Reform UK discussion

[35B]

The counterpoint would be what we've seen in the USA, many honourable conventions have just been straight-up ignored, as they have no teeth. I don't know the answer, I'm afraid.

The US situation is worse, in that the enforcement has also been gutted. I suspect that a Reform led Britain would have a similar approach to enforcement.

 

[jon0844]

The US situation is worse, in that the enforcement has also been gutted. I suspect that a Reform led Britain would have a similar approach to enforcement.

That's the idea. Cut taxes, services/benefits and ditch regulations. Regulations hurt businesses!

 

[The exile]

Slight correction on that - not all of them voted to get rid of Reform...

Fairly par for the course for the left. View other left wing groupings as the main “enemy” and ignore the threat on the right. The ghosts of Weimar Germany’s SPD and KPD (social dff er migrate and communists) would feel at home - almost more distrustful of each other than of the brownshirts.

 

[35B]

Fairly par for the course for the left. View other left wing groupings as the main “enemy” and ignore the threat on the right. The ghosts of Weimar Germany’s SPD and KPD (social dff er migrate and communists) would feel at home - almost more distrustful of each other than of the brownshirts.

And in that example, the SPD were right to be suspicious of the KPD - as demonstrated by the aftermath of WWII.

 

[The exile]

And in that example, the SPD were right to be suspicious of the KPD - as demonstrated by the aftermath of WWII.

Right to be suspicious - yes. To see them as a greater threat than the right - no. (I know it’s easy in retrospect) Not in the context of the late 1920s and 1930s they weren’t - any more than we were by allying ourselves with the USSR in 1941. Even more misguided was the harder left seeing moderate leftists as more dangerous than the right.

 

[35B]

Right to be suspicious - yes. To see them as a greater threat than the right - no. (I know it’s easy in retrospect) Not in the context of the late 1920s and 1930s they weren’t - any more than we were by allying ourselves with the USSR in 1941. Even more misguided was the harder left seeing moderate leftists as more dangerous than the right.

Agreed wholeheartedly on the KPD's view of the SPD, though that speaks volumes about Communist intolerance of others.

I'm less convinced about your view of the SPD's approach to the KPD, however tempting is with hindsight. It ignores the threat of Stalinism as viewed by a party that was fundamentally democratic - there's a lot to be said for maintaining a belief in values, and fighting for those values rather than just going for my enemy's enemy is my friend. Given the authoritarian tendencies of the Centre Party, the SPD were really alone at that time

 

[The Ham]

Breaking news just in locally - the rest of Worcestershire County Councillors have banded together to vote in a Green Councillor as Leader of the Council over Amos and Reform

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/26105601.live-worcestershire-county-council-elect-new-leader/

Slight correction on that - not all of them voted to get rid of Reform...

Thanks for the updates, as I said, interesting times (of course cue quotes aging the lines of "elites blocking the will of the people").

The counterpoint would be what we've seen in the USA, many honourable conventions have just been straight-up ignored, as they have no teeth. I don't know the answer, I'm afraid.

Maybe something which covers both.

"MP's are expected to ensure that their actions, gifts received, other sources of income (including employment) are honorable."

And then give specific examples:

An appearance on a TV show where they are paid to be there, should not be frequent. For example hosting a topical comedy show on a one off basis (even if that's up to 10 times in a parliament) would likely be seen as honorable (especially if the host could reasonably find themselves facing questions around their behaviour), whist hosting a program on a news channel where they are setting the agenda wouldn't. Likewise, even a sitting MP creating a show looking at local history linked to railway journeys would likely be honorable, although such history needs to be careful not to favour one political view.

Working in an industry to maintain professional standards would be seen as honorable (such as related to the treatment of patients), whilst working for anyone where there could be a conflict of interest between what you are being paid for and your roll as MP (and especially government minister, although even having a Party assigned roll, such as shadow minister, should mirror this as it should be assumed that roll could become ministerial if their party were to gain power - even if that currently appears unlikely).

Their staff (which may include hired security, and any security contracts may be reviewed to ensure that they meet these standards) should be expected to respond to the public in a reasonable way. For example, using de-escalating measures before physical force in nearly all situations (although it is recognised that there could be situations where a clear risk of harm means that force is required, however where this happens the MP will be asked for a full account including how the level of force was reasonable).

Where family members are employed (and it's not unreasonable to do just because they are related) careful consideration should be given to ensure that it's seen as honorable. For example, is there measurable work output for a justifiable rate of pay for that work? A spouse being paid £15 an hour for admin work and doing 15 hours a week, is unlikely to raise concerns, conversely a spouse being paid £45,000 a year and there's limited measurable output is fairly likely to raise concerns and would be more likely to be asked to the reason why and the expectation would be that such a role be subject to being advertised openly {as an aside, the "teeth" for this one could be that parliament be able to advertise job roles and the hiring process be open to scrutiny where there's potential for it not being honorable}. Whilst some limited spouse favour may, be shown (for example if the roll requires frequent travel and the saving in hotel costs can br justified), although this must be documented, justified and be on the record of members interests.

Any gifts received, including where an organisation provides you with treatment beyond what could be reasonable expected to be provided to a member of the public needs to be declared, in detail, and a short justification as to why it's honorable. For example, if an airline upgrades you for free, that is something which could be reasonable expected if it happens infrequently or as part of a frequent flyers program. Where an organisation does so for security reasons, not only does that need to be explained as part of the record in the record of members interests but also be appropriate for the level of risk compared with the level of "upgrade". For example, a guard on a busy train can reasonable invite an MP to move to first class, however, if an MP is provided with free travel then that is likely to be considered non honorable.

Likewise, a high profile MP could be invited to use a box at a sporting event where they have a record of regular attendance, however that should not be without cost (I.e. if they already hold a season ticket) and there's a reasonable reason (I.e. there could be implications to others - for example the MP is high enough ranking that they have as a matter of course a police presence and their attendance would require other fans to be relocated, and so by moving that MP to a box it removes that need to impact others - although to remove the risk of this being seen as baised in any way organisation, such as football clubs, should either have a policy or should agree to this (link) national policy {as aside, part of the policy states something like "where this provides food the MP should offer to make a contribution in line with a suitable benchmark - such as what a typical fan would reasonably pay for something to eat. Such as contributing the cost of a "pie and pint" or "hotdog and a soft drink" at the ground}

Where being invited to events the person doing the inviting should expect the invite to be able to be used:
By the MP
By one of their staff
By a charity of the MP's choice and so they are be able to use it for fundrasing
By a local state school (in rotation) either for fundraising or as a reward to staff and/or students

Where such invites are significantly accepted by the MP and so could be viewed as for their own personal gain this could be seen as not honorable, whist those who use repeat invites to gift them to charity or local schools are more likely to be viewed as honorable.

(And so on).

Yes, that still gives a lot of flex in what could honorable, however does mean that if your security team roughly handle a pensioner, that's likely to lead to questions as to your conduct.

Likewise, using the case of Starmer getting access to the box at Arsenal, it meets the security test, however it doesn't include a contribution for food (which I suspect is provided for those in the box) and so on the overall matter it's not terrible, but it's also not as honorable as should be expected.

It clearly blocks MP's from being on news channels as hosts, but wouldn't stop Michael Portillo (even if he did it whist being an MP) from doing his railway journeys stuff - but would need to be careful of what is covered.

 

[brad465]

The current bookies' odds for Makerfield are not good reading for Reform UK. Not because they are second-favourite behind Labour as things stand, but Restore Britain's (Rupert Lowe's party) odds are shortening significantly, which suggests they will challenge Reform UK and split their vote. If Burnham wins the by-election and it transpires that Restore Britain's votes added to Reform UK's would have beaten Labour, expect Lowe to make a big song and dance and Farage to have to go more extreme.

 

[GusB]

The current bookies' odds for Makerfield are not good reading for Reform UK. Not because they are second-favourite behind Labour as things stand, but Restore Britain's (Rupert Lowe's party) odds are shortening significantly, which suggests they will challenge Reform UK and split their vote. If Burnham wins the by-election and it transpires that Restore Britain's votes added to Reform UK's would have beaten Labour, expect Lowe to make a big song and dance and Farage to have to go more extreme.

Restore Britain has announced its candidate - Rebecca Shepherd. Apparently she's local to the area, so may have more appeal.

Restore Britain announces Makerfield by-election candidate

Restore Britain announces Rebecca Shepherd as its candidate for the Makerfield by-election.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Restore Britain party has announced its candidate in the Makerfield parliamentary by-election.
Local businesswoman Rebecca Shepherd, 53, was described by the party as "understanding first-hand the pressures facing local businesses and working families across the area".
The party, which was created by Great Yarmouth MP Rupert Lowe in February after he left Reform UK, is the first to confirm a candidate.
The contest was triggered by the resignation of the Labour MP for Makerfield, Josh Simons.
Restore Britain leader Lowe said Shepherd "would fight for the interests of the community, rather than political careers".
Three other official candidates for the Makerfield by-election have been announced.

Some of the responses to Rupert Lowe's announcement on Twitter were er... interesting.

 

[Krokodil]

Some of the responses to Rupert Lowe's announcement on Twitter were er... interesting.

What did they say? I can't view them without logging in and it produces an error message when I try

 

[styles]

The current bookies' odds for Makerfield are not good reading for Reform UK. Not because they are second-favourite behind Labour as things stand, but Restore Britain's (Rupert Lowe's party) odds are shortening significantly, which suggests they will challenge Reform UK and split their vote. If Burnham wins the by-election and it transpires that Restore Britain's votes added to Reform UK's would have beaten Labour, expect Lowe to make a big song and dance and Farage to have to go more extreme.

I might take 3/5 on Labour there actually. Worth a tenner punt I reckon.

 

[GusB]

What did they say? I can't view them without logging in and it produces an error message when I try

Some comments were quite blatantly racist, as can be expected. A few of the more extreme types aren't too happy with people like Zia Yusuf being in Reform, for example. However, this was particularly nasty:

Celestius (@Caelestius_) on X

I have a lot of respect for Rupert and I actually love the idea that we are putting a candidate in Makerfield. But what I don't like is the fact that he constantly talks about fielding competent people and then he goes ahead and gives a ticket to a foid. How can we have a Christian country when we …

x.com

I have a lot of respect for Rupert and I actually love the idea that we are putting a candidate in Makerfield. But what I don't like is the fact that he constantly talks about fielding competent people and then he goes ahead and gives a ticket to a foid. How can we have a Christian country when we have leaders who are girl bosses?

I had to look up "foid" - short for "feminoid", apparently. These are the people who are supposedly standing up for women and girls.

As much as I despise everything that Lowe stands for, he's doing everyone a favour because it'll divert the more extreme voters away from Reform and hopefully split the vote sufficiently that neither party will win.

 

[AlterEgo]

Some comments were quite blatantly racist, as can be expected. A few of the more extreme types aren't too happy with people like Zia Yusuf being in Reform, for example. However, this was particularly nasty:

Celestius (@Caelestius_) on X

I have a lot of respect for Rupert and I actually love the idea that we are putting a candidate in Makerfield. But what I don't like is the fact that he constantly talks about fielding competent people and then he goes ahead and gives a ticket to a foid. How can we have a Christian country when we …

x.com

That's a bot.

 

[Gloster]

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal, so beloved of their much admired president, is done between the two parties. One of the Rs will stand down to give the other a clear run against Burnham.

 

[PGAT]

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal, so beloved of their much admired president, is done between the two parties. One of the Rs will stand down to give the other a clear run against Burnham.

Both of them hate each others guts there is no chance any give each other any ground. This is the first by-election Restore Britain will stand so they want to make a large of a splash as possible.

And their supporter base (outside the algorithm bots) aren’t exactly the brightest lot. They wouldn’t tactically vote to stop a Burnham win for example

 

[The Ham]

Both of them hate each others guts there is no chance any give each other any ground. This is the first by-election Restore Britain will stand so they want to make a large of a splash as possible.

And their supporter base (outside the algorithm bots) aren’t exactly the brightest lot. They wouldn’t tactically vote to stop a Burnham win for example

Hang on, are we the People’s Front of Judea Restore or the Judean People's Front Reform and so which one can we call splitters‽

 

[styles]

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal, so beloved of their much admired president, is done between the two parties. One of the Rs will stand down to give the other a clear run against Burnham.

No chance, if you ask me. There is a reason the people in Restore Britain are in Restore Britain and not Reform UK.

 

[ainsworth74]

No chance, if you ask me. There is a reason the people in Restore Britain are in Restore Britain and not Reform UK.

Yeah I could see a Reform/Tory deal happening (though I'm not sure it's likely). But a Reform/Restore deal seems very remote.

 

[Gloster]

Reform and Restore may hate each other, but what about their business plan? They both probably realise that Burnham could well lead a resurgent Labour to a sufficiently good result in 2028 or 2029 and cut them out. They are going to have enough trouble keeping their shines on, what with their likely performance in local government, until the next election, so knobbling Burnham is what they need to do. Despite hating each other, I reckon that most rank and file voters can be persuaded to vote for the other party to ‘save Britain’ if Farage or Lowe tell that it is their patriotic duty.

 

[35B]

Yeah I could see a Reform/Tory deal happening (though I'm not sure it's likely). But a Reform/Restore deal seems very remote.

The only Reform/Tory deal I can see is a reverse takeover of the Tories by Reform. There's been too much aggro between the two for a deal, and Badenoch can't afford to be the leader who shrunk the Tories.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

Reform and Restore may hate each other, but what about their business plan? They both probably realise that Burnham could well lead a resurgent Labour to a sufficiently good result in 2028 or 2029 and cut them out. They are going to have enough trouble keeping their shines on, what with their likely performance in local government, until the next election, so knobbling Burnham is what they need to do. Despite hating each other, I reckon that most rank and file voters can be persuaded to vote for the other party to ‘save Britain’ if Farage or Lowe tell that it is their patriotic duty.

You may be right, but that presumes that either has the humility to do anything of the sort. Lowe has always been highly divisive, while Farage has enough problems with acknowledged fascists to be seen to lift the bar on them - howwever ineffective it is right now given what's emerging from Makerfield

 

[dosxuk]

Despite hating each other, I reckon that most rank and file voters can be persuaded to vote for the other party to ‘save Britain’ if Farage or Lowe tell that it is their patriotic duty.

I get the impression that Lowe would rather Burnham led Labour to a rousing victory if it meant Farage lost.

 

[ainsworth74]

The only Reform/Tory deal I can see is a reverse takeover of the Tories by Reform. There's been too much aggro between the two for a deal, and Badenoch can't afford to be the leader who shrunk the Tories.

Oh absolutely I think it's highly unlikely for the reasons you mention, I just think it's the more likely out of the two possible combinations. But both are unlikely overall I think!

 

[weeklycommuter]

In the following incident today Reform UK supporters come across as foul mouthed yobs. Why do they think this sort of behaviour will impress the majority of voters? Why does Farage think he will win votes by praising someone who uses foul language and is just abusive?

Rachel Reeves tells foul-mouthed Reform UK heckler good manners matter

Chancellor wins support from Conservative Mel Stride, while Nigel Farage says he would ‘like to buy man a pint’

www.theguardian.com

Rachel Reeves tells foul-mouthed Reform UK heckler good manners matter
Chancellor wins support from Conservative Mel Stride, while Nigel Farage says he would ‘like to buy man a pint’
Rachel Reeves surprised onlookers when she gave a stern rebuke to a foul-mouthed heckler who shouted at her from his van as she conducted a broadcast interview.
However, the chancellor has won support from unlikely sources, with Conservative politicians backing her response.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In the following incident today Reform UK supporters come across as foul mouthed yobs.

Reform supporter proves himself to be as thick as a Boxing Day poo. I'm as shocked as you are. I'm just amazed the van is taxed and MOT'd.

But I'm confused. Shouting abuse at politicians is OK according to Nigel. But Nigel didn't like people shouting abuse at him. He was so terrified by it all that he needed to take five million quid off an arms dealer/crypto investor based in Thailand to stop it.

I don't have much time for Reeves but I thought she handled it very well.

 

[Meole]

Farage playing to the crowd who hate Reeves.

 

[brad465]

I wouldn't be surprised if those who agree with the heckler include a sizeable chunk of those who say they vote Reform because they get called "racist" and other abuses. I agree bad language/insults are weak and counterproductive to gaining support for your argument, but as always, it's the hypocrisy that is most infuriating.

 

[alex397]

Interesting to see the driver of the second van filming her while he was driving past, in front of a camera! Not the brightest spark.

Both vans not exactly helping the stereotype of white van men!

 

[brad465]

Oh so Farage has now finally seen the light on the Russian threat???

Farage under mounting pressure to prove Russian hack claim

Reform UK leader claims ‘counter-espionage experts’ suggest state-sponsored hackers are behind disclosure of £5m gift

www.theguardian.com

Nigel Farage is under mounting pressure to provide evidence for his claim that a state-sponsored Russian hack was behind the disclosure of the £5m gift he received from the crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne.

Reform UK claimed over the weekend that analysis of Farage’s phone by “counter-espionage experts” suggested that “Farage’s phone, email and bank accounts were compromised by hostile actors, almost certainly linked to Moscow, using spear phishing tactics”, before the Guardian revealed details of his undeclared gift last month.


Farage told the Mail on Sunday that the alleged Russian activity was “deeply concerning” and highlighted the “threat they pose to British security”.

Farage’s claims followed intensifying scrutiny of the £5m gift he received from Harborne. Farage had not publicly declared the gift, despite parliamentary transparency rules requiring MPs to register gifts and donations above a certain threshold.

A spokesperson for the Guardian described Farage’s claim as “an attempt to deflect attention from legitimate scrutiny of his financial affairs”. They added: “Nigel Farage is once again hiding behind a baseless attack on the media rather than facing up to scrutiny from journalists and politicians.”

The spokesperson said it was absurd for Farage to suggest it had found out about the gift from a Russian hack.

 

[SuspectUsual]

If it was the Russians maybe he’d be the first person to have his bank account hacked and money deposited rather than withdrawn

 

[JGurney]

If it was the Russians maybe he’d be the first person to have his bank account hacked and money deposited rather than withdrawn