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Apart from in run-down towns that hardly anyone would want to live in, can you show me polls that actually state a majority of people would vote for Reform?
There are an awful lot of people who have lapped up the half truths and lies that Farage & co spout, and who now believe they are the downtrodden and the blame for all the things they don’t have in life lies with immigrants, (some of) the mainstream media and the established political parties.
Absolutely this, but they are not the majority of the population. They may be a majority in certain areas, which are the sort of areas that most people want to avoid.
The problem I have, and maybe others on here, is confirmation bias because the people we choose to be friends with tend to have similar beliefs, so if i think Farage is a mendacious snake oil salesman and that Lowe is a nasty, bitter little racist, the people I discuss it with will think in broadly similar ways
Added to that Reform have been consistently leading most opinion polls conducted over the past 4-5 months. As much as I loathe them, it's not unreasonable they're getting a lot of media coverage.
I don't have an issue with the media giving Reform lots of coverage necessarily given the polls but the nature of the coverage of Farage etc i.e. sensationalist etc is very bad.
Reform continues to do very well in local by elections narrowly holding a council seat in Doncaster on Thursday and even managing to get 22% in Barrhead, East Renfrewshire nearly pushing the SNP into 3rd.
Apart from in run-down towns that hardly anyone would want to live in, can you show me polls that actually state a majority of people would vote for Reform?
Absolutely this, but they are not the majority of the population. They may be a majority in certain areas, which are the sort of areas that most people want to avoid.
Yes it's true that most people don't like to associate with racists and xenophobes, but that's not difficult, because most people aren't like that.
Which given the nature of FPTP, is all a party needs to achieve to win seats. Labour essentially won last time because they weren't the Conservatives, are you really sure there's enough out there who would actively vote to keep Reform out?
Almost 21000 people have commented on the BBC news website following Farage's latest anti-migrant announcement. Taking a few Reform specific views in most-commented order:
74% Farage is a hypocrite or engineering 'this' for his own gain (7710 of 10,349)
77% Farage said Brexit would fix the problem (5776 of 7444)
84% Farage is managing to con many into thinking that he is the solution (3894 of 4613)
78% Farage would be catastrophic as a Prime Minister. (3957 of 5030)
75% Farage campaigns on an issue he helped create when we left the EU. (1926 of 2542)
74% Farage has already ended up costing the country a lot more than illegal migration costs. (1882 of 2522)
Yes, it's a BBC-only vox-pop and other broadcasters would probably get different results, but it's an interesting and sizeable sample.
This is hardly surprising when a not inconsiderable reason for Reform's surge in the polls is the: "Everything is broken, nobody seems able to fix it, the two historic parties seem to both be as bad as each other, what have I got to lose by trying these guys and if that burns it all down? Maybe it needs to be burnt down?" type thinking.
Sure, Reform attract a lot of the xenophobes and racists. But that's just a core base of support, I bet around 10% or so which is where they've polled previously before Labour revealed themselves to not have a single iota of a clue how to have a coherent message about how they'll improve things and seem to be obsessed with trying to out-Reform Reform which is only ever going to end badly for them.
And so, we face down the real risk of a Reform administration after the next General Election because the Tories are utterly lost (and I reckon if they have another bad set of results in next years local elections they'll split anyway) and Labour are equally lost (still can't work out if Starmer is badly advised, not up to the task or a bit of both).
Fingers crossed everyone that either Labour have a miraculously recovery and remember how to govern and what they actually stand for and/or some sort of coalition of the anti-Right pulls itself together in 2029 to prevent a Reform government.
I think that's right, but the danger is that the anti-far-right vote will be split between Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. Unless Labour and Lib Dems do a deal or Starmer fixes the boat problem, Farage is on track to be PM.
I think rather than a top-down approach, a lot of prominent policies, including matters immigration (and others like assisted dying), should be decided from the bottom-up. I think the problem is several different parties come up with ideas that don't work in reality, they only come up with them because they appeal to their target voters. Anything Reform UK come up will at best be like the incumbents and predecessor governments, because they've come up with an idea with the hope a critical mass of voters buy into it, but will not appeal to a significant chunk of others, and by all probability ignored expert advice.
A bottom-up approach would involve citizens' assemblies forming, consisting of stratified samples of key groups with different perspectives, deciding what the best policy(ies) is, considering all expert advice and what is realistically achievable. Once a firm conclusion has been reached, then it could go through the following:
- Direct implementation by incumbent government, particularly if their manifesto said they'd use citizens' assemblies to decide contentious policies.
- Put the resultant policy decision in the next manifesto and implement it then, if the first option is considered too undemocratic.
- Put the policy proposed to a referendum, as happens with a number of Swiss policies. We would have to have much stricter laws governing referendums though, like Switzerland does, before pursuing this option.
I think that's right, but the danger is that the anti-far-right vote will be split between Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. Unless Labour and Lib Dems do a deal or Starmer fixes the boat problem, Farage is on track to be PM.
Yes, that is a danger in some places. However, I would expect to see many people voting for the party most likely to defeat the far-right, even if that means not voting for the party they most want to win, but it may not always be obvious in some places where that is.
I had to drive up to Brandon earlier today, one of the old pit villages just outside Durham, and there were a lot of St George crosses on lampposts and fences, and a lot of red crosses spray painted on signs that were oblong and with a white background.
I had to drive up to Brandon earlier today, one of the old pit villages just outside Durham, and there were a lot of St George crosses on lampposts and fences, and a lot of red crosses spray painted on signs that were oblong and with a white background.
This is hardly surprising when a not inconsiderable reason for Reform's surge in the polls is the: "Everything is broken, nobody seems able to fix it, the two historic parties seem to both be as bad as each other, what have I got to lose by trying these guys and if that burns it all down? Maybe it needs to be burnt down?" type thinking.
Sure, Reform attract a lot of the xenophobes and racists. But that's just a core base of support, I bet around 10% or so which is where they've polled previously before Labour revealed themselves to not have a single iota of a clue how to have a coherent message about how they'll improve things and seem to be obsessed with trying to out-Reform Reform which is only ever going to end badly for them.
And so, we face down the real risk of a Reform administration after the next General Election because the Tories are utterly lost (and I reckon if they have another bad set of results in next years local elections they'll split anyway) and Labour are equally lost (still can't work out if Starmer is badly advised, not up to the task or a bit of both).
Fingers crossed everyone that either Labour have a miraculously recovery and remember how to govern and what they actually stand for and/or some sort of coalition of the anti-Right pulls itself together in 2029 to prevent a Reform government.
They have appeared in St Albans. On a Zebra crossing near me every white rectangle has some cheap red spray paint in a cross. Whoever did it must be a little short on the grey matter though, as they also did a red cross on a distinctly unwhite fire hydrant cover nearby in the pavement. And again on a yellow parking restriction sign. Perhaps they are a fan of Nordic history.
Yes, that is a danger in some places. However, I would expect to see many people voting for the party most likely to defeat the far-right, even if that means not voting for the party they most want to win, but it may not always be obvious in some places where that is.
I think you underestimate how many on the left will simply not bother to vote. Labour have made me realise there is literally no political party for me (the average working person with little money to my name), so I see no point in wasting my time going to a polling station in the future. I will not be the only one who is in this mindset.
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
I think you underestimate how many on the left will simply not bother to vote. Labour have made me realise there is literally no political party for me (the average working person with little money to my name), so I see no point in wasting my time going to a polling station in the future. I will not be the only one who is in this mindset.
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
Sometimes I think our cultural tolerance is our weakness. We moan, but do nothing more. We wait and hope the answer turns up, then moan when what we thought was the answer turned out not to be. This allows all sorts of groups to exploit us: some of them politicians and/or their parties, some of them foreign private equity asset strippers (see water companies and the steel industry), some of them media barons based in tax havens, the list goes on.
If the UK wants to get better, we need to turn tolerance into active intervention towards what needs doing. We need to be the solution, not wait for the solution. Grassroots campaigning around core system problems (like FPTP and who owns the country), citizens' assemblies to reach the best solutions that work across society, and finding better means to hold those in power to account to deliver.
Sometimes I think our cultural tolerance is our weakness. We moan, but do nothing more. We wait and hope the answer turns up, then moan when what we thought was the answer turned out not to be. This allows all sorts of groups to exploit us: some of them politicians and/or their parties, some of them foreign private equity asset strippers (see water companies and the steel industry), some of them media barons based in tax havens, the list goes on.
If the UK wants to get better, we need to turn tolerance into active intervention towards what needs doing. We need to be the solution, not wait for the solution. Grassroots campaigning around core system problems (like FPTP and who owns the country), citizens' assemblies to reach the best solutions that work across society, and finding better means to hold those in power to account to deliver.
It is how people have been brainwashed I am afraid. Look at all the effort people go to to fight against immigration and stories of migrants on boats and then look at how much of a fight they put up against rising prices with energy, groceries, fuel, taxes etc. People no longer care about the things that actually impact them because they have been told to ignore those and focus on things like small boats and small poxy islands in the Indian Ocean - and who are the people dictating where that focus is? Exactly the sort of people who can end up benefiting from us paying higher rates for just about everything. It's like someone pointing towards something in the sky so you are distracted enough to allow them to steal the last chip off your plate.
Only today we have been told that energy prices will go up more than expected (more profiteering) and yet the news has passed by with barely a whimper. But if that grifter Tommy Robinson tweeted that a muslim man had bumped into a white woman in the street, the story would be trending for days!
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
I think you underestimate how many on the left will simply not bother to vote. Labour have made me realise there is literally no political party for me (the average working person with little money to my name), so I see no point in wasting my time going to a polling station in the future. I will not be the only one who is in this mindset.
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
It’s not profiteering. The whole sale price of electiricty is actually lower than a year ago. We are paying for increased transmission costs because the distributors are struggling to get consent for the additional transmission capacity we need to supply us with all the ‘spare’ electricity generated by renewables.
Of course it is a serious post. Where would you like me to move to (bearing in mind I am skint, not well travelled and don't speak any other languages)?
It’s not profiteering. The whole sale price of electiricty is actually lower than a year ago. We are paying for increased transmission costs because the distributors are struggling to get consent for the additional transmission capacity we need to supply us with all the ‘spare’ electricity generated by renewables.
I am told it is not profiteering every time this happens because it is energy companies reacting to increased costs. And yet at the end of every financial year they are announcing record profits! If you have an item that you buy for £1 and sell for £2 that is £1 profit. If the cost of said product increases to £2 and you increase your selling price by the same amount to £3, your profit is still £1. And yet energy companies seem to increase their profits every year which is all I need to see to know what game they are playing
One of the few benefits of them winning so many councils, is by the next election they will actually have a record in some form of power that will mean they're not an unknown entity. So far it's been poor (councillor infighting, not realising what they signed up for, getting rid of DEI that doesn't exist, etc.), which if this continues will provide ample material come 2029 to use against them. Other parties should focus more on this instead of whatever policies they propose.
This isn't new by any means, but I think it sums up Farage very well
(Image is a cartoon showing Farage, a British worker, and an immigrant. The worker has a cookie, the immigrant does not, but Farage has about 10 cookies. Farage is saying to the worker "careful mate, that immigrant wants your cookie")
I had to drive up to Brandon earlier today, one of the old pit villages just outside Durham, and there were a lot of St George crosses on lampposts and fences, and a lot of red crosses spray painted on signs that were oblong and with a white background.
I don't have an issue with the media giving Reform lots of coverage necessarily given the polls but the nature of the coverage of Farage etc i.e. sensationalist etc is very bad.
Reform continues to do very well in local by elections narrowly holding a council seat in Doncaster on Thursday and even managing to get 22% in Barrhead, East Renfrewshire nearly pushing the SNP into 3rd.
I generally support the BBC and would fight to protect it, but having Farage's speech about deporting hundreds of thousands of people was top story for most of the day - and even Farage backtracked later on.
Like commercial media, the BBC is now expected to get a certain level of traffic and engagement to justify funding its news site - and that means it has to do what the others do, and 'ragebait' gets clicks. Farage is controversial and will ALWAYS turn up to give a soundbite or interview (just like anyone who often claims to be cancelled does, obviously) so naturally they'll always call him up.
Labour needs to step up and realise it has to engage with the media (Corbyn was even worse) and also utilise social media effectively, because Reform is absolutely nailing it with the nasty rhetoric on TikTok and even Instagram and YouTube through their short videos (which are usually reposts of TikTok). The algorithm soon ensures people see more and more stuff. Throw in the use of bots and people paid to boost the content and we're going to see that young people may well vote Reform - which seems like a stark contrast to previous generations where people usually start out more left leaning and move right as they get older.
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I had to drive up to Brandon earlier today, one of the old pit villages just outside Durham, and there were a lot of St George crosses on lampposts and fences, and a lot of red crosses spray painted on signs that were oblong and with a white background.
Welwyn Garden City has been 'hit' too, so nowhere is safe. There's loads of red paint all over the road too.
It's nothing other than vandalism, but I see a lot of people are now modifying them or painting other flags on roundabouts. I suspect that this will annoy those patriots who will suddenly say it's not okay anymore.
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I think you underestimate how many on the left will simply not bother to vote. Labour have made me realise there is literally no political party for me (the average working person with little money to my name), so I see no point in wasting my time going to a polling station in the future. I will not be the only one who is in this mindset.
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
Well, if you help make it happen then it will. Then you'll maybe feature on one of those FAFO videos all over the Internet from people who supported Trump and then found out how it quickly affected them.
Being in your mid 40s means you have many, many years left to find out what Farage and Tice would do, when they talk of mass deportations, ending human rights, changing the NHS funding, creating their own 'DOGE', pushing 'drill, baby, drill' to restart fracking and use more oil over green energy etc.
If you support that, at least say so honestly instead of pretending you're going to do nothing and just let it happen. At the very least, if you don't want that, make a strategic vote to stop Reform getting in.
It's like those who compared Harris with Trump, as if it made no difference who you voted for...
I think you underestimate how many on the left will simply not bother to vote. Labour have made me realise there is literally no political party for me (the average working person with little money to my name), so I see no point in wasting my time going to a polling station in the future. I will not be the only one who is in this mindset.
Farage is going to waltz into number 10 and to be quite frank, this country deserves that! I'm just glad that by the time the next general election comes around, I will be mid-40s and on the slide towards the end because I cannot imagine what it is going to be like for the younger generations over the course of the next few decades.
This is a rather defeatist attitude. If there's no candidate that you can vote positively for, you should at least be looking at the candidates that you'd least like to take your seat and vote for the party that's most likely to defeat them, even if they're unlikely to win.
I hate tactical voting and we shouldn't have to do it, but not voting at all isn't good. I'd prefer that you'd turn up at the polling station and spoil your ballot paper; spoiled ballots are counted.
Is Farage going to waltz into number 10? No, because the waltz is an Austrian thing and that wouldn't do!
One of the few benefits of them winning so many councils, is by the next election they will actually have a record in some form of power that will mean they're not an unknown entity. So far it's been poor (councillor infighting, not realising what they signed up for, getting rid of DEI that doesn't exist, etc.), which if this continues will provide ample material come 2029 to use against them. Other parties should focus more on this instead of whatever policies they propose.
A classic bit of Farage double-speak is stating that he believes ‘health care should be free at the point of delivery’, but without stating whether that's through the NHS or a health insurance policy.
A classic bit of Farage double-speak is stating that he believes ‘health care should be free at the point of delivery’, but without stating whether that's through the NHS or a health insurance policy.
In fairness it's perfectly possible to have functional healthcare via models other than that provided for by the NHS. Germany has an insurance based system for instance but I don't think we'd describe them as having a terrible health system.
That being said, I have no doubt that Farage, despite his German wife meaning he likely has a very good idea of how it would work, is eyeing up a US style insurance system to ensure that the maximum amount of money can be extracted and directed into the correct pockets.
It is one of those deep contradictions within Reform. A huge chunk of their voter base relies on the NHS and wants to protect the NHS but the leadership of their party is more interested in dismantling it and selling of the carcass. This is of course why they focus on immigration and asylum seekers to distract from the fact that their policies (such as they are) are not in the interests of their voters and why they're vulnerable to someone who managed to at least improve the vibes around the country. But Labour seemed locked into saying nothing and when they do say something they'll just try to out-Reform Reform.
A classic bit of Farage double-speak is stating that he believes ‘health care should be free at the point of delivery’, but without stating whether that's through the NHS or a health insurance policy.
A classic bit of Farage double-speak is stating that he believes ‘health care should be free at the point of delivery’, but without stating whether that's through the NHS or a health insurance policy.
Farage has been pretty open that he thinks we should look at European-style health insurance models. But the response is usually to bring up the bogeyman of US healthcare and shut down any debate. But we've been pumping ever increasing amounts of money into the NHS (even under 'austerity', it still got realterms budget increases) and performance seems to be getting worse. Is it not time to see if a different model might work better?
Farage has been pretty open that he thinks we should look at European-style health insurance models. But the response is usually to bring up the bogeyman of US healthcare and shut down any debate. But we've been pumping ever increasing amounts of money into the NHS (even under 'austerity', it still got realterms budget increases) and performance seems to be getting worse. Is it not time to see if a different model might work better?
It’s probably worth considering the increasing demands on the health service with our aging population, the aging estate owned by the NHS, and the absolutely phenomenal amount of money abstracted from the NHS by its private sector providers.
That's one advantage of an insurance based system. We all get a contract of insurance stating what we are entitled to, and need to make our own arrangements for anything not so covered.
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