Reasons provided for delays to train services

[jimm]

I've seen some very odd 'disruption' reasons on their website, e.g. Train short formed due to waiting for a member of crew. It taxes the imagination sometimes!

Not really. If you have a type of train where you need a driver in the facing cabs while coupling or uncoupling sets - certainly seems to be the case with Turbos at Oxford station - but there is only one available then seems a perfectly rational explanation.

 

[PHILIPE]

No, we did not stop at Ludlow or Leominster and came straight through to Hereford. The guard informed us of the amended stops correctly, but the online info as per ATW was all over the place, so those on the train were well informed but those intending to board at any now 'not stopping' stations would have been disappoint

It also showed stops at Abergavenny and Cwmbran but according to the guard these were being passed through without stopping too.

I've seen some very odd 'disruption' reasons on their website, e.g. Train short formed due to waiting for a member of crew. It taxes the imagination sometimes!

Thanks for clearing that up and to others for explaining further re reporting of trains and as to what appears in RTT.
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Not really. If you have a type of train where you need a driver in the facing cabs while coupling or uncoupling sets - certainly seems to be the case with Turbos at Oxford station - but there is only one available then seems a perfectly rational explanation.

There was no coupling involved here. Seems to say ATW were trying to say two things at the same time.

 

[infobleep]

"I do apologise for the train being five minutes late. It's for no bloody reason at all."...

That would be nice then no delay money would need to exchange get hands!

At least South West Trains and Network Rail no longer pay each has other for delays.

I personally don't see how it helps, so long as the TOCs and NR are interested in running trains to the best of their ability.

May be someone else can explain why delay attribution is a good idea.
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Emergency services dealing with an incident isn't usually a Person Hit by train (PHBT). A PHBT is normally announced around here at least as The XX:xx service to XYZ is delayed. This is due to a Person hit by a train.

That doesn't always appear to be the case when South West Trains report the incidents. However as it's not consistent I put it down to who ever is writing the incident reports for the delay reporting sites.

Yesterday morning a person was hit by a train in Fratton, which lead to delays and cancellations as it affected trains being able to leave the Fratton depot.

I don't know if it was fatal and my thoughts go out to those involved especially the driver.

This was reported on Twitter and on South West Trains Journey Check page but not on National Rail Enquiries, despite it lasting, understandably, some hours. A 10 minute delay due to a level crossing at Barns was reported on National Rail Enquiries however. Both are on the South West Trains network.

In the evening there was another fatality, this time at Witley, again on the South West Trains network. Sadly a person with depression committed suicide and died. Again thoughts with everyone, including the driver and the deceaseds family.

That event was reported on Twitter, Journey Check and National Rail Enquiries.

This shows that how incidents get reported depends on who is working at the time and possibly even now many people are working at the time of an incident.
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Already has happened at EMT stations, its the new Darwin system, although it won't have any control over what members of staff announce, although the same reason will be on the output messages to all staff, its down to staff whether they choose to look or not. TPE, SWT, LO and ATW stations are still to be connected, but in the end the same reason (amongst other things) will be advertised across the whole network (and online) - with that reason (and alterations, etc) being set by the train operating company of the train.

Does anyone know when SWT are due to come on board? Overall they do OK as it is, which shows no matter how good the system is, it needs staff and management to use it right. I say management whilst thinking of Southern and Thameslink and their what appears to be lack of interest in communications during disruptions.

 

[jimm]

There was no coupling involved here. Seems to say ATW were trying to say two things at the same time.

I was referring to the website excuse about a short-formed train cited by trainophile in the post I quoted, which seemed to be a reference to a separate occasion, not the specific journey yesterday from Manchester to Hereford and the mixed messages that were being given out in that case.

 

[Tomnick]

That would be nice then no delay money would need to exchange get hands!

I love your optimism! There are codes (Z-codes) for unexplained delay minutes - usually 'sub-threshold' delays, I think. I understand that these are paid for somehow, but possibly split between NR and the TOC so that, ultimately, no money changes hands?

I personally don't see how it helps, so long as the TOCs and NR are interested in running trains to the best of their ability.

May be someone else can explain why delay attribution is a good idea.

In such a fragmented industry, I suppose it's important that there's some sort of compensation for delays, partly to go some way towards covering the costs of the TOC whose train has been delayed (compensating passengers, possibly staff overtime, taxi costs, that sort of thing) and partly as an incentive to all involved to minimise delays. The same would apply nowadays, I'm sure, even in a nationalised industry. Attributing delays also helps to identify trends - a routine possession that regularly overruns, or a single train that regularly loses a few minutes somewhere and causes bigger problems later on, for example - so that appropriate action can be taken. Whether the delay attribution regime has gone too far, with undesirable consequences, is open for discussion, of course!

 

[infobleep]

I love your optimism! There are codes (Z-codes) for unexplained delay minutes - usually 'sub-threshold' delays, I think. I understand that these are paid for somehow, but possibly split between NR and the TOC so that, ultimately, no money changes hands?

In such a fragmented industry, I suppose it's important that there's some sort of compensation for delays, partly to go some way towards covering the costs of the TOC whose train has been delayed (compensating passengers, possibly staff overtime, taxi costs, that sort of thing) and partly as an incentive to all involved to minimise delays. The same would apply nowadays, I'm sure, even in a nationalised industry. Attributing delays also helps to identify trends - a routine possession that regularly overruns, or a single train that regularly loses a few minutes somewhere and causes bigger problems later on, for example - so that appropriate action can be taken. Whether the delay attribution regime has gone too far, with undesirable consequences, is open for discussion, of course!

Well South West Trains and Network Rail no longer pay one another and I'm sure they are not trying to cover up the reasons for delays or not bother to work out why delays may be occurring on a regular basis.

Whether all other rail companies could work like this I don't know.

 

[CalderRail]

I don't think Northern Rail bother announcing the reason for any delay shorter than 5 minutes to its customers. Too frequent for them to give a damn, I suspect.

The standard Northern announcement for someone being hit by a train is "Due to Trespass on the line"

 

[Tomnick]

Well South West Trains and Network Rail no longer pay one another and I'm sure they are not trying to cover up the reasons for delays or not bother to work out why delays may be occurring on a regular basis.

Whether all other rail companies could work like this I don't know.

Indeed, the delays are still investigated and attributed as they would be anywhere else though. Does anyone know exactly how this arrangement works, though? Is it as simple as the responsible manager (to whom the delay minutes have been attributed) not having to pay for minutes incurred by the 'alliance' TOC, or do the payments go somewhere else?

 

[Parallel]

I don't think Northern Rail bother announcing the reason for any delay shorter than 5 minutes to its customers. Too frequent for them to give a damn, I suspect.

The standard Northern announcement for someone being hit by a train is "Due to Trespass on the line"

I don't think many TOCs do - I know SWT, FGW and ATW generally don't announce delays at stations that are less than 5 mins late.

At FGW stations, the announcement for someone being hit by a train is literally "Due to a person hit by a train."

 

[Mugby]

When I made the original post, I omitted to mention that the 11.53 from Derby to Southampton on that day arrived in Derby at 12.15. Meanwhile, the 12.10 all stations XC service to Birmingham was being held in the opposite platform, obviously to allow the non stop delayed service to go first. The boards just said 'Delayed'

I wonder if it was announced at all: 'This service is being delayed to allow a faster service to go in front'?

 

[al.currie93]

The best one I ever heard was while waiting at Three Bridges for a train to Horsham. An automated announcement came up saying "Southern are sorry to announce that the (SOME TIME I CAN'T REMEMBER) service to (SOME PLACE I CAN'T REMEMBER) is delayed due to... an unidentified incident that is currently being investigated."

They basically said "We don't know where our train is or what has happened to it, but it won't be here when we expected it to be..."

It did make me laugh!

 

[thelongestroad]

is delayed due to... an unidentified incident that is currently being investigated."

In my experience they use that excuse if they don't want to give the real reason or if the reason is so specific there isn't an announcement for it.

 

[sarahj]

In my experience they use that excuse if they don't want to give the real reason or if the reason is so specific there isn't an announcement for it.

Its, normally given out when they dont know the reason. If one train is late and the on board staff have not told anyone why. Eg, there might be an issue on the train, it was hoped to be fixed, but its not happening. The next thing you know your 5 mins down. When your dealing with an issue, you then have to remember to call control and tell em why. until that time your a train delayed for an unknown reason.

 

[CyrusWuff]

"A problem currently under investigation" covers a multitude of sins, such as:

• Scheduling error - Trying to run a train through the middle of a possession is not a way to make friends with P.Way and S&T
• Rostering error
• Diagram error - That one train a week which is off-pattern
• Other human error

 

[D1009]

FGW are quite fond of "congestion caused by earlier delays" (in their announcements, that is).

 

[PMN1]

BBC Travel news re ATW currently showing "Disruption between Hereford and Abergavenny due to delays" Journey Check reports "Safety checks".

This one it turns out was a report of a person being hit by a train....later turned out to be a case of trespass.

Still, it brought out 4 police cars, 3 ambulances and the air ambulance ...which found the guy trespassing.

According to the local press, the chief inspector said this would be 'the standard response to a person on the line'.

 

[billio]

I remember many years ago the announcers at Paddington had a marked sense of humour. Arriving late from Oxford one morning the excuse for this was "we had been travelling on the slow line". Doh ...

 

[edwin_m]

I remember many years ago the announcers at Paddington had a marked sense of humour. Arriving late from Oxford one morning the excuse for this was "we had been travelling on the slow line". Doh ...

"Relief Line" surely? Obviously not a real Western man...

 

[PermitToTravel]

I've occasionally heard TMs announcing something along the lines of "We're on the relief lines from now on so will be in Paddington 20 minutes late", resulting in a lot of bemused looking passengers. Slow line is a great improvement.

To say nothing of the HEx announcement "There's a problem with the, uh, what do you call it, the down relief line, I think."
Well, technically correct.....

 

[Tom B]

I've occasionally heard TMs announcing something along the lines of "We're on the relief lines from now on so will be in Paddington 20 minutes late", resulting in a lot of bemused looking passengers. Slow line is a great improvement.

To say nothing of the HEx announcement "There's a problem with the, uh, what do you call it, the down relief line, I think."
Well, technically correct.....

Likewise, "We're blocking back to X" - said with no further explanation. It makes perfect sense if you know what it means and I suppose it's a normal thing for a guard to say.

 

[LowLevel]

Having become somewhat desensitised to the whole affair, while wishing to remain respectful, I always announce a person having been hit by a train as exactly that. It stops people from wanting to ask questions about what exactly the 'incident' is and lets me get on with what I need to do - going through the train to count passengers for destinations, checking if there's anyone for whom prolonged delay may be an issue (diabetics etc), liaising with the driver and control and generally trying to be as helpful as possible. I also announce in a polite manner not to bother stopping me to ask how long we will be as I don't know, but feel free to stop me for anything else, connections, to borrow my phone etc.

 

[Flamingo]

Having become somewhat desensitised to the whole affair, while wishing to remain respectful, I always announce a person having been hit by a train as exactly that. It stops people from wanting to ask questions about what exactly the 'incident' is and lets me get on with what I need to do - going through the train to count passengers for destinations, checking if there's anyone for whom prolonged delay may be an issue (diabetics etc), liaising with the driver and control and generally trying to be as helpful as possible. I also announce in a polite manner not to bother stopping me to ask how long we will be as I don't know, but feel free to stop me for anything else, connections, to borrow my phone etc.

Sounds exactly how I do it as well - "Any questions beginning "How long... ?" or "What time... ?", the answer is I don't know"...

 

[A-driver]

Sounds exactly how I do it as well - "Any questions beginning "How long... ?" or "What time... ?", the answer is I don't know"...

Do you really find that works though? I was waiting to leave kings x the other day already 45mins late due to a massive signal Failiure at Stevenage. 3 punters came up to the cab and asked if this was definitely the next train to leave for Hitchin. I said I didn't know. They asked if it was likely to be. I said it most probably was but I wouldn't know for sure until I got the road. They asked when we would leave. I again said I don't know. They asked if it would be in the next five minutes. I said I didn't know. They asked if they would be quicker getting the TL to Luton instead...and this went on.

I was very polite about it but you do get people who assume that because you work there you must be in full control of the situation and able to provide all the answers! At that moment in time there were trains stacking up all over the place and stock/crews out of position and so it was a case of waiting for a decision to be made as to what ran when.

 

[wensley]

Do you really find that works though? I was waiting to leave kings x the other day already 45mins late due to a massive signal Failiure at Stevenage. 3 punters came up to the cab and asked if this was definitely the next train to leave for Hitchin. I said I didn't know. They asked if it was likely to be. I said it most probably was but I wouldn't know for sure until I got the road. They asked when we would leave. I again said I don't know. They asked if it would be in the next five minutes. I said I didn't know. They asked if they would be quicker getting the TL to Luton instead...and this went on.

I was very polite about it but you do get people who assume that because you work there you must be in full control of the situation and able to provide all the answers! At that moment in time there were trains stacking up all over the place and stock/crews out of position and so it was a case of waiting for a decision to be made as to what ran when.

You always get a few like that! However, generally I've found that if you're honest, explain things a bit and hold your hands up when you don't know people tend to be fairly understanding. Depending on what the delay is having a chat about what's going on is often a good way to pass the time and keep them on-side

The one that got me the other week was on a train diverted via the GNGE Joint Line during engineering works was when a passenger was determined she was going to be 90mins late at destination, and would not have it that this was shown in the timetable! Meanwhile another thought we were running via Cardiff

 

[A-driver]

You always get a few like that! However, generally I've found that if you're honest, explain things a bit and hold your hands up when you don't know people tend to be fairly understanding. Depending on what the delay is having a chat about what's going on is often a good way to pass the time and keep them on-side



The one that got me the other week was on a train diverted via the GNGE Joint Line during engineering works was when a passenger was determined she was going to be 90mins late at destination, and would not have it that this was shown in the timetable! Meanwhile another thought we were running via Cardiff

I've had tht with timetable alterations to. Single line working Barnet to Finsbury Park last year saw trains running 30mins longer than usual. This was timetabled and displayed on posters etc.

I had punters having a go at me at kings cross for not apologising for delays despite announcing what we were doing with the shunts at Barnet and despite the fact that I was actually 5mins early in the end.

 

[infobleep]

"A problem currently under investigation" covers a multitude of sins, such as:

• Scheduling error - Trying to run a train through the middle of a possession is not a way to make friends with P.Way and S&T
• Rostering error
• Diagram error - That one train a week which is off-pattern
• Other human error

I was once on a train that was sent down a line that was closed. I can't remember if we should have been on an adjacent line but perhaps so. Either way they had to let us through.

Thankfully they could.

 

[louis97]

Does anyone know when SWT are due to come on board? Overall they do OK as it is, which shows no matter how good the system is, it needs staff and management to use it right. I say management whilst thinking of Southern and Thameslink and their what appears to be lack of interest in communications during disruptions.

ATW are now connected, SWT should be coming on board over the next month, as should TPE and LO. They all have a CIS system that was originally not compatible with Darwin and therefore a method is being created to allow them to work with Darwin.

 

[infobleep]

ATW are now connected, SWT should be coming on board over the next month, as should TPE and LO. They all have a CIS system that was originally not compatible with Darwin and therefore a method is being created to allow them to work with Darwin.

That's great. I assume it was cheaper and better to create a translation between systems rather than creating a new system.