Reform UK discussion

[Harpo]

Interesting - I don't know Birmingham that well

A grubby place that pretends it’s still the ‘second city’. It might just scrape fourth behind Manchester and Leeds.

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't Birmingham now down to statutory services only anyway?

This is of course the problem Reform councils are going to be running into. After 14 years of austerity cuts to local council budgets most of them are down to doing their statutory (i.e. legally required such as rubbish collection, social care, highway maintenance, etc) requirements with only a few non-statutory functions remaining (and in some places not even those). It's hard to find much to cut from a council budget when the vast majority of their spending is going on things they legal have to do.

Reality is that there isn't much fat left to trim because councils have been trimming their services for years. I'm sure they'll manage to crow about saving £20k here or £50k there but when most councils budgets are measured in the hundreds of millions (and some of the largest it can be a few billion) and most of that is committed spending that they have to spend?

Councils may well have become profligate in their spending in the mid-00s but after fourteen years of cuts most are barely clinging on as it is. If there was fat left to trim, they'd have trimmed.

 

[SuspectUsual]

After 14 years of austerity cuts to local council budgets most of them are down to doing their statutory (i.e. legally required such as rubbish collection, social care, highway maintenance, etc) requirements

And there is Farage’s excuse

Couldn’t save the multi millions we promised, but not our fault

And flags

And diversity training

 

[Lewisham2221]

and even worse, those people who fly a Pride, Palestine or even Ukraine flag on their property.

Non-approved flags! Traitors! Lock 'em up!



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It sounds like Birmingham urgently needs an anti-Reform campaign right now to get the complacent out to vote in May.

As for flag-hanging, I was quite shocked to see a particularly gratuitous display in a street in quite a liberal area not far from where I live. Lots of students, lots of younger people, quite ethnically diverse, close to the centre.
There's a pub on the street and I noted it was decked with Pride flags. Whether that was a deliberate response to the other display or not, I don't know. Or perhaps the reverse was true: the pub put up the Pride flags first, then some right-winger on the same street got offended, and countered by joining the Yaxley-Lennon campaign.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2025 ==

I think the whole flag situation is something that's been bubbling away for years and then been allowed to boil over, when it could've been dealt with ages ago. Obviously at some point, a well meaning, left leaning, person in a position of authority has got offended on behalf of someone else (this is something that I think doesn't help the left, but that's a different topic) and demanded that someone takes a flag down or decided to no longer fly a flag from a public building or something along those lines. That's given those who are more right leaning something to latch on to - "these days you can't even fly an English flag in England" etc etc. Authorities could've put that to bed, with clear statements and by proudly and prominently flying the flag. It could've been done in a completely inoffensive way, and would've shut the "can't fly a flag" rhetoric right down.

I know that many public buildings do fly the flag, but in my experience it's often rather out of sight - on a flagpole right up on the roof, almost out of view in normal circumstances - whereas in other countries I've seen flags displayed more prominently from ground mounted poles or poles mounted just above entrances etc, where they're much more visible.

 

[nw1]

I think the whole flag situation is something that's been bubbling away for years and then been allowed to boil over, when it could've been dealt with ages ago. Obviously at some point, a well meaning, left leaning, person in a position of authority has got offended on behalf of someone else (this is something that I think doesn't help the left, but that's a different topic) and demanded that someone takes a flag down or decided to no longer fly a flag from a public building or something along those lines. That's given those who are more right leaning something to latch on to - "these days you can't even fly an English flag in England" etc etc. Authorities could've put that to bed, with clear statements and by proudly and prominently flying the flag. It could've been done in a completely inoffensive way, and would've shut the "can't fly a flag" rhetoric right down.

I know that many public buildings do fly the flag, but in my experience it's often rather out of sight - on a flagpole right up on the roof, almost out of view in normal circumstances - whereas in other countries I've seen flags displayed more prominently from ground mounted poles or poles mounted just above entrances etc, where they're much more visible.

I don't have a problem with flying the Union Jack as such - my local (not right wing) council does it prominently in the entrances to a park, and then there are jubilees, royal weddings, coronations etc which feature harmless flag-flying - but I do have a problem with this current campaign because of its associations with "Tommy Robinson" and intolerance towards migrants. And I certainly have a problem with authoritarian parties like Reform banning other flags on council buildings, such as the Pride flag or the Palestine or Ukraine flags.

 

[35B]

I don't have a problem with flying the Union Jack as such - my local (not right wing) council does it prominently in the entrances to a park, and then there are jubilees, royal weddings, coronations etc which feature harmless flag-flying - but I do have a problem with this current campaign because of its associations with "Tommy Robinson" and intolerance towards migrants. And I certainly have a problem with authoritarian parties like Reform banning other flags on council buildings, such as the Pride flag or the Palestine or Ukraine flags.

I think the more interesting aspect is how the unwillingness of some councils to take down other flags has left an opening for these attempts to assert control.

 

[TravelDream]

I tried the same figures in another one and got a hung parliament, 25 seats short. And that's using figures two points higher than the 28 I had earlier.

I repeat, a party forming a majority on 28% of the vote is unlikely.

With all due respect, you were talking about 30% and a majority as being ''Not impossible, but still unlikely.''.
I am saying that a result with a Reform majority when Reform are at 30, Labour 22, Con 18, LD 14 etc. as current polls suggest is actually likely. Of course universal swings are a blunt instrument, but its the best we have at the moment.

I used Electoral Calculus and you can see the workings on how it gets to a Reform 66 majority on their site - https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk

Which site did you use which shows Reform short?

 

[KevinBrum12]

Interesting - I don't know Birmingham that well - basically only the city centre plus what I see from the railway or from the motorways - but I get the impression that the Bournville / Northfield rail corridor would be the kind of "liberal commuter" place where ex-students might want to settle. Likewise the Solihull area and that rail corridor too, though I understand Solihull is not Birmingham proper.

Similarly I'd perceive the areas immediately round the city centre as ethnically diverse and thus presumably anti-Reform.

I may be completely wrong about my understanding of Birmingham demographics, though - as I said I've only seen many of these places from the railway or the motorways. And presumably there are large parts of Birmingham nowhere near any railways or motorways which I'd have simply never have seen.

Birmingham is so diverse you can get different perspectives just by going 3 miles out of the City Centre in different directions. Go South East on the number 6 bus towards Solihull, you'll head into the "Balti Triangle" and the home to one Citizen Khan (the real life comedian and broadcaster Adil Ray). Almost certainly the wards where the pro Palestine/Gaza candidates would stand a good chance and indeed some Labour councillors have been parachuted out of there into what the NEC (who have selected all of Birmingham's Council candidates as opposed to the local CLP's) consider safe seats.

But go South on the 50 bus to Moseley and Kings Heath...you come to an area which has traditionally been a Labour and Lib Dem stronghold where a lot of professionals who've decided to stay in Birmingham have settled. As is so if you go 3 miles west and you arrive in Edgbaston or Harborne...much like Hampstead in London and as green but nearer the City Core. Conservative and was represented until the New Labour era by Dame Jill Knight.

3 miles North and you are in Aston which has a large BAME population and this is the area you see from Spaghetti Junction of the M6 as you come in. 3 miles North Weest you are in Lozells and Handsworth of 1985 riots fame, again an area with a hgh BAME population, but also Handsworth Wood which is as leafy and desirable as Moseley or Edgbaston.

So Birmingham is a very diverse place and don't be fooled by the concrete jungle you see from the M6 or WCML or the reports from the London media. But it is still not as cool as Manchester and the local politicians on all sides have settled down to being more second rate than second city.

 

[DarloRich]

This is of course the problem Reform councils are going to be running into. After 14 years of austerity cuts to local council budgets most of them are down to doing their statutory (i.e. legally required such as rubbish collection, social care, highway maintenance, etc) requirements with only a few non-statutory functions remaining (and in some places not even those). It's hard to find much to cut from a council budget when the vast majority of their spending is going on things they legal have to do.

Reality is that there isn't much fat left to trim because councils have been trimming their services for years. I'm sure they'll manage to crow about saving £20k here or £50k there but when most councils budgets are measured in the hundreds of millions (and some of the largest it can be a few billion) and most of that is committed spending that they have to spend?

Councils may well have become profligate in their spending in the mid-00s but after fourteen years of cuts most are barely clinging on as it is. If there was fat left to trim, they'd have trimmed.

whilst you are, of course, correct I don't think facts really matter to Reformers. That £50k sounds like a lot when you are ignorant of council responsibilities and spending.

 

[ainsworth74]

whilst you are, of course, correct I don't think facts really matter to Reformers. That £50k sounds like a lot when you are ignorant of council responsibilities and spending.

Absolutely, and in a functioning media ecosystem you'd expect the media would be asking the questions "You've saved £50k but the Council is looking at a deficit of £Xm so how will you close that gap further?" etc etc. But instead it'll get the usual suspects all excited and then amplified by right wingers on Twitter as a proof of how much waste Reform are able to get rid of now that the wokery has ended.

Meanwhile council services will continue to collapse.

 

[DarloRich]

Absolutely, and in a functioning media ecosystem you'd expect the media would be asking the questions "You've saved £50k but the Council is looking at a deficit of £Xm so how will you close that gap further?" etc etc. But instead it'll get the usual suspects all excited and then amplified by right wingers on Twitter as a proof of how much waste Reform are able to get rid of now that the wokery has ended.

Meanwhile council services will continue to collapse.

is the correct answer!

Also: Flags

 

[Lewisham2221]

whilst you are, of course, correct I don't think facts really matter to Reformers. That £50k sounds like a lot when you are ignorant of council responsibilities and spending.

Which is another area where councils and government are out of touch with a large portion of the electorate. As you say, £50k is a comparative drop in the ocean in government spending terms - but for many, that's (more than) their annual household income. It's easy to see how a couple working hard to bring home £50k pa to keep support their family could get wound up by a council "wasting" that same amount. It's definitely an area where the comms/optics could be improved.

Edit: Just to clarify, I can also see that Reform aren't the solution to any of these problems.

 

[35B]

whilst you are, of course, correct I don't think facts really matter to Reformers. That £50k sounds like a lot when you are ignorant of council responsibilities and spending.

That is a key point in understanding the politics of budgets. It is incredibly easy for politicians to generate soundbites about large numbers, by anchoring them to what seems a lot for a household and, where that's a service provided by a company, to leave the suggestion that this revenue figure is actually all profit. This tends to miss the mark in terms of what it actually costs to do many of these jobs, and how much of that is costs for things like wages.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2025 ==

Which is another area where councils and government are out of touch with a large portion of the electorate. As you say, £50k is a comparative drop in the ocean in government spending terms - but for many, that's (more than) their annual household income. It's easy to see how a couple working hard to bring home £50k pa to keep support their family could get wound up by a council "wasting" that same amount. It's definitely an area where the comms/optics could be improved.

Edit: Just to clarify, I can also see that Reform aren't the solution to any of these problems.

Those optics will never improve, because the advantages of playing with envy and poor understanding of figures far outweigh the political costs.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Those optics will never improve, because the advantages of playing with envy and poor understanding of figures far outweigh the political costs.

And thus the downward spiral into emotional politics...

 

[DarloRich]

As you say, £50k is a comparative drop in the ocean in government spending terms - but for many, that's (more than) their annual household income. It's easy to see how a couple working hard to bring home £50k pa to keep support their family could get wound up by a council "wasting" that same amount. It's definitely an area where the comms/optics could be improved.

That is a key point in understanding the politics of budgets. It is incredibly easy for politicians to generate soundbites about large numbers, by anchoring them to what seems a lot for a household

Agreed x 2!

 

[brad465]

Painting roundabouts is much easier I think to attack, as there are plenty of problems that arise unrelated to politics. Whoever painted it is endangering themselves by standing in the middle of the road not paying attention to traffic (which still exists even if the middle of the night), then the markings distract drivers, increasing the chance of an accident. Then there is the cleaning costs the council have to spend (taxpayer's money), also diverting resources away from other services.

 

[DarloRich]

Painting roundabouts is much easier I think to attack, as there are plenty of problems that arise unrelated to politics.

Why, as a super INGERLUND patriot, would you paint the flag of our country on the road for people to drive over? it seems disrespectful to me.

I don't get the flag thing. We aren't Americans. We don't need to se ethe flag every second of the day to remind us of where we come from!

 

[Railwaycat]

I don't get the flag thing. We aren't Americans. We don't need to se ethe flag every second of the day to remind us of where we come from!

That's a good one - they're almost all immigrants anyway, how many flags would they be flying to represent where their ancestors came from!

 

[SuspectUsual]

Why, as a super INGERLUND patriot, would you paint the flag of our country on the road for people to drive over? it seems disrespectful to me.

Are flag, surely?

 

[Tester]

Are flag, surely?

I would of thought so

 

[DarloRich]

Are flag, surely?

rumbled as a radical woke Marxist non patriotic traitor leftist!

 

[Krokodil]

I don't get the flag thing. We aren't Americans. We don't need to se ethe flag every second of the day to remind us of where we come from!

Flying some combination of the Union Flag, national flag (England/Scotland/Wales/NI) and county flag on or outside public buildings should be considered perfectly normal. It would help reclaim the St George's Cross from the racists (though now would not be the time to announce such a change, lest they crow that they've won). Having one on every lamp post should be reserved for special locations like The Mall or the Champs Élysées (both places where it does look quite good). Having small polyester rags cable-tied to lamp posts just looks dreadful.

A few years ago I passed through Republika Srpska (which is the part of Bosnia which was under Serb control at the conclusion of the war) and there were flagpoles at every road junction out in the country, carrying the Serb-derived flag used by the entity. It happens to be an upside-down version of the Russian flag which may be why it drew my attention on my visit in 2022. Such displays wouldn't be normal in most countries. These are people who still believe that the genocide was the right thing to do.

In Riga, by contrast, almost every Latvian flag flying from a building was on a pair of poles, the other flying a Ukrainian flag. This is an example of the good that flags can do. I remember seeing the Canadian Embassy in Bucharest hanging a Ukrainian flag fron its side window, in the direction of the Russian Embassy next door. Conwy was bedecked in yellow & blue back in 2022 and looked fantastic, it's not just a display of solidarity, colour brightens the place up too.

I do also like how places like my local promenade and Horse Guards Road have all sorts of international flags on display.

 

[Cloud Strife]

A minority would be ungovernable on those numbers.

A Plaid Labour coalition perhaps with the Lib Dems and Greens is most likely whether Labour get 14% like in this poll or 30%.

Just to point out here: there is plenty of precedent here with the 2007-2011 SNP government in Scotland. They had 47 seats out of 129, and even after the confidence/supply agreement with the Greens, they still only had 49 seats out of 129. Yet that government was very successful for Scotland, with the SNP working well with other parties to secure support for the budget and their bills, often on a case by case basis.

So, a minority wouldn't be ungovernable. Labour would likely give Plaid confidence/supply, but otherwise they'd let them get on with actually governing.

 

[philosopher]

Birmingham is so diverse you can get different perspectives just by going 3 miles out of the City Centre in different directions. Go South East on the number 6 bus towards Solihull, you'll head into the "Balti Triangle" and the home to one Citizen Khan (the real life comedian and broadcaster Adil Ray). Almost certainly the wards where the pro Palestine/Gaza candidates would stand a good chance and indeed some Labour councillors have been parachuted out of there into what the NEC (who have selected all of Birmingham's Council candidates as opposed to the local CLP's) consider safe seats.

But go South on the 50 bus to Moseley and Kings Heath...you come to an area which has traditionally been a Labour and Lib Dem stronghold where a lot of professionals who've decided to stay in Birmingham have settled. As is so if you go 3 miles west and you arrive in Edgbaston or Harborne...much like Hampstead in London and as green but nearer the City Core. Conservative and was represented until the New Labour era by Dame Jill Knight.

3 miles North and you are in Aston which has a large BAME population and this is the area you see from Spaghetti Junction of the M6 as you come in. 3 miles North Weest you are in Lozells and Handsworth of 1985 riots fame, again an area with a hgh BAME population, but also Handsworth Wood which is as leafy and desirable as Moseley or Edgbaston.

So Birmingham is a very diverse place and don't be fooled by the concrete jungle you see from the M6 or WCML or the reports from the London media. But it is still not as cool as Manchester and the local politicians on all sides have settled down to being more second rate than second city.

In the case of Birmingham, Labour I reckon will do very badly in the next council election due to the ongoing bin strike. What I think will happen is Reform will become the largest party, but will not form a majority. They may be able to form a coalition with the Tories though. If Your Party have formed by then, I suspect they will end being the second largest party as they will pick up most of the wards with a high BAME population, where Your Party will exploit the Gaza war for their benefit. Labour and Lib Dems will may end up with just a few seats mostly in the south of the city.

Such a result would be very polarising one, with the populist right and populist left well represented but the more moderate parties squeezed out. Such a result however could be a precedent for the rest of the UK, given the way politics in the UK is going.

 

[styles]

I think the more interesting aspect is how the unwillingness of some councils to take down other flags has left an opening for these attempts to assert control.

Costs money and effort to take down flags, money being something councils don't have much of.

They have to repaint mini roundabouts because the road marking is defined as legislation (TSRGD) and the highways authority has a statutory obligation to ensure road signs and road markings meet the legal requirements.

If the flags aren't covering road signs or obstructing the view of drivers, they have no statutory obligation to remove them.

It's no surprise to me that highway authorities don't bother spending cash taking flags down, whether they're LGBT rainbows, St George's crosses, union flags, whatever.

 

[Howardh]

It's no surprise to me that highway authorities don't bother spending cash taking flags down, whether they're LGBT rainbows, St George's crosses, union flags, whatever.

Our patriotic weather will be removing them anyway!! Chances of a flag on a lamp-post surviving autumn...??

 

[styles]

Our patriotic weather will be removing them anyway!! Chances of a flag on a lamp-post surviving autumn...??

Depends how well they've been tied on really.

There's people who live near me who have Saltires up all year round, and we get pretty harsh weather up here. Admittedly these will be better quality cotton flags with decent rope.

 

[Howardh]

Depends how well they've been tied on really.

There's people who live near me who have Saltires up all year round, and we get pretty harsh weather up here. Admittedly these will be better quality cotton flags with decent rope.

Well yes, I wouldn't expect a bit of string to cope! Round here those putting illegal ads on lamp-posts use plastic tabs which are sturdy and difficult to remove - however more difficult to apply high up! As an aside my street was plagued by builders and the like putting up such ads (but not one flag!!!), we all have our councillor's permission to remove them (she lives on our street!) and they were always at head level so no ladders involved. They have stopped appearing recently!

But cheap temo flags (bought from overseas, how patriotic!) won't last half-an-hour.

 

[Krokodil]

Our patriotic weather will be removing them anyway!! Chances of a flag on a lamp-post surviving autumn...??

I was just passing through a town in the West Midlands and a roundabout was decorated by a load of very soggy flags limply clinging to their lamp posts. Looked very cheap.

 

[styles]

I was just passing through a town in the West Midlands and a roundabout was decorated by a load of very soggy flags limply clinging to their lamp posts. Looked very cheap.

Most, if not all, of them will by polyester. Polyester is actually a pretty durable flag material and will probably survive harsh weather conditions. Expensive cotton flags would be just as limp in heavy rain, and actually more limp due to their weight.

If polyester flags have been tied up with decent knots, cable ties, or decent water-absorbing string/rope, they'll survive the elements just fine.

The main advantage to cotton flags isn't their durability - it's their appearance and feel. In fact many cotton flag owners are quite happy to continue flying their flags long after they've significantly deteriorated.

It's possible they're nylon flags, which is the worst of both worlds, but when I've searched for flags for our scout group before I've found polyester to be cheapest/come up first on Google. Even then, I wouldn't expect a nylon flag to tatter over a single British winter.

The string will be the main problem. If they've been tied up poorly (likely) and the string/rope isn't good at water-absorbing (also likely), they'll untie in strong winds.