Reform UK discussion

[ainsworth74]

Farage has been pretty open that he thinks we should look at European-style health insurance models. But the response is usually to bring up the bogeyman of US healthcare and shut down any debate. But we've been pumping ever increasing amounts of money into the NHS (even under 'austerity', it still got realterms budget increases) and performance seems to be getting worse. Is it not time to see if a different model might work better?

Happy to but it's the sort of thing for a Royal Commission to provide recommendations and advice on having undertake detailed research with cross-party agreement to implement the recommendations rather than for one party to just choose an option and hope for the best. Yes it would take some time but this feels like the sort of thing that needs a bit of time taking if, at the end of it, there is agreement to implement the recommendations. The main issue with inquires at the moment is that we love a good inquiry and then don't do anything other than pay lip service to the outcome.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

What Farage is very good at is getting a single issue into the limelight. I would guess that if you asked those who say they are gojng to vote Reform why their answer would, largely, be about getting rid of illegal migrants. If you asked them about which other Reform policies they like, or didn't like, they would probably look blankly at you as other than immigration they won't know what they are.

 

[geoffk]

I don't have an issue with the media giving Reform lots of coverage necessarily given the polls but the nature of the coverage of Farage etc i.e. sensationalist etc is very bad.

Reform continues to do very well in local by elections narrowly holding a council seat in Doncaster on Thursday and even managing to get 22% in Barrhead, East Renfrewshire nearly pushing the SNP into 3rd.

Farage plays on people's fear and insecurity for his own political ends. His gullible supporters hear what they want to hear. This worked for Hitler and more recently for Trump - is this someone to whom the BBC should be giving so much air time (regardless of the polls)?

 

[greatkingrat]

Farage plays on people's fear and insecurity for his own political ends. His gullible supporters hear what they want to hear. This worked for Hitler and more recently for Trump - is this someone to whom the BBC should be giving so much air time (regardless of the polls)?

So you want a system where the BBC only gives airtime to "approved" candidates? Who exactly do you think should make the decision on which candidates are worthy of airtime, and which are not?

 

[geoffk]

So you want a system where the BBC only gives airtime to "approved" candidates? Who exactly do you think should make the decision on which candidates are worthy of airtime, and which are not?

Farage gets much more air time than the Liberal Democrats or the Greens. He'll be entitled to party political broadcasts before the next election and, in the meantime, there needs to be much more robust questioning of him and his party's policies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Farage gets much more air time than the Liberal Democrats or the Greens.

That is to be fair in line with the level of vote he'd get if an election took place tomorrow.

 

[PGAT]

That is to be fair in line with the level of vote he'd get if an election took place tomorrow.

How much of it is a self-fulfilling prophecy though? It may be that if Reform weren’t treated as the effective opposition the electorate would view it as such

 

[Class 317]

I heard a report on the radio earlier something about a reform council banning journalists from contacting councillors and press releases. Can't find anything about it.
Anyone else heard this and know more details or have a link to a news site for it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How much of it is a self-fulfilling prophecy though? It may be that if Reform weren’t treated as the effective opposition the electorate would view it as such

In effect they are. The Tories are a spent force.

 

[Purple Train]

I heard a report on the radio earlier something about a reform council banning journalists from contacting councillors and press releases. Can't find anything about it.
Anyone else heard this and know more details or have a link to a news site for it?

The Nottingham Post, and Nottinghamshire council. I have to say it takes rather a lot to shock me, but I am quite shocked.
Here's the Grauniad: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rm-leader-a-massive-attack-on-local-democracy

A Reform council leader’s decision to ban his councillors from engaging with a prominent local newspaper is a “massive attack on local democracy” and a sign of things to come should the party form the next government, the outlet’s editor has warned.

In an unprecedented move, Nottinghamshire county council’s four-month-old Reform administration has said it will no longer deal with the Nottingham Post, its online edition and a team of BBC-funded local democracy journalists that it manages.


Nigel Farage is already facing calls to intervene in the row, with local MPs accusing Reform of “rank hypocrisy” over its previous claims to support free speech and transparency. Lee Anderson, the Reform MP for Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, has said he will join in the boycott.

 

[Ted633]

I heard a report on the radio earlier something about a reform council banning journalists from contacting councillors and press releases. Can't find anything about it.
Anyone else heard this and know more details or have a link to a news site for it?

Also on the BBC

Reform UK Nottinghamshire council leader bans local newspaper's reporters

The Nottingham Post describes the ban as "concerning" and "unprecedented".

www.bbc.co.uk

Straight out of the far right playbook

 

[deltic]

I am told it is not profiteering every time this happens because it is energy companies reacting to increased costs. And yet at the end of every financial year they are announcing record profits! If you have an item that you buy for £1 and sell for £2 that is £1 profit. If the cost of said product increases to £2 and you increase your selling price by the same amount to £3, your profit is still £1. And yet energy companies seem to increase their profits every year which is all I need to see to know what game they are playing

A significant number of electricity distribution companies went under following the increases in gas prices following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

What Farage is very good at is getting a single issue into the limelight. I would guess that if you asked those who say they are gojng to vote Reform why their answer would, largely, be about getting rid of illegal migrants. If you asked them about which other Reform policies they like, or didn't like, they would probably look blankly at you as other than immigration they won't know what they are.

Most people would struggle to name any political party's policies

 

[JamesT]

Not sure about unprecedented, doesn't take long to find https://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/...-ban-completely-false-but-refuses-to-deny-it/ where a Labour Mayor banned journalists.

The BBC and ITV have joined a boycott of mayoral press briefings after a council defended its decision to ban local democracy reporters.

Bristol City Council has hit back at the Bristol Post after journalists employed under the BBC-funded scheme were banned from regular briefings held by Mayor of Bristol Marvin Rees.

 

[SuspectUsual]

He'll be entitled to party political broadcasts before the next election

He already uses GB News as an ongoing party political broadcast

 

[jon0844]

I heard a report on the radio earlier something about a reform council banning journalists from contacting councillors and press releases. Can't find anything about it.
Anyone else heard this and know more details or have a link to a news site for it?

Nottingham. It isn't just the local paper but apparently the BBC and other media too.

Straight out of the Trump playbook where you limit the press to those who won't ask awkward questions. Actually, Boris did the exact same thing when Dominic Cummings was around. At least then the other journalists protested and threatened to leave also, standing in solidarity.

But Farage is now attacking Labour as destroying our free speech and using the likes of Lucy Connolly to show how we just can't say whatever we want, two-tier justice etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But Farage is now attacking Labour as destroying our free speech and using the likes of Lucy Connolly to show how we just can't say whatever we want, two-tier justice etc.

Labour do need to fix these things, though. It is the expectation of a citizen who complies with the law etc that if they get their bicycle nicked or their house broken into, the police will assist them in apprehending and punishing the offender. Instead it's doing other things which almost nobody thinks are a priority. This IS a problem.

When will the mainstream parties realise that to fight Reform they will have to fix these basics or properly justify why they do not or cannot?

Like Brexit it is this wilful ignorance of the priorities of the man in the street that is killing the vote for the mainstream parties.

Yes, it is about funding, but that's by the by, it just looks bad to the "man on the street".

 

[OhNoAPacer]

A significant number of electricity distribution companies went under following the increases in gas prices following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==


Most people would struggle to name any political party's policies

Possibly try, but traditionally people either voted that way because people like me always vote that way, though this disappeared to an extent at least a couple of elections ago or they voted for a party that across the board they felt was best, of course some voted to keep another party out.
The difference with Reform is that it is a single issue party, whipping up whatever it thinks will get them support, when Farage ran UKIP it was exiting the EU, with his current party it is anti migration.

 

[Bungle73]

Labour do need to fix these things, though. It is the expectation of a citizen who complies with the law etc that if they get their bicycle nicked or their house broken into, the police will assist them in apprehending and punishing the offender. Instead it's doing other things which almost nobody thinks are a priority. This IS a problem.

When will the mainstream parties realise that to fight Reform they will have to fix these basics or properly justify why they do not or cannot?

Like Brexit it is this wilful ignorance of the priorities of the man in the street that is killing the vote for the mainstream parties.

She committed a crime was punished for it. It's that simple. Not sure how you can claim protecting people from harm is not a "priority"?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

Oh and as for brexit, that didn't show "priorities", it showed abject racism, and now the country is suffering because of it.

 

[deltic]

Possibly try, but traditionally people either voted that way because people like me always vote that way, though this disappeared to an extent at least a couple of elections ago or they voted for a party that across the board they felt was best, of course some voted to keep another party out.
The difference with Reform is that it is a single issue party, whipping up whatever it thinks will get them support, when Farage ran UKIP it was exiting the EU, with his current party it is anti migration.

It is not a single issue party, it has promoted a number of policies that have received relatively wide coverage - eg raising the personal tax allowance to £20k, scrapping moves to net zero, giving tax breaks to doctors and nurses, 2 year degree courses. Whether the policies are coherent and deliverable is another matter (the same complaint can be made with the other mainstream parties) but they exist. Reform like any opposition party will go for the low hanging fruit in the same way the Tories are. Its just that in many ways Farage is more credible than the Tories.

 

[Bletchleyite]

She committed a crime was punished for it. It's that simple. Not sure how you can claim protecting people from harm is not a "priority"?

Where did I say she shouldn't? It is not either or.

The problem is not that she was arrested for a crime she indeed did commit. It is that the Police do not appear to serve the general public any more. This is a huge problem. It has destroyed the social contract of policing.

If I'm the victim of a crime such as cycle theft or burglary I expect Police assistance and punishment of the perpetrator. This is, by and large, not happening, or at least is perceived not to be happening.

This plays straight into Reform's hands.

I should note that this isn't because the Police are making wrong decisions, but rather that they aren't funded sufficiently to be able to do everything they are meant to be doing.

 

[Bungle73]

It is not a single issue party, it has promoted a number of policies that have received relatively wide coverage - eg raising the personal tax allowance to £20k, scrapping moves to net zero, giving tax breaks to doctors and nurses, 2 year degree courses. Whether the policies are coherent and deliverable is another matter (the same complaint can be made with the other mainstream parties) but they exist. Reform like any opposition party will go for the low hanging fruit in the same way the Tories are. Its just that in many ways Farage is more credible than the Tories.

"Farage" and "credible" are not two words that go together. At least the Tories bother to turn up to Parliament.........

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

Where did I say she shouldn't? It is not either or.

The problem is that the Police do not serve the general public any more. This is a huge problem. It has destroyed the social contract of policing.

If I'm the victim of a crime such as cycle theft or burglary I expect Police assistance and punishment of the perpetrator. This is, by and large, not happening, or at least is perceived not to be happening.

This plays straight into Reform's hands.

If you have a bike nicked, what do you expect the police to do exactly? They don't have the resources go after every single individual crime like that. Far better to use those resources to identity patterns, based on reported crimes, and use that info to identify and bring to justice the gangs behind multiple crimes, not just one.

 

[david1212]

It’s probably worth considering the increasing demands on the health service with our aging population, the aging estate owned by the NHS, and the absolutely phenomenal amount of money abstracted from the NHS by its private sector providers.

Indeed but a proportion of that is due to NHS / Civil Servant / Government policy.
Back ~20 years ago I was working for a medical equipment supplier. Much of what was originally directly NHS provided to the patient was gradually transferred to the private sector. Sure it reduced one NHS budget so the outsourced advisors & accountants looked good but added a much greater amount to another budget. The overheads of my employer increased as dealing with more accounts and deliveries to lots of addresses including small lots to individual houses every month instead of bulk to NHS.
The private sector providers often wanted a fixed cost for equipment and support presumably to pass with a markup to the NHS. Reasonably my employer quoted worst case for usage 24/7 and consumables so where lower usage e.g. 12/7 gained profit. As an analogy think of the servicing, tyres etc for a fleet of cars plus providing a loan car while work carried out. ( The NHS generally simply swapped out the item due for service for another from the pool then when serviced/repaired put this one into the pool ). Quote based on 15,000 miles per year but find in reality average use 10,000 miles per year. kerrrchinnnng!

That's one advantage of an insurance based system. We all get a contract of insurance stating what we are entitled to, and need to make our own arrangements for anything not so covered.

All very well if you have the funding. The whole principle of the NHS is that it is not based on the ability to pay.

 

[Lewisham2221]

She committed a crime was punished for it. It's that simple. Not sure how you can claim protecting people from harm is not a "priority"?

Maybe so, but the optics of it are that the police are arresting people for posting "hurty words" online, rather than dealing with things like shoplifting, burglary, phone theft etc etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All very well if you have the funding. The whole principle of the NHS is that it is not based on the ability to pay.

Nor are the European social insurance systems.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

Maybe so, but the optics of it are that the police are arresting people for posting "hurty words" online, rather than dealing with things like shoplifting, burglary, phone theft etc etc.

Bingo, this is the problem. If the latter were being dealt with, the former would likely not be being shouted about. They aren't. The social contract has thus been broken.

 

[Bungle73]

Maybe so, but the optics of it are that the police are arresting people for posting "hurty words" online, rather than dealing with things like shoplifting, burglary, phone theft etc etc.

Because families being murdered is nothing worth bothering about..................

And anyone who uses the phrase "hurty words" in relation to threats of violence and harm, which is a crime, and has been for at least 40 years, is not worth listening to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because families being murdered is nothing worth bothering about..................

And anyone who uses the phrase "hurty words" in relation to threats of violence and harm, which is a crime, and has been for at least 40 years, is not worth listening to.

Do you not get the optics, though?

As I said, if the Police would take it seriously in investigating and prosecuting if I reported my bicycle being stolen, the social contract would still be there. That is the problem.

No party is willing to resolve that. Police cuts have left them only dealing with things people don't see as important (regardless of whether they are or not). That's big and hugely important. People care that they and other British people aren't in receipt of the protection the social contract should provide them, and that is going to asylum seekers etc instead. That's bad optics, I'm afraid, whether you like it or not.

They need (of course) to be funded to be able to do both. Incitement to murder is not OK, but nor is stealing bicycles. However, only one of those things is presently being policed to any significant level. Please understand why that's a problem - and if Kier Starmer can't or won't get things like this and resolve them, Farage will win the next election.

 

[Harpo]

Maybe so, but the optics of it are that the police are arresting people for posting "hurty words" online, rather than dealing with things like shoplifting, burglary, phone theft etc etc.

Had Lucy Connolly been non-white and followed a non-christian ethos to advocate death to other folk, nobody would dream of calling them ‘hurty words’ or be calling her a ‘political prisoner’.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Had Lucy Connolly been non-white and followed a non-christian ethos to advocate death to other folk, nobody would dream of calling them ‘hurty words’ or be calling her a ‘political prisoner’.

Again, this part of it is largely irrelevant. Nobody bar the likes of Yaxley-Lennon (who can be ignored) would be complaining about her (rightful) arrest if the Police were still able to serve the general public, and they are not. ASB isn't dealt with. Petty theft isn't dealt with. Shoplifting isn't dealt with. Burglary isn't dealt with. As I said, the social contract is broken and it must - must! - be fixed.

 

[Bungle73]

Do you not get the optics, though?

As I said, if the Police would take it seriously in investigating and prosecuting if I reported my bicycle being stolen, the social contract would still be there. That is the problem.

No party is willing to resolve that. Police cuts have left them only dealing with things people don't see as important (regardless of whether they are or not). That's big and hugely important. People care that they and other British people aren't in receipt of the protection the social contract should provide them, and that is going to asylum seekers etc instead. That's bad optics, I'm afraid, whether you like it or not.

They need (of course) to be funded to be able to do both. Incitement to murder is not OK, but nor is stealing bicycles. However, only one of those things is presently being policed to any significant level. Please understand why that's a problem - and if Kier Starmer can't or won't get things like this and resolve them, Farage will win the next election.

The fact that anyone would ever dream of putting a man like Farage in a position of power, is the REAL problem in this country, not anything else

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact that anyone would ever dream of putting a man like Farage in a position of power, is the REAL problem in this country, not anything else

That's the exact attitude that led to Brexit.

It is not going to work to simply deride people who vote for a legitimate political party. Labour MUST listen to their concerns and address them or they won't win another election in the foreseeable.

I don't intend on voting for them - but I'm strongly of the view that enough will for a convincing majority if Labour don't start addressing these issues properly and honestly rather than just ignoring them and bleating about Reform's right wing nature.