Reform UK discussion

[SuspectUsual]

The KentOnline article about the thousands being spent on ‘illegal immigrants’ has been updated, confirming that this money was spent on children.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/n...aims-kcc-spent-thousands-on-tv-licenc-325858/



But, the damage is done. The sound-bite headline of £24,000 spent on ILLEGALS having fun is already out there, being spouted by the ignorant to their friends, families, colleagues or anyone who will listen. And people will believe it, and not look into the fact it’s money spent on the wellbeing of children.
Will Yusuf send out a tweet adding this information? Maybe apologise for the misinformation? Somehow, i’m doubtful.

So, this confirms that the Reform Party don’t care quite so much about children as they might like to portray. I guess it depends on what sort of children….

And Yusuf will have known this, or at the very least should have checked before he incited division and hatred. As I said in a previous post, these people are evil. It is all part of their plan.

And they shouldn't be "DOGE" anyway, this isn't "Government", perhaps the Bureau Investigating Local Government Efficiency would be more accurate

 

[Harpo]

over 30% of UK female prison inmates have been incarcerated for not being able to afford the fine for evading the television licence fee.

From HMG sources….

Theft from shops accounted for 21% of all female prosecutions for indictable offences,

In 2021, of those prosecuted for TV licence ………This offence accounted for 18% of all female prosecutions.

Women and the Criminal Justice System 2021

www.gov.uk

 

[JamesT]

From HMG sources….

Women and the Criminal Justice System 2021

www.gov.uk

That’s prosecutions, not the number in prison.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmjust/265/report.html

9. TV licence evasion was the most common offence for which women were convicted in 2019. 74% of those convicted for TV licence evasion were female and this offence accounted for 30% of all female convictions.

What’s not clear is how 30% of convictions translates into the proportion in prison, as many (most?) convictions don’t result in a custodial sentence. Indeed, for the pedantic no women are in prison for TV licence evasion, it’s failing to pay the fine that results in the jail time.

 

[Harpo]

That’s prosecutions, not the number in prison.

Yes. Couldn’t find a split by imprisonment.

 

[styles]

Yes. Couldn’t find a split by imprisonment.

Because it won't even exist, given:

You cannot be sent to prison for failing to pay a TV licence fee, only for failing to pay a fine in connection with a conviction for not paying the fee—and the latest available figures for England and Wales show no one was jailed for this in 2020 or 2021.

Ministry of Justice statistics for England and Wales show that during 2020 and 2021, no convictions resulted in prison sentences, meaning no women - or men - were jailed. During 2019, two or fewer people were sent to prison (the exact number is not given in the statistics to protect against personal identification), none of whom were women.

Do a disproportionate number of women end up in prison for failing to pay TV licences? – Full Fact

Conservative leadership candidate Liz Truss has raised concerns over the number imprisoned, but since 1995 twice as many men have been jailed.

fullfact.org

I'm baffled anybody could believe 30% of women in prison are there for not paying their TV Licence.

 

[ainsworth74]

But, the damage is done.

I've believed for a long time that it should be a legal requirement on the press when issuing corrections that the correction be given the same prominence as the original misleading story. You publish a story which later requires correction on the front page above the fold? The correction goes on the front page above the fold. You Tweeted the story and had all your journalists retweet it? The correction is Tweeted and all your journalists have to retweet it. It was the lead story on the 6 o'clock news with clips being put out on social media? The correction is the lead story on the 6 o'clock news and clips go out on social media.

Still wouldn't undo all the damage of misleading or inaccurate news stories but would certainly help and might also focus minds somewhat.

 

[brad465]

All kicking off at Devon Council, with two Reform UK councillors reported to the police by another councillor who was elected to Reform UK and had a branch chairman role but was dismissed from it:

Reform Devon county councillors reported to police by colleague

Councillors Neil Stevens and his brother Tony were reported by fellow Reform councillor and Ed Hill.

www.bbc.co.uk

Infighting in the Reform UK party in Devon has seen two county councillors and an election agent reported to police by a colleague over election expenses.
Neil Stevens and his brother Tony were elected for Reform in May and documents seen by the BBC allege Neil Stevens spent about £170 more than the campaign spending limit.
This was reported to police by Ed Hill, who was also elected for Reform in May and was the chairman of the Exeter branch but was removed from the post for what the party says was bringing it "into disrepute".
Neil Stevens said he misunderstood the process and his election agent Rob Sheridan said he was "confident" there were no errors. Tony Stevens declined to comment.

The Reform UK party won 18 seats in the Devon County Council elections held on 1 May - becoming the second biggest party on the council behind the Liberal Democrats.

Neil Stevens won the Alphington and Cowick seat with 1,126 votes - 72 votes ahead of the Labour candidate Yvonne Atkinson, with the Liberal Democrats a close third on 1,030 votes.

In county council elections, spending limits are set in each ward according to the number of voters, external.

In Alphington and Cowick the limit was set at £1,827.04 - however the election expenditure return papers for Stevens show he spent £1,995.72.

Hill was previously the election agent for Stevens but papers seen by the BBC show Sheridan was appointed as election agent on 3 June, a day before the election expenses forms were submitted.

Hill also alleges that a £250 podcast recording expense claimed by Tony Stevens, who won his Exwick and St Thomas seat by 22 votes, should be split equally between the brothers - further raising the expenditure of Neil Stevens.

Hill said he reported his concerns relating to Sheridan and Neil and Tony Stevens to the police and to the Electoral Commission on 1 June.

He said he had made "a clear promise to the people of Exeter" to "hold our candidates and councillors to the same high standards we expect of others".

A spokesman from the national Reform UK party told the BBC: "Ed Hill has been removed as chairman of Reform UK Exeter after bringing the party into disrepute.

"There's currently an ongoing internal investigation into the matter so we won't be commenting further."

 

[alistairlees]

I've believed for a long time that it should be a legal requirement on the press when issuing corrections that the correction be given the same prominence as the original misleading story. You publish a story which later requires correction on the front page above the fold? The correction goes on the front page above the fold. You Tweeted the story and had all your journalists retweet it? The correction is Tweeted and all your journalists have to retweet it. It was the lead story on the 6 o'clock news with clips being put out on social media? The correction is the lead story on the 6 o'clock news and clips go out on social media.

Still wouldn't undo all the damage of misleading or inaccurate news stories but would certainly help and might also focus minds somewhat.

I have long since thought exactly the same.

 

[jon0844]

The KentOnline article I posted above on post #676 about the thousands being spent on ‘illegal immigrants’ has been updated, confirming that this money was spent on children.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/n...aims-kcc-spent-thousands-on-tv-licenc-325858/



But, the damage is done. The sound-bite headline of £24,000 spent on ILLEGALS having fun is already out there, being spouted by the ignorant to their friends, families, colleagues or anyone who will listen. And people will believe it, and not look into the fact it’s money spent on the wellbeing of children.
Will Yusuf send out a tweet adding this information? Maybe apologise for the misinformation? Somehow, i’m doubtful.

So, this confirms that the Reform Party don’t care quite so much about children as they might like to portray. I guess it depends on what sort of children….

Just like Tommy Multinames, I don't believe many of them care about children. They care about what they can politicise and use to 'get one over the left' - which means getting outraged by grooming gangs who are not white, and saying nothing when the gangs are.

In the case of Tommy and some Reform candidates, they seem to always find themselves surrounded by people who have a rather checkered history themselves when it comes to the welfare of children (or women).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2025 ==

And they shouldn't be "DOGE" anyway, this isn't "Government", perhaps the Bureau Investigating Local Government Efficiency would be more accurate

But DOGE has a cool logo and Elon had a chainsaw. So why can't they copy it here even though it makes no sense in a local Government sense? I wonder if they'll be posing for photos with a chainsaw too (maybe they'll use a hedge trimmer from Argos).

These are the same idiots who keep talking about DEI too. I think they actually believe they're an extension of the GOP and doing Trump's work here, and that they'll be rewarded. That's why Nigel spends so much of this time in the USA cosying up to the Republicans.

 

[styles]

In the case of Tommy and some Reform candidates, they seem to always find themselves surrounded by people who have a rather checkered history themselves when it comes to the welfare of children (or women).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2025 ==

That must be quite the challenge for Tommy, given his criminal record for:

• Using a passport which wasn't his to bypass US immigration (who had banned him)
• Leading football hooligan fights and threatening people
• Mortgage fraud
• Common assault
• ABH against a police officer (who was in turn dealing with a domestic between Tommy and his girlfriend)
• Stalking
• Harassment
• Contempt of court
• Disobeying a dispersal order (case dropped due to paperwork invalidity)

 

[jon0844]

That must be quite the challenge for Tommy, given his criminal record for:

• Using a passport which wasn't his to bypass US immigration (who had banned him)
• Leading football hooligan fights and threatening people
• Mortgage fraud
• Common assault
• ABH against a police officer (who was in turn dealing with a domestic between Tommy and his girlfriend)
• Stalking
• Harassment
• Contempt of court
• Disobeying a dispersal order (case dropped due to paperwork invalidity)

Ah, but it's all just a witch hunt and a political attack on him. He's the victim here!

(Obviously sarcasm)

 

[aavm]

According to the latest polls, Reform are heading for a landslide. Not being clear on what they stand for, can only assume it's because everyone else is very unpopular.

Come back Boris, all is forgiven. How bad is that.

 

[The Ham]

According to the latest polls, Reform are heading for a landslide. Not being clear on what they stand for, can only assume it's because everyone else is very unpopular.

Come back Boris, all is forgiven. How bad is that.

Maybe, however, tactical voting could play a large role.

If you look at the fact that you've got basically 50:50 split when you look at Tory/Reform and Labour/Lib Dems/Green/Others that's going to make for some interesting voting.

Is it likely that Tory voters will vote to keep another party out to let Reform win? Maybe, but possibly not.

However, of the other side the supporters of one party would be more likely to vote for another party of there was a good chance of them winning.

Yes, that may not leave a single party with a majority, however again the others will be more likely to work together.

Of course, that all assumes that Reform don't make a hash of the things which they are currently running.

Of course there's also many other factors (for example the spread of those voters, voters age, etc.).

 

[class ep-09]

Maybe, however, tactical voting could play a large role.

If you look at the fact that you've got basically 50:50 split when you look at Tory/Reform and Labour/Lib Dems/Green/Others that's going to make for some interesting voting.

Is it likely that Tory voters will vote to keep another party out to let Reform win? Maybe, but possibly not.

However, of the other side the supporters of one party would be more likely to vote for another party of there was a good chance of them winning.

Yes, that may not leave a single party with a majority, however again the others will be more likely to work together.

Of course, that all assumes that Reform don't make a hash of the things which they are currently running.

Of course there's also many other factors (for example the spread of those voters, voters age, etc.).

There is also , small but still , a chance of electoral reforms towards PR then all bets are off .

 

[nw1]

This morning in the lobby of our flats I found a piece of Conservative literature with, basically, "Only the Conservatives can stop Labour" crossed out and "Only Reform UK can stop Labour" written as a graffiti-style message in its place.

Needless to say I was absolutely livid. These flats have many immigrants from many different countries so encouraging votes for a hard-right anti-immigration party seems to be blatantly offensive.

Certainly anyone who writes this kind of graffiti must be pretty militant in their views. It's a bit of a shock to find militant Reform support this close to home - neither the flats nor my neighbourhood have the stereotypical Reform demographic. It's a former Tory area now trending Lib Dem, if anything.

 

[styles]

According to the latest polls, Reform are heading for a landslide. Not being clear on what they stand for, can only assume it's because everyone else is very unpopular.

Come back Boris, all is forgiven. How bad is that.

A week is a long time in politics though. The general election is years away yet, so a lot could change.

It could well be that Labour are pushing through their less popular policies now to then hopefully give a better outlook in a few years time, for example.

I am a bit concerned about the Scottish Parliament elections in like 10 months time though. Currently the SNP are predicted to maintain a commanding lead, but Reform's performance in the polls improves by the week:

Opinion polling for the next Scottish Parliament election - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Reform getting up to 20% of the vote in some of the most respected polls, more than the Conservatives, and approaching being more than Labour.

 

[nw1]

A week is a long time in politics though. The general election is years away yet, so a lot could change.

It could well be that Labour are pushing through their less popular policies now to then hopefully give a better outlook in a few years time, for example.

I am a bit concerned about the Scottish Parliament elections in like 10 months time though. Currently the SNP are predicted to maintain a commanding lead, but Reform's performance in the polls improves by the week:

Opinion polling for the next Scottish Parliament election - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Reform getting up to 20% of the vote in some of the most respected polls, more than the Conservatives, and approaching being more than Labour.

I've said this before but it's strange to get a stereotypical Little Englander party doing so well in Scotland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've said this before but it's strange to get a stereotypical Little Englander party doing so well in Scotland.

Particularly as Scotland is overall much more of a white near-monoculture than England (and so you don't get the same conflicts and perceptions etc that lead in part to the growth of Reform). Crikey, the only place I've ever been served by a white Scotsman in a curry house was in Edinburgh!

 

[styles]

I've said this before but it's strange to get a stereotypical Little Englander party doing so well in Scotland.

As someone who lives in Scotland, and who works on polling stations, it doesn't surprise me at all.

Last by-election we had, and the general election, we had plenty of people coming in not knowing the name of the local candidate, just asking how to vote for Farage or how to vote for Reform (we can't actually advise them that specifically as we can't show bias - so we just show them or read out to them the list of candidates and their parties, in the order they appear).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==

Particularly as Scotland is overall much more of a white near-monoculture than England (and so you don't get the same conflicts and perceptions etc that lead in part to the growth of Reform). Crikey, the only place I've ever been served by a white Scotsman in a curry house was in Edinburgh!

On the flip side, it arguably draws attention to minorities who are in much smaller minorities than in say London. I've heard neds saying things like, "Oh look at that n-word!" Can't say I ever heard that living in London. I've got family who call Chinese takeaways and corner shops very.. dated.. terms.

It's more commonplace and arguably less frowned upon than in a more diverse community I'd say.

I was in a pub in Fife not long ago and a bloke referred to Sadiq Khan as an old racist term I haven't actually heard anybody else say in real life before. Nobody in the pub batted an eyelid.

 

[DarloRich]

I note the Fragain golden ticket plan for non doms has crashed within seconds. I wonder if it was simply to divert attention from the anniversary of Brexit?

Actually the policy idea/concept isn't that silly - although the figure suggested was far too low.

 

[Acfb]

As someone who lives in Scotland, and who works on polling stations, it doesn't surprise me at all.

Last by-election we had, and the general election, we had plenty of people coming in not knowing the name of the local candidate, just asking how to vote for Farage or how to vote for Reform (we can't actually advise them that specifically as we can't show bias - so we just show them or read out to them the list of candidates and their parties, in the order they appear).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==


On the flip side, it arguably draws attention to minorities who are in much smaller minorities than in say London. I've heard neds saying things like, "Oh look at that n-word!" Can't say I ever heard that living in London. I've got family who call Chinese takeaways and corner shops very.. dated.. terms.

It's more commonplace and arguably less frowned upon than in a more diverse community I'd say.

I was in a pub in Fife not long ago and a bloke referred to Sadiq Khan as an old racist term I haven't actually heard anybody else say in real life before. Nobody in the pub batted an eyelid.

Reform is still very weak in Edinburgh but they have been getting 15-25% in lots of local by elections in Fife, Lanarkshire, Glasgow, West Lothian and West Dunbartonshire for a while now.

I expect them to get about 15 MSPs at Holyrood next year. I'm interested to see what happens if they hold the balance of power at Holyrood but it's probably less likely they'll explicitly vote to make Sarwar FM now.

 

[JamesT]

I note the Fragain golden ticket plan for non doms has crashed within seconds. I wonder if it was simply to divert attention from the anniversary of Brexit?

Actually the policy idea/concept isn't that silly - although the figure suggested was far too low.

It's mostly just restoring the status-quo from before January. But with a £250k upfront fee instead of £30k annually.

 

[ainsworth74]

I've said this before but it's strange to get a stereotypical Little Englander party doing so well in Scotland.

I think because a lot of people have pigeonholed them as the "racist" party and the "English nationalist" party. And certainly, those are feature of the party and its supporters.

But I reckon that undersells the level of support they are getting (and will likely continue to get unless something changes) which boils down to: "My life has been rubbish for a long time now. Since at least 2010 but quite possibly longer. I have tried voting for Brexit, Boris, and now Labour and nothing is getting better and everything is getting worse all the time. What have I got to lose by trying to vote for Reform seeing as the main parties haven't been able to make my life better?"

That's the issue. And it's a UK wide issue which is why they are also doing better in Scotland than you might think. Plus I think there's some popular conception that Scotland is some lefty/liberal paradise where everyone is a liberal left winger which I really do not think is matched by reality. Perhaps its a bit more liberal in its political make-up than England or Wales are overall but it's not dramatically different to us.

So it's perfectly possible for the messages of Reform to do well in sections of the Scottish electorate. After all there's plenty of deprivation in Scotland which is entrenched and voting for some mixture of SNP/Labour/Green/Lib Dem/Tory hasn't fixed. Why not roll the dice one last time on Reform?

 

[nw1]

I think because a lot of people have pigeonholed them as the "racist" party and the "English nationalist" party. And certainly, those are feature of the party and its supporters.

But I reckon that undersells the level of support they are getting (and will likely continue to get unless something changes) which boils down to: "My life has been rubbish for a long time now. Since at least 2010 but quite possibly longer. I have tried voting for Brexit, Boris, and now Labour and nothing is getting better and everything is getting worse all the time. What have I got to lose by trying to vote for Reform seeing as the main parties haven't been able to make my life better?"

That's the issue. And it's a UK wide issue which is why they are also doing better in Scotland than you might think. Plus I think there's some popular conception that Scotland is some lefty/liberal paradise where everyone is a liberal left winger which I really do not think is matched by reality. Perhaps its a bit more liberal in its political make-up than England or Wales are overall but it's not dramatically different to us.

So it's perfectly possible for the messages of Reform to do well in sections of the Scottish electorate. After all there's plenty of deprivation in Scotland which is entrenched and voting for some mixture of SNP/Labour/Green/Lib Dem/Tory hasn't fixed. Why not roll the dice one last time on Reform?

On the other hand you'd think they have learnt that voting for, for example, Brexit has produced no material benefit to their lives (indeed some of us would say that Brexit has added to our difficulties) so voting for more far-out nonsense wouldn't work either.
If Brexit hasn't worked, if Boris was a disappointment, why would Reform work?

Instead why not just pick whichever is least bad out of Labour, the Tories, the Lib Dems, the SNP and the Greens? Better the devil you know, and all that.

Though talking of Boris I do wonder whether he would get the votes if he came back as Tory leader. He's got the populism without the extremeness, and I get the impression he is still loved by many of the Tory rank-and-file. In all honesty, Boris coming back right now might not be a bad thing - and I say that as someone who couldn't stand him a few years ago.

 

[ainsworth74]

On the other hand you'd think they have learnt that voting for, for example, Brexit has produced no material benefit to their lives (indeed some of us would say that Brexit has added to our difficulties) so voting for more far-out nonsense wouldn't work either.
If Brexit hasn't worked, if Boris was a disappointment, why would Reform work?

Instead why not just pick whichever is least bad out of Labour, the Tories, the Lib Dems, the SNP and the Greens? Better the devil you know, and all that.

But the devil they know has continued to make everything worse? So why on earth would they vote for the devil they know when their lives of their children have continued to get worse? And, to boot, there's no indication that Labour are even vaguely capable of doing anything about it. All Labour seem to be doing is presiding over the continuing deterioration of the country.

I agree that voting Reform is highly likely to make things even worse. But I think it's critical to understand that a key plank of their support is people who see no hope for things ever getting better and so feel like what have they possibly got left to lose at this point? Their area is already pothole riddled, they cannot get a GP appointment for love nor money, graffiti and general wear/tear is spreading in their local environment, there's only a handful of good jobs left (i.e. fairly secure that pay a decent sum) and for everyone else there's just insecure minimum wage service, retail or care work. All while cost of living continues to go up and now everyone is talking about tax rises to pay for state services which hardly work anymore anyway!

Why on earth would they continue to vote Labour or Tory in that universe?

 

[AlterEgo]

I've said this before but it's strange to get a stereotypical Little Englander party doing so well in Scotland.

They aren’t Little Englander. They’re xenophobic. A lot of it about in Scotland.

The other reason is they represent a big red reset button for people who have been failed by austerity and Britain’s declining standard of living, at least some of which is due to institutional rot.

 

[nw1]

But the devil they know has continued to make everything worse? So why on earth would they vote for the devil they know when their lives of their children have continued to get worse? And, to boot, there's no indication that Labour are even vaguely capable of doing anything about it. All Labour seem to be doing is presiding over the continuing deterioration of the country.

I agree that voting Reform is highly likely to make things even worse. But I think it's critical to understand that a key plank of their support is people who see no hope for things ever getting better and so feel like what have they possibly got left to lose at this point? Their area is already pothole riddled, they cannot get a GP appointment for love nor money, graffiti and general wear/tear is spreading in their local environment, there's only a handful of good jobs left (i.e. fairly secure that pay a decent sum) and for everyone else there's just insecure minimum wage service, retail or care work. All while cost of living continues to go up and now everyone is talking about tax rises to pay for state services which hardly work anymore anyway!

Why on earth would they continue to vote Labour or Tory in that universe?

Even still I find it hard to understand why someone would vote for a party that will only make things even worse.
I'd have expected the far left to grow in popularity, if anything.

And I fail to understand why anyone apart from the far-right would find Reform appealing.

I just don't get their supporters' way of thinking. It's not logical. Reform offer nothing to sort things out. Personally, they frighten me. They stand for the polar opposite of my own views in just about every aspect. Enough even to consider possible relocation if there was still a reasonable chance of them getting in two years down the road.

 

[WelshBluebird]

But I reckon that undersells the level of support they are getting (and will likely continue to get unless something changes) which boils down to: "My life has been rubbish for a long time now. Since at least 2010 but quite possibly longer. I have tried voting for Brexit, Boris, and now Labour and nothing is getting better and everything is getting worse all the time. What have I got to lose by trying to vote for Reform seeing as the main parties haven't been able to make my life better?"

I just don't understand how those people can't see that maybe voting Tory for 14 years and voting for Brexit has made things so bad that theres no chance any party could improve it in the year Labour have had!

 

[jon0844]

But I reckon that undersells the level of support they are getting (and will likely continue to get unless something changes) which boils down to: "My life has been rubbish for a long time now. Since at least 2010 but quite possibly longer. I have tried voting for Brexit, Boris, and now Labour and nothing is getting better and everything is getting worse all the time. What have I got to lose by trying to vote for Reform seeing as the main parties haven't been able to make my life better?"

That's logical and I'm sure you're spot on, except Labour hasn't been in power long and has a big mess to fix. If Reform got in tomorrow, they'd be in the same boat (!) and just do what Trump is doing - which is going from all the 'day one' promises to 'Well, what can I do when the last guy made such a mess'?

In other words, Reform would do no better in such a short time-frame, and likely would start going against all the things they promised because they only say what they do to get the votes. It's hard to get people to vote for elites who want to do things like sell off the NHS, and a lot easier to get them to vote for them because they're going to stop boats (again, not sure what they could do much different because they aren't suggesting open up legal routes or anything that could make a difference).

Nigel 'Man of the People' Farage has even copied the idea of having a 'gold card' style citizenship scheme. Pay up and you're all sorted. Definitely something that resonates with all of us plebs.

 

[nw1]

I just don't understand how those people can't see that maybe voting Tory for 14 years and voting for Brexit has made things so bad that theres no chance any party could improve it in the year Labour have had!

Indeed, I do sometimes feel that sometimes we try to make excuses for Reform support. If you don't believe Labour or the Tories care enough about you, why not vote for a more left-wing party - as they are probably going to be the only people that will care more than the mainstream parties. The likes of Farage certainly won't, IMO.