from whoever it is in the railway they do business with, or could that lead to a dispute between the site and the railway?

While it's not my area of the business, this is my understanding:

Retailers will not pay the TOC the value of the ticket if they cancel and refund it, meaning noone is out of pocket (except the payment processing fees). Ordinarily, the retailer holds onto the funds for the ticket value for a certain amount of time after purchase, before it gets paid to the industry (minus the level of comission due) along with any other tickets purchased during that period.

To prevent retailers cancelling tickets and pocketing the money from the industry, they are subject to refund audits by Rail Delivery Group where they need to produce the evidence behind a random sample of refunded tickets, and get a resulting "grade" from that audit. If the audit turns up any suspicious behaviour, the retailer can have limitations imposed on them.

 

[Cantab26]

Would you consider that a partial refund of a First Class ticket down to the Standard fare as per NRCoT 31.1 (quoted in post 8 above) would likely be seen by a Court (were it to be pursued that way having been refused by the TOC) as requiring the passenger to have travelled, or would having an Advance booked on the affected train be sufficient?

Thanks

My preliminary view is that:

• if the passenger travels, a price reduction is due to the passenger from the TOC - even if the first class fare paid is less than the cheapest walk-up standard class fare
• if the passenger elected not to travel, a full fee-free refund is due to the passenger from the TOC or the retailer - even if the terms of the fare would not normally permit of a refund or would entail payment of an administration fee

 

[OscarH]

Retailers will not pay the TOC the value of the ticket if they cancel and refund it, meaning noone is out of pocket (except the payment processing fees). Ordinarily, the retailer holds onto the funds for the ticket value for a certain amount of time after purchase, before it gets paid to the industry (minus the level of comission due) along with any other tickets purchased during that period.

The certain period of time after purchase isn't as long as you think. However that's not too relevant - if paid the money will just be returned (or in reality the amount will be deducted from the next payment run).

As you say, the key is the refund rules are enforced by periodic random audits which are a separate process. In general if a retailer decides to refund that's it, the money will come back, they won't be out of pocket.

 

[Haywain]

they won't be out of pocket.

Other than payment processing fees, commission (loss of), costs of staffing to deal with refunds and, potentially, ToD fees.

 

[sprunt]

While it's not my area of the business, this is my understanding:

Retailers will not pay the TOC the value of the ticket if they cancel and refund it, meaning noone is out of pocket (except the payment processing fees). Ordinarily, the retailer holds onto the funds for the ticket value for a certain amount of time after purchase, before it gets paid to the industry (minus the level of comission due) along with any other tickets purchased during that period.

To prevent retailers cancelling tickets and pocketing the money from the industry, they are subject to refund audits by Rail Delivery Group where they need to produce the evidence behind a random sample of refunded tickets, and get a resulting "grade" from that audit. If the audit turns up any suspicious behaviour, the retailer can have limitations imposed on them.

Interesting, thanks. Presumably the retailers pay some kind of central clearing body rather than TOCs directly? I'm thinking this because they could be selling tickets for a journey where the passenger will have a choice of TOCs, or will need to use more than one TOC.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Presumably the retailers pay some kind of central clearing body rather than TOCs directly?

Yes, all sales go into a central system, LENNON (Latest Earnings Networked Nationally OverNight it is said) and so also all refunds are processed that way as well. As @Haywain says, submitting £x and then -£x doesn't mean you haven't spent anything

 

[Watershed]

Interesting, thanks. Presumably the retailers pay some kind of central clearing body rather than TOCs directly? I'm thinking this because they could be selling tickets for a journey where the passenger will have a choice of TOCs, or will need to use more than one TOC.

Yes, Rail Settlement Plan Ltd. - more info here. Amongst other things, this division of the Rail Delivery Group administers the distribution of industry ticket revenue (still using the BR-era LENNON and ORCATS systems!), sets retailing and technical standards, and accredits retailers. Each TOC has a share in RSP.