Reform UK discussion

[The exile]

That's if they ever see them.

In fact, in lots of cases, the opposition ceases when they do see them (at an individual level at least).
And some of the opposition that remains is only related to immigrants because that’s who the groups of young men hanging around apparently are. Gangs of local tearaways hanging around street corners also cause concern - but don’t provide the “easy meat” for racist social media (etc) agitators.

 

[The Ham]

In fact, in lots of cases, the opposition ceases when they do see them (at an individual level at least).

In the last 15 years a town with 10,000 people would (if the UK was scaled down to that size) would have seen a total of 30 arrivals by small boats.

Often what is being seen is wider asylum seekers, including those from places where there's agreements (such as Afghanistan).

That's assuming that there's correct identification of those that are asylum seekers or have been asylum seekers in the past.

 

[nw1]

Buried deep in the BBC news pages:

Groan.
Local election 2026 results: Reform takes control of Essex County Council and Thurrock - BBC News

How can you actually take these people seriously? What's he going to do, start a war with the Borough of Islington, ostensibly because he thinks it builds nuclear weapons?

More evidence that the theory that the affluent middle-class do not vote Reform is false, perhaps: AFAIK Ongar is an affluent commuter-belt town.

Essex does seem to be a very strange place politically, looking at it from an outsider's point of view. Something about it seems to make it significantly more right-wing than the other counties surrounding London.

 

[The exile]

In the last 15 years a town with 10,000 people would (if the UK was scaled down to that size) would have seen a total of 30 arrivals by small boats.

Often what is being seen is wider asylum seekers, including those from places where there's agreements (such as Afghanistan).

That's assuming that there's correct identification of those that are asylum seekers or have been asylum seekers in the past.

“Asylum seekers” or “immigrants” are just a convenient grouping for social media/ pub rants. “You ain’t from round here” long predates mass immigration and applies just as much to people from the next town as to those from half the globe away (sometimes even more so). There are of course twisted individuals who “develop” racism into an evil principle but that is not the motivation of the majority. Those who glibly equate the two are probably responsible for quite a lot of the Reform momentum.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I'm fairly neutral on migration issues, but I believe illegal immigration would be welcome if the migrants were, for example, young women from Scandinavia. It's that 90% are single men from predominantly-Muslim countries which causes concern, especially when they're allowed to roam free in small communities. A few here and there wouldn't be a problem but there are now more than 200,000 which is quite disproportionate.

 

[brad465]

I'm fairly neutral on migration issues, but I believe illegal immigration would be welcome if the migrants were, for example, young women from Scandinavia. It's that 90% are single men from predominantly-Muslim countries which causes concern, especially when they're allowed to roam free in small communities. A few here and there wouldn't be a problem but there are now more than 200,000 which is quite disproportionate.

There's a very good reason why illegal immigration might be 90% of single men from those countries: the Israeli government's doctrine is bomb the life out of all its neighbours, forcing those people to flee, and as Europe is next door, they come here. Likewise Russia adopt this doctrine too, although since invading Ukraine their ability to do so has been weakened. Perhaps if European governments had the backbone to sanction Israel to the hilt to force them to change tact, these people would live happily ever after in their homeland, and the governments in question, including successive UK ones, wouldn't have to have illegal immigration as an electoral liability on their backs.

Reform UK will not sort this out due to a combination of incompetence and being in receipt of the sort of money that makes them back Israeli and Russian interests.

 

[AlterEgo]

There's a very good reason why illegal immigration might be 90% of single men from those countries: the Israeli government's doctrine is bomb the life out of all its neighbours, forcing those people to flee

Sorry, have they been bombing Pakistan and Eritrea? Bangladesh? Afghanistan? Sudan? Somalia? Those are all the top small boat arrivals other than Iran, which has been a top 5 small boat arrival for some time, before Israel started bombing it.

Not everything is Israel's fault.

 

[brad465]

Sorry, have they been bombing Pakistan and Eritrea? Bangladesh? Afghanistan? Sudan? Somalia? Those are all the top small boat arrivals other than Iran, which has been a top 5 small boat arrival for some time, before Israel started bombing it.

Not everything is Israel's fault.

Okay, that's where past/present military action by others has contributed. Russian mercenaries are all over North Africa (although that might change soon as they seem to be losing ground/influence), while Afghanistan and to a lesser extent Pakistan can be linked to US-led operations. Can't explain Bangladesh, I'll give you that, which is also interesting given they've had to take loads of refugees in from Myanmar.

 

[GusB]

Okay, that's where past/present military action by others has contributed. Russian mercenaries are all over North Africa (although that might change soon as they seem to be losing ground/influence), while Afghanistan and to a lesser extent Pakistan can be linked to US-led operations. Can't explain Bangladesh, I'll give you that, which is also interesting given they've had to take loads of refugees in from Myanmar.

I'd imagine there is a strong pull factor for Bangladeshi migrants because there's already a fairly sizeable population here - just over 1% of the population (England and Wales, source ONS https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...lletins/ethnicgroupenglandandwales/census2021).

 

[317 forever]

Reform were just 7% ahead of the 2nd largest party, conveniently Labour, in Thursday's elections.

Given that local elections are notorious for low turnout and protest votes, it does not seem a foregone conclusion that Reform will have the largest vote share at the 2028-29 GE yet alone that they will get into government.

 

[Ted633]

Reform were just 7% ahead of the 2nd largest party, conveniently Labour, in Thursday's elections.

Given that local elections are notorious for low turnout and protest votes, it does not seem a foregone conclusion that Reform will have the largest vote share at the 2028-29 GE yet alone that they will get into government.

Indeed. Not quite on the same scale, but look at how well UKIP did in the local elections in 2013/14 compared to the GE in 2015. Can’t see Reform disappearing in the same way, but I think they will get a reasonable proportion of the vote in 2029, but it won’t translate into seats

 

[317 forever]

Indeed. Not quite on the same scale, but look at how well UKIP did in the local elections in 2013/14 compared to the GE in 2015. Can’t see Reform disappearing in the same way, but I think they will get a reasonable proportion of the vote in 2029, but it won’t translate into seats

I think it could lead to Reform gaining seats, enough to prevent any majority government but not a government they would have the numbers themselves to lead.

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder if secretly Farage might actually prefer to be the official opposition. As Labour have shown, it’s a much easier job, and you still get all the press and media coverage unlike when you are a minor party, you get near enough equal billing with the government without actually having to do any hard work.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if secretly Farage might actually prefer to be the official opposition. As Labour have shown, it’s a much easier job, and you still get all the press and media coverage unlike when you are a minor party, you get near enough equal billing with the government without actually having to do any hard work.

I certainly don't think he wants to be in a position where he has to do actual work. He must like the MP role where he can travel abroad (and not on official business) and barely attend his constituency or Parliament. Plus he doesn't like being asked awkward questions and reacts like Trump does when asked a fair question, but one that is hard to answer.

 

[Harpo]

I wonder if secretly Farage might actually prefer to be the official opposition. As Labour have shown, it’s a much easier job, and you still get all the press and media coverage unlike when you are a minor party, you get near enough equal billing with the government without actually having to do any hard work.

Might be a good question for Clacton’s constituents to ask what their local MP has actually done for their area? Career wise, has Farage ever created anything other than disruption and personal wealth?

 

[brad465]

I wonder if secretly Farage might actually prefer to be the official opposition. As Labour have shown, it’s a much easier job, and you still get all the press and media coverage unlike when you are a minor party, you get near enough equal billing with the government without actually having to do any hard work.

I certainly don't think he wants to be in a position where he has to do actual work. He must like the MP role where he can travel abroad (and not on official business) and barely attend his constituency or Parliament. Plus he doesn't like being asked awkward questions and reacts like Trump does when asked a fair question, but one that is hard to answer.

Given we now know from reports that he only stood as an MP after receiving a £5m bung from a crypto billionaire, I'd say the notion he's better off not in any position of power is pretty accurate. However, if he thinks as PM he can trouser a lot more, he'll go for it if there is a realistic chance of becoming PM. If however Reform start slipping away as we near the general election, I can see him doing a runner and then the party support will collapse (as nobody else in the party has his gravitas for getting votes).

 

[jon0844]

Given we now know from reports that he only stood as an MP after receiving a £5m bung from a crypto billionaire, I'd say the notion he's better off not in any position of power is pretty accurate. However, if he thinks as PM he can trouser a lot more, he'll go for it if there is a realistic chance of becoming PM. If however Reform start slipping away as we near the general election, I can see him doing a runner and then the party support will collapse (as nobody else in the party has his gravitas for getting votes).

I suppose he give it a go for a short time just so he can say he's been PM. He doesn't need to do much, and only really needs to last longer than Liz Truss - who herself seems capable of touring the world (mostly the USA) to talk about British politics and the downfall of Britain like a true patriot.

Why are these people always talking down the country at the same time as waving flags?

 

[The Ham]

The worst curse imaginable;"'may you live in interesting times".

On a totally unrelated note:

'Chaos' at council: could Reform split in Worcestershire? - BBC News https://share.google/TpCwduT3y0r7GTnkR

A Reform politician who is trying to become leader of Worcestershire County Council could be facing a challenge from within his own group - with opponents claiming the administration is in a state of chaos.

Reform ousted their own group leader, councillor Jo Monk, with Alan Amos replacing her in an internal leadership vote last month.

Now, a leaked email seen by the BBC has revealed how Monk has informed senior council staff of "the possibility" of several Reform councillors breaking away "to form a new group".

It comes ahead of a vote to elect a new leader in a full council meeting on Thursday, with Reform already running the authority as a minority administration.

On Monday, Monk was suspended by Reform's national office, with party officials claiming she was "refusing to accept the democratic decision" which saw her replaced as group leader by Amos.

Her son Ashley, also a councillor, has also been suspended for bringing the party into disrepute.

Ashley Monk has since quit the party, while Jo Monk remains council leader until Thursday's vote - despite the fact she is suspended and is no longer politically aligned with her cabinet.

The BBC also understands Bromsgrove Reform councillor Nik Price has put himself forward as an alternative leader, with several other Reform councillors supporting an attempt to force a fresh vote within the group to elect him as their leader before the meeting.

Amos has emailed Reform councillors appealing for unity in a bid to kill the plotting off.

In it, he said "the Tories destroyed themselves by having three leaders in three weeks", adding "the only thing that can stop us succeeding is disloyalty and betrayal within our own ranks."

 

[styles]

The worst curse imaginable;"'may you live in interesting times".

On a totally unrelated note:

'Chaos' at council: could Reform split in Worcestershire? - BBC News https://share.google/TpCwduT3y0r7GTnkR

It's kinda sad and funny. Reform have a golden opportunity with the infighting in Labour at the moment, and they're going to squander it by having their own coups.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Too much ego, too little ability, no desire to knuckle down and graft

Applies to 90% of modern politicians across all parties

 

[BAFRA77]

The worst curse imaginable;"'may you live in interesting times".

On a totally unrelated note:

'Chaos' at council: could Reform split in Worcestershire? - BBC News https://share.google/TpCwduT3y0r7GTnkR

Amos is a VERY interesting politician:

Amos was elected as the Conservative Member of Parliament for Hexham in the 1987 general election.

After failing to be readopted as a Conservative councillor in the London Borough of Enfield, where he had previously been deputy leader of the council, he joined the Labour Party in 1994, giving a self-exculpatory interview to The Spectator magazine. In the 2001 general election he fought the Hitchin and Harpenden constituency for Labour, coming second to the Conservative Peter Lilley.

He was elected for Labour to the Millwall ward of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets in 2002, serving as councillor for four years before losing the seat to the Conservatives in the 2006 election. He returned to local politics in May 2008 with his election as a Labour councillor for the Warndon ward of Worcester City Council. In 2013 he was also elected as a Labour member of Worcestershire County Council.

Following the May 2014 local government elections, the composition of Worcester City Council was 17 Conservative, 16 Labour, 1 Liberal Democrat and 1 Green, making both major groups reliant on minority support to gain control of the council. Before the Council AGM, Alan Amos announced he was leaving the Labour group to sit as an Independent councillor, allegedly from dissatisfaction that he had not been selected by Labour as a future mayor of Worcester. At the council's AGM on 3 June 2014, Amos accepted the Conservative nomination as mayor of Worcester, and, as mayor, voted for the Council administration to change from Labour to Conservative.

Following the 2015 Worcester City Council election and hours before his tenure as Mayor of Worcester was to end, Amos announced he was rejoining the Conservative party. In the 2024 Worcester City Council election he was re-elected and was the sole Conservative on the city council. In 2025, then sat as an Independent on the city council and on Worcestershire County Council.

On 3 April 2025 Amos announced that, after less than four months as an independent councillor, he was joining Reform UK, saying:

"The approach from Reform was unexpected but I have found that we have much in common on the need for Britain to change direction and make a decisive break from the old, tired and discredited parties."

 

[35B]

Amos is a VERY interesting politician:

Amos was elected as the Conservative Member of Parliament for Hexham in the 1987 general election.

After failing to be readopted as a Conservative councillor in the London Borough of Enfield, where he had previously been deputy leader of the council, he joined the Labour Party in 1994, giving a self-exculpatory interview to The Spectator magazine. In the 2001 general election he fought the Hitchin and Harpenden constituency for Labour, coming second to the Conservative Peter Lilley.

He was elected for Labour to the Millwall ward of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets in 2002, serving as councillor for four years before losing the seat to the Conservatives in the 2006 election. He returned to local politics in May 2008 with his election as a Labour councillor for the Warndon ward of Worcester City Council. In 2013 he was also elected as a Labour member of Worcestershire County Council.

Following the May 2014 local government elections, the composition of Worcester City Council was 17 Conservative, 16 Labour, 1 Liberal Democrat and 1 Green, making both major groups reliant on minority support to gain control of the council. Before the Council AGM, Alan Amos announced he was leaving the Labour group to sit as an Independent councillor, allegedly from dissatisfaction that he had not been selected by Labour as a future mayor of Worcester. At the council's AGM on 3 June 2014, Amos accepted the Conservative nomination as mayor of Worcester, and, as mayor, voted for the Council administration to change from Labour to Conservative.[14]

Following the 2015 Worcester City Council election and hours before his tenure as Mayor of Worcester was to end, Amos announced he was rejoining the Conservative party. In the 2024 Worcester City Council election he was re-elected and was the sole Conservative on the city council. In 2025, then sat as an Independent on the city council and on Worcestershire County Council.

On 3 April 2025 Amos announced that, after less than four months as an independent councillor, he was joining Reform UK, saying:

"The approach from Reform was unexpected but I have found that we have much in common on the need for Britain to change direction and make a decisive break from the old, tired and discredited parties."

Judging by his Wiki entry, he is at least in some ways coming home (text copied at 10:13 14th May):

Amos was elected as the Conservative Member of Parliament for Hexham in the 1987 general election.

In Parliament, Amos was known for his right wing views, e.g., he believed rapists and muggers should be flogged.[4] He was opposed to tobacco advertising.[5]

Shortly before the 1992 general election, Amos was arrested, along with another man, at a well-known homosexual pickup spot on Hampstead Heath. Amos was not charged but accepted a police caution for indecency, and stood down as MP for Hexham.[6][7]

 

[brad465]

Too much ego, too little ability, no desire to knuckle down and graft

Applies to 90% of modern politicians across all parties

And this is why we need much tougher standards for politicians than currently exists, and/or enforcement of existing ones. The most important new standard should be banning all second income/jobs. For existing offences, they should be investigated by an independent body whenever they see fit, not when MPs agree to vote for an investigation and then its done by a committee of MPs.

Tougher standards would encourage parties to vet their candidates more thoroughly, as otherwise they are prone to a plethora of resignations/dismissals on the job.

 

[The exile]

And this is why we need much tougher standards for politicians than currently exists, and/or enforcement of existing ones. The most important new standard should be banning all second income/jobs.

“Second income” is difficult - are you suggesting an artist who becomes an MP has to stop painting / selling their paintings? A restriction on taking up (new) paid employment might work though.

 

[BAFRA77]

The worst curse imaginable;"'may you live in interesting times".

On a totally unrelated note:

'Chaos' at council: could Reform split in Worcestershire? - BBC News https://share.google/TpCwduT3y0r7GTnkR

Breaking news just in locally - the rest of Worcestershire County Councillors have banded together to vote in a Green Councillor as Leader of the Council over Amos and Reform

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/26105601.live-worcestershire-county-council-elect-new-leader/

10:49am - 14/05/26

New leader of Worcestershire County Council

Jo Monk has resigned as leader, it has been announced.

Finance chief Rob Wharton nominates Reform's Alan Amos for leader.

Matt Jenkins, leader of the Green and independent group, is nominated by Cllr Boatright-Greene.

"I'm not willing to sit through another year of this," says Cllr Boatright-Greene.

Cllr Jenkins' nomination is seconded by Tory group leader Adam Kent, so yes it looks like the opposition groups have banded together to kick Reform out of power.

He says there has been an "appalling level of instability" under Reform.

"Responsible councillors have to stop standing on the sidelines and fix the problem," says Cllr Kent.

He describes a "partnership administration".

Matt Jenkins is the new leader of Worcestershire County Council

 

[brad465]

“Second income” is difficult - are you suggesting an artist who becomes an MP has to stop painting / selling their paintings? A restriction on taking up (new) paid employment might work though.

Lobbying work would be a definite no no in this proposal, along with hosting any TV or radio shows. Any jobs where competence needs to be maintained, such as doctors, can be done to the minimum requirement though.

 

[BAFRA77]

Breaking news just in locally - the rest of Worcestershire County Councillors have banded together to vote in a Green Councillor as Leader of the Council over Amos and Reform

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/26105601.live-worcestershire-county-council-elect-new-leader/

Slight correction on that - not all of them voted to get rid of Reform...

11:14am - 14/05/26

Labour voted against Cllr Jenkins​

Interesting that Labour voted against his nomination. Lib Dems, Tories, Greens and independents banded together to kick out Reform.
There's an adjournment while party leaders work out what happens next.

 

[35B]

And this is why we need much tougher standards for politicians than currently exists, and/or enforcement of existing ones. The most important new standard should be banning all second income/jobs. For existing offences, they should be investigated by an independent body whenever they see fit, not when MPs agree to vote for an investigation and then its done by a committee of MPs.

Tougher standards would encourage parties to vet their candidates more thoroughly, as otherwise they are prone to a plethora of resignations/dismissals on the job.

No, tougher enforcement will just bring more and more edge cases that lead to a lot of noise and not a lot of progress.

There's a fundamental issue here, in that you are talking about putting an (unelected) regulator who will determine how elected representatives can work. Elected representatives who can change the law about that regulator, it's worth noting.

MPs are referred to as "Honourable Members" because the expectation is that they are, well, honourable. Put more and more rules in place, and you get precisely the sort of excuse making that we've seen with NF and his £5m, based on compliance with the letter of rules rather than the basics of being able to represent the electors of their seat. That would include, should it be brought in, debates over whether hosting TV shows is or isn't acceptable -- just think about how to write a policy that distinguishes between Charles Kennedy appearing on Have I Got News For You, and NF or JRM having their own programmes.

 

[jon0844]

The worst curse imaginable;"'may you live in interesting times".

On a totally unrelated note:

'Chaos' at council: could Reform split in Worcestershire? - BBC News https://share.google/TpCwduT3y0r7GTnkR

I'm sure the BBC and GB News etc will treat all the resignations/sackings of Reform councillors (there have been quite a few already and many more to come soon) in the same way as they've been talking about Labour and Keir Starmer with virtually no other news coverage at all. GB News in particular, who I'm sure won't cover a single Reform councillor loss even when since the last election it runs at about 7%.

 

[Yew]

No, tougher enforcement will just bring more and more edge cases that lead to a lot of noise and not a lot of progress.

There's a fundamental issue here, in that you are talking about putting an (unelected) regulator who will determine how elected representatives can work. Elected representatives who can change the law about that regulator, it's worth noting.

MPs are referred to as "Honourable Members" because the expectation is that they are, well, honourable. Put more and more rules in place, and you get precisely the sort of excuse making that we've seen with NF and his £5m, based on compliance with the letter of rules rather than the basics of being able to represent the electors of their seat. That would include, should it be brought in, debates over whether hosting TV shows is or isn't acceptable -- just think about how to write a policy that distinguishes between Charles Kennedy appearing on Have I Got News For You, and NF or JRM having their own programmes.

The counterpoint would be what we've seen in the USA, many honourable conventions have just been straight-up ignored, as they have no teeth. I don't know the answer, I'm afraid.