Redditch double tracking

[mumrar]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14974218
Network Rail are proposing a 2 mile section of double track between Redditch and Barnt Green (for those wanting to look on a map, the south end will start north of Weights Lane, the north end will finish before crossing the canal after Alvechurch station) by 2014. It will increase the service capacity to 20 minute intervals rather than the current 30 minutes. It will also give less cause to turn trains at Barnt Green due to late running to recover services on the single line. It means that for the first time in it's history Alvechurch will have a two platform station.

The reason for the section chosen is that there are no bridges under the line between those points, which would require expensive civil engineering works, and all of the overbridges on the single line were built to a double track loading gauge, so minimal engineering is required there.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Good to see.

Would this mean an evenly spaced service or the half hourly service as now with an extra train slotted in?

 

[Class172]

Public consultations are happening this week in Alvechurch and Redditch.

 

[sonic2009]

great idea, how would this be achieved in giving a 20minute service? Would LM or New Franchisee need extra units, or a simple extension of Longbridge Terminators to Redditch?

 

[SS4]

great idea, how would this be achieved in giving a 20minute service? Would LM or New Franchisee need extra units, or a simple extension of Longbridge Terminators to Redditch?

I believe the plan is to extend a Longbridge terminator

 

[Class172]

I believe the plan is to extend a Longbridge terminator

A long way in the future it will be 3tph to Redditch and 3tph to Bromsgrove, with one terminating at Longbridge - but that's way off.

 

[gg1]

Excellent news, very pleased to see they've gone for a dynamic loop rather than the cheap option of just a short passing loop.

 

[The Planner]

It has been done on the cheap, the loop isn't in the best place.

 

[Class172]

If it wasn't done on the cheap, then I'd expect more double track.

 

[The Planner]

Don't need more double track, put the loop where the trains would naturally cross then you don't have an issue.

 

[Zoe]

Don't need more double track, put the loop where the trains would naturally cross then you don't have an issue.

Why not recast the timetable so they will cross where the loop is?

 

[Class172]

I do wish though they would improve the junction at Stoke Works to allow at least some double track towards Droitwich - anything for a 2tph service to New St.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why not recast the timetable so they will cross where the loop is?

Because a recast would have a knock on potentially as far back as New St or the dreaded section from New St to Kings Norton via University.

 

[The Planner]

Why not recast the timetable so they will cross where the loop is?

You can, but when they have a maximum permitted journey time and the slots through New St aren't easily moveable it isn't easy.

 

[Zoe]

Because a recast would have a knock on potentially as far back as New St or the dreaded section from New St to Kings Norton via University.

Well you'd have to take this into account for any recast but is it really impossible?

 

[gg1]

Don't need more double track, put the loop where the trains would naturally cross then you don't have an issue.

They've selected what's very close to the central section of the route, the remaining single track sections look to be approximately 1 mile long at the north end and 1.5 miles at the south, this should be ample for an evenly spaced 3 tph frequency.

 

[Class172]

Well you'd have to take this into account for any recast but is it really impossible?

Probably is possible but it would take an awful amount of work and consideration to plan it - especially with limited space at New St.

 

[The Planner]

They've selected what's very close to the central section of the route, the remaining single track sections look to be approximately 1 mile long at the north end and 1.5 miles at the south, this should be ample for an evenly spaced 3 tph frequency.

It isn't ideal, believe me, they actually naturally cross closer to Redditch than where the loop has been decided.

 

[Batman]

So I take it the rolling stock for this will come from the 17 323's that are due to be transfered from Northern to LM in 2014?

It's also worth pointing out that trains starting at Redditch in the morning peak and terminating there in the evening peak will need to be formed of 6 cars.

So from 2014 will 3 tph terminate at Longbridge and 3tph at Redditch or will the Longbridge terminators be running to Bromsgrove by then?

Or is Bromgrove still a long way and they're only going to extend an extra 1tph beyond Longbridge for now.

And I guess there will still only be 2tph to Redditch in the evenings and on Sundays?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It isn't ideal, believe me, they actually naturally cross closer to Redditch than where the loop has been decided.

Would it be viable to double tract the whole line from Barnt Green to just before Redditch station?

 

[Class172]

So from 2014 will 3 tph terminate at Longbridge and 3tph at Redditch or will the Longbridge terminators be running to Bromsgrove by then?

Or is Bromgrove still a long way and they're only going to extend an extra 1tph beyond Longbridge for now.

I think Bromsgrove is a while off yet; it's all gone quiet recently in the local news.

 

[mumrar]

It isn't ideal, believe me, they actually naturally cross closer to Redditch than where the loop has been decided.

How can trains which don't currently pass, on a timetable which doesn't currently exist have somewhere they naturally cross?

Also, to those criticising where they have chosen, it is the best option as it is very central between Redditch and Barnt Green and it is also very light on the required engineering work. The more work is required, the less likely it is to get funded or go ahead. It will be interesting to see what speed the crossover will be on the south end as they are upto 70mph heading south and very close to it when going north. At the north end the canal bridge is 35mph, short section of 40mph, then 20mph through the station at Alvechurch.

 

[Batman]

I think Bromsgrove is a while off yet; it's all gone quiet recently in the local news.

Like I've said on other threads, the work at Bromsgorve isn't actually needed.

The only work thats needed is for the footbridge to be re-built and for the track to be lifted on the old sidings so that the Birmingam platform can be extended and an extra 100 or so car parking spaces built.

You can have 3tph there simply by adding a stop on the Nottingham - Cardiff service and by having a half hourly New Street - Worcester Forgate Street service. Thats possible with existing rolling stock on existing infrastructure.

 

[Class172]

Like I've said on other threads, the work at Bromsgorve isn't actually needed.

The only work thats needed is for the footbridge to be re-built and for the track to be lifted on the old sidings so that the Birmingam platform can be extended and an extra 100 or so car parking spaces built.

You can have 3tph there simply by adding a stop on the Nottingham - Cardiff service and by having a half hourly New Street - Worcester Forgate Street service. Thats possible with existing rolling stock on existing infrastructure.

To be honest, I fail to see why Bromsgrove is so 'special,' especially when other busier stations suffer even more. I don't even think 3tph for Bromsgrove is necessary; a twice hourly Birmingham New St - Worcester (and beyond) should suffice.

 

[mumrar]

To be honest, I fail to see why Bromsgrove is so 'special,' especially when other busier stations suffer even more. I don't even think 3tph for Bromsgrove is necessary; a twice hourly Birmingham New St - Worcester (and beyond) should suffice.

The problem with that is that none of the local places are served. Bromsgrove to Barnt Green, Longbridge etc are much longer if you stop exclusively services between Worcester and New Street. If you have the X-City ones extending it even gives the possibility of Bromsgrove to Alvechurch and Redditch subject to connection times at Barnt Green being suitable.

Also, maybe by utilising the X-City services the Sunday service could be improved from Bromsgrove which currently starts after 13:00 I believe.

 

[Class172]

I do think that more services should stop at Barnt Green though such as the BHM-GMVs.

Also, maybe by utilising the X-City services the Sunday service could be improved from Bromsgrove which currently starts after 13:00 I believe.

Bromsgrove doesn't have a Birmingham bound service until after 15:00.

 

[Batman]

Stopping the Birmingham - Hereford service at Barnt Green would be a good idea for connection to the new 3tph Redditch - Birmingham service.

If the New Street - Worcester service does become half hourly (let's not go into a debate on whether the extra service will start at Leicester or Tamworth or not) a doubt it will stop at University outside of peak time.

 

[Class172]

Stopping the Birmingham - Hereford service at Barnt Green would be a good idea for connection to the new 3tph Redditch - Birmingham service.

If the New Street - Worcester service does become half hourly (let's not go into a debate on whether the extra service will start at Leicester or Tamworth or not) a doubt it will stop at University outside of peak time.

If you want a debate on that then feel free as there is already a thread here.

 

[bluenoxid]

How can trains which don't currently pass, on a timetable which doesn't currently exist have somewhere they naturally cross?

Also, to those criticising where they have chosen, it is the best option as it is very central between Redditch and Barnt Green and it is also very light on the required engineering work. The more work is required, the less likely it is to get funded or go ahead. It will be interesting to see what speed the crossover will be on the south end as they are upto 70mph heading south and very close to it when going north. At the north end the canal bridge is 35mph, short section of 40mph, then 20mph through the station at Alvechurch.

Planner will probably state that the timetable does exist. It does not take much to plan for a service which is already terminating a few miles down the line. We call it simulating and planning in my line of work. I wonder what The Planner does for a living?

 

[The Planner]

A planned timetable has already been performance modelled on the options that there were (and there were over 6 from what I have heard), this loop has been chosen as it is the cheapest based on the possible delays that could be incurred. It doesnt mean it is the best option operationally.

 

[Class172]

Well it's better than nothing though.