Railways Perks & Pension

[Hydro]

Besides the system of those before 97 having free travel those after not, is in my view both discriminatory and illegal.

The first thing someone asks me when I say I work on the railway is "That must be cool, all that free rail travel!". Just about everyone is astounded that I don't receive any travel perks.

 

[strange6]

The first thing someone asks me when I say I work on the railway is "That must be cool, all that free rail travel!". Just about everyone is astounded that I don't receive any travel perks.

You must me somebody that works hard then!

 

[CNX]

Besides the system of those before 97 having free travel those after not, is in my view both discriminatory and illegal.

More like sour grapes. If it was illegal it would have been challenged at the time by the unions. Its no different to closing final salary pension schemes to new entrants.

Like it or not, the industry is no longer one big happy family. The days of a job for life, with generous travel perks and a top notch pension scheme are gone for good.

 

[First class]

More like sour grapes. If it was illegal it would have been challenged at the rime by the unions. Its no different to closing final salary pension schemes to new entrants.

Like it or not, the industry is no longer one big happy family. The days of a job for life, with generous travel perks and a top notch pension scheme are gone for good.

I disagree that it can't be a job for life any more.

Plenty of staff still about who started after BR with a good few years in and won't be going anywhere soon. The rail industry is still able to offer a lifetime job. The staff just have to have the mental capacity to cope with the stress, shifts and general cr*p that you are exposed to from both other "colleagues" and the public. If you do your time in the hard jobs, promotion won't be far away.

The decent pension is still available, (40/60 contributions in my scheme), with good travel facilities, although could be improved. Free travel in Europe for all, 75% at home and free travel on my own operator- still very comprehensive!

 

[CNX]

I disagree that it can't be a job for life any more.

Plenty of staff still about who started after BR with a good few years in and won't be going anywhere soon. The rail industry is still able to offer a lifetime job. The staff just have to have the mental capacity to cope with the stress, shifts and general cr*p that you are exposed to from both other "colleagues" and the public. If you do your time in the hard jobs, promotion won't be far away.

The decent pension is still available, (40/60 contributions in my scheme), with good travel facilities, although could be improved. Free travel in Europe for all, 75% at home and free travel on my own operator- still very comprehensive!

There will always be those who will want to work to retirement in the industry because they know nothing else. I was referring to BR days, when there were no compulsory redundancies, provided you were prepared to relocate and re-train if neccessary. Their re-location package was very generous; that I know from my own experience. There's far less scope for that in todays fragmented industry. If a TOC pushes through an extensive reduction in booking office hours, and therefore staff, their is far less scope for them to be accommodated in the same TOC, wheras there was in BR days.

As several other contributors have said, the gold plated pensions schemes that the industry currently offers are on borrowed time. It will probably be OK for current members, but there will come a day when new entrants will find the need to fund their own pension pot as final salary schemes are closed down.

The European free and reduced rate travel concession is a continuation of the FIP arrangement with the other European administrations that BR was part of. I presume that TOC's have an obligation to continue this as part of the safeguarded travel facilities section of the railway privatisation legislation.

 

[1V53]

The perk of priv discount on most preserved railways was only alluded to in passing in an earlier post, re preserved (ex BR) staff. However, just to clarify, this is available to ATOC priv holders (ie new entrants) too.

 

[Scotrail84]

Don't forget if you work for First you get free travel all weekend on East Coast by just flashing your pass. Can also upgrade to 1st class for £15 (most guards won't charge as long as you show some courtesy & speak to them first & not presume you can sit in there).

Sorry mate the above statement is absolute pish. Try that and you will be charged full fare and maybe even reported for fraud.

Where did you get this info from because its wrong.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Oh right so the 7 times I've travelled to Glasgow & Inverness in the last few months are pish? Hmmmmmm

Think you need to do your homework mate. Just rang the FCC guy who deals with passes & priv replacements etc & has confirmed what I already knew. Its a goer.

 

[Scotrail84]

Oh right so the 7 times I've travelled to Glasgow & Inverness in the last few months are pish? Hmmmmmm

Think you need to do your homework mate. Just rang the FCC guy who deals with passes & priv replacements etc & has confirmed what I already knew. Its a goer.

Tell me where this is stated in the conditions of (non safeguarded) staff travel cards then because it's not on mine or any other first workers that i know? Nor have i seen any notices informing members of staff that these changes have made.

Does your FCC source work for atoc because it's atoc in London that deal with rail staff travel.

 

[ItchyRsole]

I know its a travel benefit we have so nothing for me to look for, that's for you to get on with.

As I've said 7 journeys in the last few months from London to Glasgow, Inverness & Newcastle. Next up Doncaster in 2 weeks. Soon as you show your FCC pass its a smile & a nod of the head & the occasional chat. Why would it be this way if it wasn't allowed?

As I say make your own enquiries mate. I'm happy enjoying the benefits I am entitled to.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I know its a travel benefit we have so nothing for me to look for, that's for you to get on with.

As I've said 7 journeys in the last few months from London to Glasgow, Inverness & Newcastle. Next up Doncaster in 2 weeks. Soon as you show your FCC pass its a frown & a shake of the head & the occasional Penalty Fare. Why would it be this way if it was allowed?

As I say make your own enquiries mate. I'm happy enjoying the benefits I am entitled to.

There we are

 

[Fred26]

It's a mutual agreement between FCC and East Coast and nothing to do with ATOC. I believe it was during NXs time that the agreement was made. FCC staff get free, unlimited travel on the East Coast network on the weekend and East Coast staff get free unlimited travel on the FCC network at the weekend. There's also some weekday free travel, but that's for travel to work. FCC staff clearly have the better of that agreement.

I don't know anything about upgrading to first class within the agreement.

FCC publicise this perk to their staff on their internal website.

 

[Yew]

More like sour grapes. If it was illegal it would have been challenged at the time by the unions. Its no different to closing final salary pension schemes to new entrants.

Like it or not, the industry is no longer one big happy family. The days of a job for life, with generous travel perks and a top notch pension scheme are gone for good.

Those unions that all members already have free rail travel (or more rail trsavel) Im sure they would object to new members getting nothing, so they can keep theirs (as opposed a reduction to pay for the new guys?) or other measures (no pay rises or similar)

 

[ItchyRsole]

It's a mutual agreement between FCC and East Coast and nothing to do with ATOC. I believe it was during NXs time that the agreement was made. FCC staff get free, unlimited travel on the East Coast network on the weekend and East Coast staff get free unlimited travel on the FCC network at the weekend. There's also some weekday free travel, but that's for travel to work. FCC staff clearly have the better of that agreement.

I don't know anything about upgrading to first class within the agreement.

FCC publicise this perk to their staff on their internal website.

And there we have it.

Yes mate you can upgrade to 1st class for £15. Well worth it for a bit of comfort & a plug socket for the ol dog n bone.

 

[First class]

Although I don't work for FCC, I (did) happen to know someone who did. (He used to get vouchers that allowed me to travel with him!)

The agreement is/was free residential travel to/from their home station using NXEC/EC services, (not sure if it was just up to Peterborough though), but at the weekend, FCC/EC staff have unlimited use each others' services. It is a reciprocal agreement and is outside the scope of ATOC. You need your First Capital Connect Staff Card. I believe you are allowed to sit in First Class midweek if you hold a First Class pass. Anyone at weekends can pay the Weekend First supplement, including ALL staff travellers.

I am not aware that it applies to any other First Group company, however.

 

[Scotrail84]

And there we have it.

Yes mate you can upgrade to 1st class for £15. Well worth it for a bit of comfort & a plug socket for the ol dog n bone.

To bring you back to your original post ItchyRsole. You say that if you work for FIRSTtou get free travel on EC at weekends and upgrades etc. That is clearly not the case. Only FCC staff it appears get this facility so your statement was wrong to begin with.

If i tried that using my first passes id probably be facing a firing squad.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Yes your right.

Sorry.

On the bright side loads of free travel for me!

 

[supervalkoinen]

As a railway outsider, I wonder what the tax situation is with all the benefits mentioned in this thread.
Pension schemes are clearly covered in general employment benefits.
What about free / reduced travel perks?

 

[CNX]

As a railway outsider, I wonder what the tax situation is with all the benefits mentioned in this thread.
Pension schemes are clearly covered in general employment benefits.
What about free / reduced travel perks?

When I worked in the industry, the priciples were that if there was no cost to the employer of providing the perk then there was no tax liability for the staff. BR argued that quite well on behalf of its employees, pushing the point that, in terms of extra trains run, the cost was zero. Staff were taxed a nominal £10 on their facilitles, and that was in relation to the unavoidable administrative costs incurred. I believe the same principles apply to TOC's today, and to staff perks generally.

However, from what other posters on this forum have said on previous threads, in the case of employers who do not operate passenger services, actually pay ATOC for their employees travel facilities and enter the costs in their books as a tax deductable expense, the staff concerned are taxed on the amount as a benefit in kind. I've seen the annual sum of £800 branded about, but perhaps someone can confirm this.

 

[First class]

The TOCs aren't paying for it as a benefit. It is an administrative fee, (nowhere near £800!) per TOC.

 

[CNX]

The TOCs aren't paying for it as a benefit. It is an administrative fee, (nowhere near £800!) per TOC.

If you read the second paragraph of my post carefully, you will see that I was referring to what non ATOC employers pay ATOC for their staff to continue to get concessionary travel facilities, not to staff of ATOC companies themselves. A member of this forum said he was taxed on the sum of £800 for such travel facilities.

 

[First class]

If you read the second paragraph of my post carefully, you will see that I was referring to what non ATOC employers pay ATOC for their staff to continue to get concessionary travel facilities, not to staff of ATOC companies themselves. A member of this forum said he was taxed on the sum of £800 for such travel facilities.

Yeah, even still it's not £800!

I imagine that is the amount HMRC estimate the benefit to be worth to the user on average.

 

[Marklund]

The taxable benefit to Safeguarded Network Rail Staff is about £800, so costs about £200 a year, hence I'm paying for my "free" pass.

Those that don't have them is a scandal, but they are then "paid" £200 a year more than I am, and when they joined, they knew the score.

Would never give it up, however little I actually use it these days.

 

[CNX]

The taxable benefit to Safeguarded Network Rail Staff is about £800, so costs about £200 a year, hence I'm paying for my "free" pass.

Those that don't have them is a scandal, but they are then "paid" £200 a year more than I am, and when they joined, they knew the score.

Would never give it up, however little I actually use it these days.

Thanks for confirming the £800 taxable benefit figure. Perhaps you were the member who quoted it on this forum a few months ago.

It is a very valuable perk for those able to make extensive use of it.

 

[Marklund]

Thanks for confirming the £800 taxable benefit figure. Perhaps you were the member who quoted it on this forum a few months ago.

It is a very valuable perk for those able to make extensive use of it.

Sorry, It wasn't me, and I've checked the P11D Benefits in Kind statement.
It's valued as roughly £570. Apologies for the previous incorrect information.

And yes, it's very valuable, as I've had to use it at very short notice, where the walk up return fare was more than the tax paid for the year.

 

[CNX]

Sorry, It wasn't me, and I've checked the P11D Benefits in Kind statement.
It's valued as roughly £570. Apologies for the previous incorrect information.

And yes, it's very valuable, as I've had to use it at very short notice, where the walk up return fare was more than the tax paid for the year.

As restrictions on the use of privs and passes are minimal, being able to use almost any train really does make ex BR safeguarded facilities gold plated. With walk on anytime fares now in orbit, especially on the Inter City routes, its not difficult for even those who use them less than the average to easily recoup the extra tax paid.

 

[First class]

As restrictions on the use of privs and passes are minimal, being able to use almost any train really does make ex BR safeguarded facilities gold plated. With walk on anytime fares now in orbit, especially on the Inter City routes, its not difficult for even those who use them less than the average to easily recoup the extra tax paid.

Unfortunately now, some PRIV Anytime fares are now so high, the difference between public/staff fares is almost minimal.

Liverpool-Euston £65.25 PRIV
Liverpool-Euston £70.00 Public Off Peak
Liverpool-Euston £46.20 Railcard (valid any time)

 

[CNX]

Unfortunately now, some PRIV Anytime fares are now so high, the difference between public/staff fares is almost minimal.

Liverpool-Euston £65.25 PRIV
Liverpool-Euston £70.00 Public Off Peak
Liverpool-Euston £46.20 Railcard (valid any time)

I had the free element of travel facilities particularly in mind, and their value in relation to anytime walk on fares.

I've no idea what priv tickets cost in relation to the various public fares as its god knows how many years since I last bought one; certainly not this century.

Are there such thinks as priv off peak fares, or are they all calculated on the full public walk on anytime fare?

 

[Caped Crusader]

I had the free element of travel facilities particularly in mind, and their value in relation to anytime walk on fares.

I've no idea what priv tickets cost in relation to the various public fares as its god knows how many years since I last bought one; certainly not this century.

Are there such thinks as priv off peak fares, or are they all calculated on the full public walk on anytime fare?

Priv rates are only available on Anytime Singles or Returns regardless of time of travel.

The exception is on the sleepers where there is a priv rate ticket for the sleeper only, including a berth. On the Scottish sleepers there are 2 prices depending on availabilty.

Priv rates are also available on some rangers and rovers.

 

[CNX]

Priv rates are only available on Anytime Singles or Returns regardless of time of travel.

The exception is on the sleepers where there is a priv rate ticket for the sleeper only, including a berth. On the Scottish sleepers there are 2 prices depending on availabilty.

Priv rates are also available on some rangers and rovers.

Not very attractive when you consider the selection of savers and cheap advance purchase tickets available to normal fare paying punters. Nor does it encourage priv ticket holders to travel off peak.

The Caledonian Sleeper staff fares are very good value for money, especially as there is no need to date a travel card box.