Reform UK discussion

[DarloRich]

I really hope this is a sign that Starmer is going to start directing as much scrutiny at Farage as he possibly can, rather than meekly letting him control discourse and sow division. Farage is as deserving of the term "snowflake" as any of the people he labels as such - as far as the analogy is concerned, he'd probably melt in an industrial freezer.

Good to see Farage a bit rattled. More please.

 

[alex397]

Good to see Farage a bit rattled. More please.

Given that he is a very experienced politician and media figure, I’m surprised to see him getting rattled so easily. Let’s hope he gets questioned a bit more, I feel he has had it too easy for too long.

 

[ainsworth74]

Given that he is a very experienced politician and media figure, I’m surprised to see him getting rattled so easily. Let’s hope he gets questioned a bit more, I feel he has had it too easy for too long.

The reason for the first part of your post (him being easily rattled) is explained by the second part of your post (having it too easy)

 

[DarloRich]

Given that he is a very experienced politician and media figure, I’m surprised to see him getting rattled so easily.

He, like all of these shysters, has a skin thinner than an egg. He is a massive snowflake. It is how you get at them & it is why he wont do proper interviews because he gets tetchy when put under pressure and the interviewer wont, unlike GB news, just lap up his nonsense.

 

[Bald Rick]

Given that he is a very experienced politician and media figure, I’m surprised to see him getting rattled so easily. Let’s hope he gets questioned a bit more, I feel he has had it too easy for too long.

He gets rattled all the time. But somehow it doesn‘t stick. I think that‘s changing now.

 

[Horizon22]

He gets rattled all the time. But somehow it doesn‘t stick. I think that‘s changing now.

Probably as Reform politicians are getting some actual power (at county and district level) and are finding things not as simple as they made it out to be. And that many opposition politicians were correct (that they are skint and most costs are statutory for example adult social care, emergency housing etc.)

Also poll after poll puts them ahead and people are looking for some actual policies and asking more questions of what a "Reform government" might actually do. Also Farage has a few financial allegations with regards to his housing circumstances to deal with, even if I doubt they'll escalate very far.

 

[styles]

Given that he is a very experienced politician and media figure, I’m surprised to see him getting rattled so easily. Let’s hope he gets questioned a bit more, I feel he has had it too easy for too long.

I think Farage has always been easily rattled actually. There's videos going back many years where he objects to being asked certain questions.

Fact is though, his supporters don't care. The targeted advertising and social media will mean his supporters probably won't be shown the negative image, and even if they are shown it, he often snipes back and blames the media, much like Trump, and his supporters buy it.

Starmer needs to be almost relentless in exposing the hypocrisy or nonsense in his opposition while also loudly blowing the Labour trumpet. I doubt it'll happen, but we never know.

 

[Bald Rick]

Fact is though, his supporters don't care. The targeted advertising and social media will mean his supporters probably won't be shown the negative image, and even if they are shown it, he often snipes back and blames the media, much like Trump, and his supporters buy it.

Fair to say his hardcore supporters don’t care. But Reform has recently attracted many people who arent that politically aware, but will start to see some of this and perhaps / hopefully see the:for what they are, ie all mouth (and shouty mouth at that) and not a stitch in the trouser department.

This week my social feeds have been full of videos of both his and Tice’s ‘embarrassing’ performances recently; accepting that socials algorithms will be inclined to send me them it does suggest that they are getting some adverse publicity. Perhaps the BBC policy of giving them airtime is having an effect…

 

[styles]

Fair to say his hardcore supporters don’t care. But Reform has recently attracted many people who arent that politically aware, but will start to see some of this and perhaps / hopefully see the:for what they are, ie all mouth (and shouty mouth at that) and not a stitch in the trouser department.

This week my social feeds have been full of videos of both his and Tice’s ‘embarrassing’ performances recently; accepting that socials algorithms will be inclined to send me them it does suggest that they are getting some adverse publicity. Perhaps the BBC policy of giving them airtime is having an effect…

Fair enough, maybe we'll have to wait and see.

I suspect you've been shown such videos because they align with your views though.

I have a dummy Facebook account which I use because a few community things are only shared on Facebook. When I log in to that account I get loads of far right stuff because that's what I've engaged with on that account. On my real account I don't see any of this.

 

[jon0844]

The problem is that the more you expose Tice, Farage and others as being charlatans, the more the 'base' rallies round and sees it as proof of those who call them out as being 'enemies of the people'.

It's how the cult of MAGA started and they're trying the same here. It doesn't seem quite as easy, but it still needs to be kept in check. The move to having more and more merchandise and asking for donations is all part of the grift, but as more people wear Make Britain Great Again hats we can see the start of a movement that won't care in the slightest about what the leaders do - as long as they keep promising to send foreigners home and keep the nation white.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2025 ==

I suspect you've been shown such videos because they align with your views though.

On sites like Facebook, you'll get pushed material that your friends have liked or shared. The algorithm assumes you'll have similar interests.

It's not simply like advertising where you'll be targeted based on what you've looked or searched for, and you can also pay to have content boosted to certain audiences (remember when Facebook made it possible to target users that it profiled as depressed and at risk of suicide?).

Ragebait also makes people money, which is why you still get polls that are there purely to enrage people (This person gets £xx from the state while you can't afford to heat your home.. vote here/sign this petition). While most people scroll on, some end up falling down the rabbit hole and before they know it they're following links to dodgy sites that will invariably harvest personal data through various surveys/petitions and ask for donations - often on a regular monthly basis.

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect you've been shown such videos because they align with your views though.

Ah but do they

(But yes, I acknowledge the principle).

 

[Cloud Strife]

Probably as Reform politicians are getting some actual power (at county and district level) and are finding things not as simple as they made it out to be. And that many opposition politicians were correct (that they are skint and most costs are statutory for example adult social care, emergency housing etc.)

It's almost a consistent theme in Europe so far that when these type of parties gain power, they almost never deliver any meaningful change. It's always a lot of stupidity (changing the official name of València to Valéncia for example) to cover up looting of government money, nothing more. Or they simply become part of the system that they claimed to oppose, which is exactly what is happening to the True Finns party right now. They have seven ministers out of 19, but they were decimated in the local elections there recently, and it's very unlikely that they'll be part of the next government.

Starmer needs to be almost relentless in exposing the hypocrisy or nonsense in his opposition while also loudly blowing the Labour trumpet. I doubt it'll happen, but we never know.

This is generally one of the big issues in European politics: the centre (both left and right) are really not very good at playing modern politics. The far right is *very* good at constantly saying things and churning out non-stop content, whereas the traditional parties of the centre left/right are increasingly lost in such an environment. It's not enough to simply govern, they need to have attack dogs who can be used to fluster and flummox people like Farage.

For instance, if I were Starmer, I would find the most ruthless, sharp and quick tongued Labour MP and make them the official government spokesperson. They would have the specific mandate to go up against Farage in public: gatecrashing his rallies, opposing him on TV debates, whatever. People want to know that the government is fighting for them, and Reform certainly don't have political talent in depth who can go up against such a person.

 

[Yew]

I think this is what could sink them and prevent them getting in. The sheer strength of feeling against them, and the willingness for left-wing remainers to vote for the Tories in order to keep them out (assuming I'm not unusual in that respect).

My worry would be that that would buy us an election, meanwhile the same managed decline that causes the underlying issues that fuel Reform will continue.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

For instance, if I were Starmer, I would find the most ruthless, sharp and quick tongued Labour MP and make them the official government spokesperson. They would have the specific mandate to go up against Farage in public: gatecrashing his rallies, opposing him on TV debates, whatever. People want to know that the government is fighting for them, and Reform certainly don't have political talent in depth who can go up against such a person.

Unfortunately, I don't think Dennis Skinner is still in politics.

 

[jon0844]

The right are very good at social media, and have the ability to get a LOT of people behind the latest talking point and bombard all channels with content.

Take the recent 'they're eating the swans' nonsense. When that came out, it was backed with a range of AI generated memes, a video clip from a TV show some 10-12 years ago, and then a clip of someone carrying a swan over a bridge - which quickly spread as evidence that migrants were just picking up swans to eat them (it was a clip of someone saving a swan from a busy road to return it to a river/lake or whatever).

All of this was debunked within a matter of days, but not before it had gone absolutely crazy viral and even got the attention of the likes of Elon who then ensures that almost every X user gets to see it (I am always getting notifications from him, even though I don't follow him).

The other parties simply can't compete with things like this. It's organised. They come up with a talking point and make sure they have the content in place, and the necessary means to share with all the right influencers, bats**t conspiracy theorists, their bot network and more.

It all helps them to promote themselves as the 'silent majority' and make people think most people are backing Reform, which then makes other people who might be a little more open minded think it's actually okay to share the same views.

The crazy racist that was ignored in the pub is now able to gain followers online and feel relevant for once. They're part of something big and it's okay to be racist and shout it from the rooftops (or a statue in Trafalgar Square or something).

 

[Class73Electro]

Interesting comment I saw today...

So, news article about all the Tories defecting to Reform... (So Reform must effectively just be the New Conservatives?!).

But anyway the comment in question was:

they are all, jumping and running, because they, have heard that another party, will win the next election, then do you really, want them on your team. Are they really committed, to the fight. Or just going for the glory.

MSN

Which is an interesting take - certainly a very valid point! Are you truly a believer in your values (whatever side they may be), or just staying in a metaphorical "top of the pops"?

 

[3141]

Probably as Reform politicians are getting some actual power (at county and district level) and are finding things not as simple as they made it out to be. And that many opposition politicians were correct (that they are skint and most costs are statutory for example adult social care, emergency housing etc.)

I think I've said previously that many people seem to think there is some sort of magic that can solve all the problems - as they happen to see them. Lower taxes, better services, both combined - vote for X. The Labour Party, which I think many people voted for in 2024 because they believed it could pull off such a trick and would be instantaneously better than the Conservatives, is now having to face some hard realities and difficult choices. Thus those hoping for miracles switch their support to Reform. In some ways having Reform running some councils will demonstrate that the answers aren't easy and they don't know what they are. Possibly there's enough time between now and 2029 for the facts to begin to sink in and support for Reform will decline.

 

[Monarch010]

In my opinion the Conservative party is no longer a credible political entity. Their MPs will eventually defect to Reform or pack it in.
That leaves their moderate voters with the choice of Reform or something representing the centre right.
Labour under Starmer are not interested in a centre left position, so they could potentially replace the Tories for the soft right vote.
That leaves the space to the left of Labour.
The Lib Dems under Davey have faired well are are clearly a soft left alternative.
Corbyn? Well, we'll have to see.
The Greens? Yes, they could well be a good bet for a progressive left wing offering.
I reckon that the future risk is an election resulting in a stalemate, just look at the mess in France at the moment.

 

[Horizon22]

I think I've said previously that many people seem to think there is some sort of magic that can solve all the problems - as they happen to see them.

In some ways having Reform running some councils will demonstrate that the answers aren't easy and they don't know what they are. Possibly there's enough time between now and 2029 for the facts to begin to sink in and support for Reform will decline.

Already happening in Kent after (surprise suprise) the 'magical' savings could not be found:

Reform UK set to hike council tax in Kent by 5% - despite pledge to cut costs

Kent County Council’s Department of Local Government Efficiency (Dolge) has identified £40m of potential savings - but council tax looks likely to go up next year

www.independent.co.uk

A Reform UK-run council is reportedly set to raise council tax rates next year, despite cost-cutting measures inspired by those introduced by Elon Musk in the United States.

Nigel Farage had vowed to save “a lot of money” after his party won control of Kent County Council at the local elections in May this year.

Two months later, in July, the council introduced a Department of Local Government Efficiency (Dolge), modelled on Musk’s DOGE in the US, which council leader Linden Kemkaran claimed had identified £40m of potential savings.

A report to council members said the savings would ensure that the council was able to operate within its budget while continuing to “provide the services that residents value most and those required to be delivered by law”.

However, the authority’s new adult social care chief Diane Morton has this week hinted at a rise in residents’ council tax bills as she warned that services in the county were “down to the bare bones”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2025 ==

I reckon that the future risk is an election resulting in a stalemate, just look at the mess in France at the moment.

FPTP generally makes this unlikely but if the 5 main English parties and SNP target their resources properly on constituencies they can win, it may happen.

 

[Yew]

Indeed, 15 years of austerity means that essentially all of the "quick wins" have been done at Councils. Real improvements now either require investment, or a type of visionary thinking that we're unlikely to see in the ranks of Reform.

 

[sor]

I gather that the other part of this is down to the Tories, specifically. Councils were encouraged to build up investments in the hopes that the returns could supplement the ever declining annual taxpayer funding. The Tories also gutted the audit commission which meant that sufficient oversight was not being provided. We then ended up with councils owning things they probably shouldn't, be it an energy firm operating in the open market or buying up retail property at a time when retail was in decline.

So now councils have very little room to do anything that isn't an outright legal requirement (ie anything that isn't social care). So in that way it is perhaps poignant that they claimed to emulate the US "DOGE" and have essentially ended up in the same position

 

[Harpo]

So in that way it is perhaps poignant that they claimed to emulate the US "DOGE" and have essentially ended up in the same position

Suggesting Reform candidates were hopelessly unaware of the state of local authority finances, something anyone close to the news in recent years would have been well aware of.

Farage would have known, of course, but we’re talking about Farage.

 

[Horizon22]

I gather that the other part of this is down to the Tories, specifically. Councils were encouraged to build up investments in the hopes that the returns could supplement the ever declining annual taxpayer funding. The Tories also gutted the audit commission which meant that sufficient oversight was not being provided. We then ended up with councils owning things they probably shouldn't, be it an energy firm operating in the open market or buying up retail property at a time when retail was in decline.

Partly this, but also the massive increase in costs for adult social care, homelessness, SEND that are all statutory costs that must be borne by local councils but have had nowhere near the income to support it.

Hence taxes going up by the maximum, fees being charged and cuts being made. Some councils are of course better than others in this regard, some are in absolutely dire straits (e.g. Woking, Thurrock after bad investments). Some of these are being reorganised so it will be interesting to see how the debt gets handled. Some councils have pretty poor contracts too and awful medium-term planning, using short-term costly contractors to deliver some services.

Of course this is all deeply unpopular, because most people don’t see the outcomes of homelessness support or adult social care above what is expected anyway, so people wonder why there are so many potholes, and you can’t get appointments and the bin collections are changing etc when taxes keep going up. This is simplified but it’s certainly a major part of it.

Reform were able to tap into this - to some extent - and are now finding out that it is much easier to say what is wrong than it is to fix what is wrong without the resources to do so.

 

[Harpo]

Reform were able to tap into this - to some extent - and are now finding out that it is much easier to say what is wrong than it is to fix what is wrong without the resources to do so.

Or to find a small irritant and amplify and re-amplify it into a major conflagration that makes folk believe it’s a huge issue. The Farage playbook.

 

[DarloRich]

Suggesting Reform candidates were hopelessly unaware of the state of local authority finances, something anyone close to the news in recent years would have been well aware of.

Farage would have known, of course, but we’re talking about Farage.

they and thier supporters don't care about accuracy or truth. It FEELS like councils waste money and that is all that matters.

I bet you could find 50/100k in savings at many councils buy cutting down on pens or notebooks or tea bags and to a normal person that sounds like a lot but in the context of the actual budget of a local authority it is tiny and almost worthless. There simply aren't vast sums to be found without a systemic change to what councils are expected to deliver.

 

[Gloster]

I suspect that the next move will be to complain that the government is targeting them and preventing them from carrying out all the marvellous ideas that they have to save money by insisting on a load of stupid rules. The subtext is that those rules protect other people, particularly those who have the most difficulty protecting themselves, but who aren‘t you. It also adds to the underlying idea of grievance against somebody…anybody else that lies at the heart of Reform‘s appeal.

 

[nr758123]

Councils were encouraged to build up investments in the hopes that the returns could supplement the ever declining annual taxpayer funding.

We then ended up with councils owning things they probably shouldn't, be it an energy firm operating in the open market or buying up retail property at a time when retail was in decline.

And as inevitably as night follows day, there would be some who over-reached themselves and got into unmanageable debt through bad (mainly property) investments. A few years ago, I was invited to apply for the role of property manager in a local council somewhere in the North of England who shall remain nameless. it was made clear that the successful candidate would be expected to invest large sums of money in property acquisitions over a short timescale. I decided not to apply. Fortunately for that local authority they continued to lack the capacity to indulge in property investment, so they weren't caught out when the property investment market took a decisive turn in the wrong direction.

The Tories also gutted the audit commission which meant that sufficient oversight was not being provided.

The theory was that the big four (or is it five?) accounting firms would build up expertise and develop a competitive market in local government sector auditing. It didn't work out that way, and resulted in a severe shortage of suitably qualified auditors. Even some quite large local authorities ended up with accounts not being audited on time because of the shortage of audit capacity.

All of which takes us some way away from discussion of Reform UK running local councils, other than to illustrate some of the systemic problems in the local government sector which will continue to exist regardless of who has political control.

 

[ainsworth74]

I bet you could find 50/100k in savings at many councils buy cutting down on pens or notebooks or tea bags and to a normal person that sounds like a lot but in the context of the actual budget of a local authority it is tiny and almost worthless. There simply aren't vast sums to be found without a systemic change to what councils are expected to deliver.

And those are the sorts of things that if you do cut them have all sorts of intangible but real consequences in terms of staff morale which then feed into the quality of work being done and staff productivity. Which can end up costing you far more in the long run than the £100k saved by making people buy their own notebooks, tea bags and pens.

 

[35B]

And those are the sorts of things that if you do cut them have all sorts of intangible but real consequences in terms of staff morale which then feed into the quality of work being done and staff productivity. Which can end up costing you far more in the long run than the £100k saved by making people buy their own notebooks, tea bags and pens.

Quite. And it only sounds a lot because a false comparison is being made between normal household budgets and large organisations.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite. And it only sounds a lot because a false comparison is being made between normal household budgets and large organisations.

Yep Kent's budget is is apparently, excluding Schools, is over £2.6bn. At that point £100k struggles to qualify as even a rounding error seeing as it's something like 0.004% of the budget! But, as you say, most people are thinking in terms of their own household budget or similar tangible things in which case £100k on pens, notebooks and tea bags sounds like a lot of money.

 

[DarloRich]

Yep Kent's budget is is apparently, excluding Schools, is over £2.6bn. At that point £100k struggles to qualify as even a rounding error seeing as it's something like 0.004% of the budget! But, as you say, most people are thinking in terms of their own household budget or similar tangible things in which case £100k on pens, notebooks and tea bags sounds like a lot of money.

but it might fund a nice increase in councillors expenses as a reward for saving money