Reform UK discussion

[Gloster]

If you want to criticise Reform, try doing it based on what they have actually said, rather than what you have made up. In case you haven't noticed, it is Labour who are pushing ID cards, and Reform are clearly opposed.

The problem is that there is no clarity on what their policies are other than ’Stop the boats/Send ’em back’ and ’Save residents/taxpayers money’. Populistic policies but there is very little detail: what various leading Reform people, who seem to change frequently, say is usually unclear, often contradictory and sometimes wrong (Andrea Jenkyn’s promise to sack the diversity officers that didn’t exist, for example). Farage is playing a well-tried game: keep the message simple. So we have to base our criticism on what information we do have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is that there is no clarity on what their policies are other than ’Stop the boats/Send ’em back’ and ’Save residents/taxpayers money’. Populistic policies but there is very little detail: what various leading Reform people, who seem to change frequently, say is usually unclear, often contradictory and sometimes wrong (Andrea Jenkyn’s promise to sack the diversity officers that didn’t exist, for example). Farage is playing a well-tried game: keep the message simple. So we have to base our criticism on what information we do have.

The problem is that they're more an anti-immigration campaign group than a viable political party.

Farage has done this over many years, e.g. UKIP, which basically had only one viable policy, to leave the European Union. When they actually get power, they thus end up in a bit of a pickle because they suddenly need policies on day-to-day things that they don't have and that may prove controversial with their voters.

In some ways, I wonder if they don't actually want power, they just want to influence what other parties (primarily the Conservatives) do.

 

[AlterEgo]

The problem is that they're more an anti-immigration campaign group than a viable political party. Farage has done this over many years, e.g. UKIP which basically had only one viable policy, to leave the European Union. When they actually get power they thus end up in a bit of a pickle because they suddenly need policies on day to day things that they don't have and that may prove controversial with their voters. In some ways I wonder if they don't actually want power, they just want to influence what other parties (primarily the Conservatives) do.

Farage isn't interested in power and in this way - along with many others - he is not a fascist, as many people try to smear him.

He is basically a suited grifter who churns up grievances with The System and promises fixes are easy. This is why Reform does well with low information voters who are not engaged with the political processes of this country.

 

[35B]

Farage isn't interested in power and in this way - along with many others - he is not a fascist, as many people try to smear him.

He is basically a suited grifter who churns up grievances with The System and promises fixes are easy. This is why Reform does well with low information voters who are not engaged with the political processes of this country.

I dislike the word "fascist" as it is - and always has been - so vague a term as to be meaningless as a form of analysis.

However, Farage is more than just a grifter, and he does have a vision of how things should be. It's a very narrow vision, and it follows a classic right wing authoritarian pattern of prioritising the power of whoever is in charge, combined with nativism and a bread and circuses view of how government should deal with the mass electorate.

The effect of a Faragist government would be to move Britain more in the direction of the hyper-personalised politics of Orban or Trump. Public spending would be bent towards those who support the ruler, and the checks and balances that a liberal democracy relies upon would be broken. For most of us, most of the time, little would change day to day - but those "outside" the ruling consensus would suffer. I'd expect migration enforcement to be ratcheted up, and the behaviour of ICE to be seen as a pattern to follow rather than a warning.

 

[ainsworth74]

The problem is that they're more an anti-immigration campaign group than a viable political party. Farage has done this over many years, e.g. UKIP which basically had only one viable policy, to leave the European Union. When they actually get power they thus end up in a bit of a pickle because they suddenly need policies on day to day things that they don't have and that may prove controversial with their voters.

Well yes that's the deep irony at the heart of Reform. The voter base needs the social security and healthcare that we currently have in the form of benefits, state pensions, the NHS, etc but the Reform leadership and funders want to slash those very same things to bone to free up money for tax cuts (and/or to make a killing in the new privatised NHS and similar). The very people that will carry Reform to power are the same people that are going to be offered up for sacrifice once Reform have to start making difficult decisions rather than just being able to blame small boats and immigrants (or whoever else is the enemy that week, wasn't it the other day that Tice went after autistic kids wearing ear defenders?).

One of the interesting things going on in America right now is that it seems that certain elements of the MAGA movement are beginning to realise that they've voted in a leader that will throw them to the wolves. The Republicans have stripped out various subsidies to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) after the recent Government shutdown and now premiums are set to skyrocket next year.

Republicans have said for months they had plenty of time to figure out what to do about Obamacare subsidies expiring at year’s end. During a six-week government shutdown that ended last week, they said they’d talk about it after. Now, with five weeks to go before New Year’s, they’re scrambling and divided.

Moderates and lawmakers in competitive seats are anxiously throwing bills together, worried about the political fallout that could await them if the subsidies expire and premiums skyrocket. Other Republicans simply want to have some bill to offer when the Senate votes next month on a likely Democratic plan to extend the subsidies as is. Republicans rejected that when Democrats offered it during the shutdown, but agreed to hold the vote.

[...]

Open enrollment has already started for Obamacare plans and consumers are facing an average increase of 114 percent to their out-of-pocket premiums, according to an analysis from the health policy research group KFF.

Some House Republicans are even taking Democrats’ side. Rep. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.) said he preferred Republicans agree to a one-year extension if they can’t come up with something better.

“What we’ve got to do now very rapidly is get beyond several ideas and concepts for a substantive plan,” he said. “You can’t double or more people’s premiums.”

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer proposed a one-year extension two weeks ago.

Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.), a moderate who is retiring after this term and backs a bill calling for a two-year extension of the subsidies, predicted Republicans will need 60 votes in the Senate for any legislation and suggested making a deal.

“We’ve got to have a better long-term plan. I don’t really want people’s premiums to go up,” Bacon said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/23/republicans-obamacare-affordable-care-subsidies-trump-00665346

I have absolutely no doubt that if Reform win the next election we will see very similar moments of "Leopards Eating Faces" here in the UK when Reform enact policies that harm the very people that voted them into power. Or, if they don't do that, that they'll soon disintegrate under the weight of the contradictions they'll face in trying to implement policies without harming those voters leading to another five years of stagnation and rudderless leadership which is something we can so afford these days...

Farage isn't interested in power and in this way - along with many others - he is not a fascist, as many people try to smear him.

He is basically a suited grifter who churns up grievances with The System and promises fixes are easy. This is why Reform does well with low information voters who are not engaged with the political processes of this country.

My opinion has been for a while that the worst thing that ever happened to him was winning the Referendum in 2016 up until then he had an excellent job. A cushy MEP gig that paid a reasonable sum of money (with a good pension), a nice soapbox that allowed him to proselytise from on the floor of the EU Parliament, he had a decent political machine back in the UK to keep his name in the news over here when needed, and plenty of speaking gigs and media appearances to help the flow of money from there. All in all he was set and even better in a near run thing he was guaranteed even more clout in the recriminations afterwards (never forget that Mr Farage said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.").

But then he went and actually won the thing and all that blew up in his face...

I don't think it's any coincidence that he fled the scene shortly after the Referendum in 2016 and didn't really surface again properly until late 2018 with Reform UK (née Brexit Party). I think he needed that long to work out a new strategy and for the Tories to begin to disintegrate so badly that there was scope for him to find new ways of flourishing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Have you noticed how Reform are now focusing on “Christmas being banned” and how there’s too much neurodiversity in schools?

Here’s the small boats arrivals for this last week:


(Photo shows no arrivals by small boat from 18 to 24 November.)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2025 ==

Farage isn't interested in power and in this way - along with many others - he is not a fascist, as many people try to smear him.

He is basically a suited grifter who churns up grievances with The System and promises fixes are easy.

The grifting and the fascism aren’t mutually exclusive.

Mussolini didn’t start out as a fascist. He tried being an intellectual and he tried being a journalist and he tried being an anti-imperialist socialist. He tried different grifts until he found one that worked.

I’m not sure Farage has the attention span to be an efficient dictator, but then I thought the same about Trump. And, as with Trump, the people surrounding Farage do have the required attention span.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, lots of people on FB with Reform avatars or flags saying we can't say Christmas anymore and it's all 'seasons greetings' or the use of the word 'festive'.

Our council had the Christmas lights turned on and said as much, but the called it Festive Friday as it was on a Friday and there were rides and attractions also. That got people super angry as they didn't call it a Christmas Friday or something...

We all know it's Christmas but you don't need to say the word all the time, any more than every lamp post needs a flag on it.

 

[generalnerd]

Yeah, lots of people on FB with Reform avatars or flags saying we can't say Christmas anymore and it's all 'seasons greetings' or the use of the word 'festive'.

Our council had the Christmas lights turned on and said as much, but the called it Festive Friday as it was on a Friday and there were rides and attractions also. That got people super angry as they didn't call it a Christmas Friday or something...

We all know it's Christmas but you don't need to say the word all the time, any more than every lamp post needs a flag on it.

Where are they getting the information that Christmas is banned in schools and that we can’t say Christmas?

 

[alex397]

Where are they getting the information that Christmas is banned in schools and that we can’t say Christmas?

Probably some Russian or Sri Lankan bot on a Facebook page with a title like ‘Yesterday’s Britain’ or suchlike…

Facebook is full of these rage-baiting nostalgic pages aimed at Reform voters and other racists, which many seem to fall for.

 

[generalnerd]

Probably some Russian or Sri Lankan bot on a Facebook page with a title like ‘Yesterday’s Britain’ or suchlike…

With the good old ai generated images and random historical photos

 

[greatkingrat]

Have you noticed how Reform are now focusing on “Christmas being banned” and how there’s too much neurodiversity in schools?

Here’s the small boats arrivals for this last week:

(Photo shows no arrivals by small boat from 18 to 24 November.)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2025 ==

In case you haven't noticed, it is the beginning of winter. The number of crossings is heavily dependent on the weather. One weeks figures on their own means very little.

 

[generalnerd]

In case you haven't noticed, it is the beginning of winter. The number of crossings is heavily dependent on the weather. One weeks figures on their own means very little.

Yes but they can’t clamour on about this weeks figure which they often do

 

[GusB]

Yeah, lots of people on FB with Reform avatars or flags saying we can't say Christmas anymore and it's all 'seasons greetings' or the use of the word 'festive'.

Our council had the Christmas lights turned on and said as much, but the called it Festive Friday as it was on a Friday and there were rides and attractions also. That got people super angry as they didn't call it a Christmas Friday or something...

We all know it's Christmas but you don't need to say the word all the time, any more than every lamp post needs a flag on it.

The mind boggles! As far back as I can remember there have been Christmas cards printed with "Seasons Greetings" on them; nobody kicked up a fuss back then.

It's the usual festive season's greetin (in the Scots sense) from the Reform lot!

 

[AlterEgo]

In case you haven't noticed, it is the beginning of winter. The number of crossings is heavily dependent on the weather. One weeks figures on their own means very little.

Yes, but it also means Reform can't actively talk about it and the quieter news cycle on this front means we're getting stuff like Farage basically admitting only to being racist *about* people and not to their faces.

 

[jon0844]

The mind boggles! As far back as I can remember there have been Christmas cards printed with "Seasons Greetings" on them; nobody kicked up a fuss back then.

It's the usual festive season's greetin (in the Scots sense) from the Reform lot!

If it isn't pubs not flying flags because Muslims complained, it's Easter Eggs being called chocolate eggs because the world has gone woke (but ignoring the fact the words Easter Eggs is written on the back or elsewhere on the box).

There's a famous calendar image that shows all the things people get outraged about during the year. It's not even parody because there really are people getting angry about stuff that isn't true (or there was one or two isolated cases, possibly, maybe or probably not).

 

[generalnerd]

There's a famous calendar image that shows all the things people get outraged about during the year. It's not even parody because there really are people getting angry about stuff that isn't true (or there was one or two isolated cases, possibly, maybe or probably not).

It’s bang on as well

 

[martin butler]

I actually think gaining power will be their undoing, See, protest is easy, you can lie about anything, and some people will believe it, because they want it to be true,

But with power, comes accountability, you can't hide behind vague slogans, and as we are seeing with local councils, once the slogans and false outrage is stripped away, what are you left with?

People who don't have the first clue what being a local official means, because their lies are exposed, cut waste? already done, Woke? oh, you mean I can't pick on people who are weaker than me, what's left, fly the flag, not out of unity, but out of desperation, and to be divisive and they can't even get the flag the right way up, I'm white, and i'm right, that should be the next slogan, because, isn't that what reform s really about ?

 

[sor]

Don't forget the original and best - Birmingham's Winterval, which would still feature in the usual newspapers as an example of PC gone mad / "woke" well into the 2010s. Even though the people who came up with the campaign have repeatedly pointed out that it was not about intentionally diluting any particular religious festival, but because there's a lot more going on at that time of year.

I wonder if, like many Reform ideas, this is a US import. The complaint about "seasons greetings" is classic yank.

 

[SteveP29]

It’s bang on as well

I have a more detailed version of that......

I actually think gaining power will be their undoing, See, protest is easy, you can lie about anything, and some people will believe it, because they want it to be true,

But with power, comes accountability, you can't hide behind vague slogans, and as we are seeing with local councils, once the slogans and false outrage is stripped away, what are you left with?

People who don't have the first clue what being a local official means, because their lies are exposed, cut waste? already done, Woke? oh, you mean I can't pick on people who are weaker than me, what's left, fly the flag, not out of unity, but out of desperation, and to be divisive and they can't even get the flag the right way up, I'm white, and i'm right, that should be the next slogan, because, isn't that what reform s really about ?

This is why I've said for a little while now that one of two things will happen within 6 months of the next General Election.

Farage will 'retire' again for 1 or both of these reasons:
1, If it looks like Reform are going to win, he'll retire because he's a workshy grifter, without, as others have pointed out, the ethic to get stuck in and do what the leader of the country needs to do or
2, If it looks like Reform are not going to win, he'll retire and blame it al, on the establishment, with some such rubbish as 'they wouldn't want people like us, ordinary people, to run the country. We've been prevented from doing so by the Royal Family, the press, the rich, the EU, FIFA, the USA and immigrants'

Either way, give it 6 months after the Gneral Election, and he'll be back, with a new party, an even more extreme version of those that preceeded it.

 

[generalnerd]

I have a more detailed version of that......
View attachment 193004

It needs ‘flags’ all year

 

[brad465]

We've had three former Tory MPs now defect to Reform, including the Commons' monkey chanter Jonathan Gullis:

Ex-Conservative deputy chair among Tory defections to Reform

Jonathan Gullis defects to Reform along with fellow former Tory MPs Chris Green and Lia Nici.

www.bbc.co.uk

The former deputy chairman of the Conservative Party is among three ex-Tory MPs who have defected to Reform UK.
Jonathan Gullis, who represented Stoke-on-Trent North until 2024, confirmed his defection and said he believed the Conservatives had "lost touch with the people it was meant to serve".
Chris Green, former Bolton West MP, and Lia Nici, who represented Great Grimsby, have also joined Reform, the party confirmed to the BBC.
The latest round of defections are the first since Danny Kruger, the sitting MP for East Wiltshire, left the Tories to join Reform in September.
Gullis, who currently serves as mayor of Kidsgrove in Staffordshire, said: "From failing to control both legal and illegal migration to pursuing a Net Zero agenda that has seen a rise in our household energy bills and put jobs in Stoke-on-Trent's world famous ceramics sector at risk, the Conservative Party has understandably lost the trust of the British people."
During Gullis's time in Parliament, he served as Minister for School Standards in the Department for Education and was appointed as deputy chairman of the Conservative Party last year.
His defection came one month after councillor Daniel Jellyman, the Conservative group leader on Stoke-on-Trent City Council, also joined Reform UK and became the party's leader on the local authority.

Accepting former Tory MPs, including someone who was a former Deputy Chairman, doesn't exactly scream "anti-establishment"

 

[jon0844]

I believe Jonathan Gullis couldn't find a job the whole time? Is there absolutely nothing he is able to do work wise?

Guess you don't need to do any work in Reform though. Dream job for the lazy!

 

[Harpo]

This is why I've said for a little while now that one of two things will happen within 6 months of the next General Election.


Farage will 'retire' again for 1 or both of these reasons:

Or Farage will go simply because his work as Tice’s stalking horse is complete, leaving him with the kudos and financial grifts that ‘former PM’ status brings.

 

[DarloRich]

We've had three former Tory MPs now defect to Reform, including the Commons' monkey chanter Jonathan Gullis:

The Reform recycling machine in action ..............

 

[OhNoAPacer]

The Reform recycling machine in action ..............

They'll have none of that woke recycling nonsense.

 

[DarloRich]

They'll have none of that woke recycling nonsense.

unless it is braying tories!

 

[contrex]

I dislike the word "fascist" as it is - and always has been - so vague a term as to be meaningless as a form of analysis.

Always? Really? In Italy 1921 onwards? Marxists like Gramsci made it clear at that time. Benito's lot had the tactic of dragging the Socialist Party on to a terrain of compromise... does that sound familiar?

 

[BAFRA77]

We've had three former Tory MPs now defect to Reform, including the Commons' monkey chanter Jonathan Gullis:



Accepting former Tory MPs, including someone who was a former Deputy Chairman, doesn't exactly scream "anti-establishment"

He must have an incredibly short memory…

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/jonathan-gullis-reform-defection-video-b2875782.html

Jonathan Gullis insists ‘not a cat’s chance in hell’ of defecting to Reform in resurfaced clip​

Jonathan Gullis insisted there was “not a cat’s chance in hell” of him joining Reform UK, in a newly resurfaced clip following his defection to Nigel Farage’s party.

The ex-Tory party deputy chairman, who represented Stoke-on-Trent North until 2024, confirmed on Monday (1 December) that he would be leaving a Conservative party he believes has “lost touch with the people it was meant to serve”.

Appearing on BBC Politics Live on 13 March, 2024, the former Tory MP reacted to Lee Anderson’s “knee-jerk” defection, and swore he would never do the same.

“It takes courage and conviction to sometimes stay within something like a political party and fight for what you believe in,” claimed Gullis.

 

[35B]

Always? Really? In Italy 1921 onwards? Marxists like Gramsci made it clear at that time. Benito's lot had the tactic of dragging the Socialist Party on to a terrain of compromise... does that sound familiar?

Really. It's an ill-defined term, used widely as a term of abuse but which has very limited analytical value.

 

[Lewisham2221]

“It takes courage and conviction to sometimes stay within something like a political party and fight for what you believe in,” claimed Gullis.

How good of Mr Gutless to confirm that he lacks both courage and conviction