Railway Tall Tales and Folklore

[Mcr Warrior]

Your published source?

No idea I'm afraid, it's just one of those things that pops up. I first encountered it in the 80s when the S&C closure plans were big news and got me reading up about the history of it, and ever since then I've occasionally come across it being repeated in random places and thought "oh yeah, that one again".

Don't worry. You weren't imagining it and I've found a reference. The story about a railwayman supposedly being blown off a train on Ribblehead viaduct only to be sucked through an arch and back up on to the train on the other side, is certainly mentioned in "The Line that Refused to Die" by Stan Abbott and Alan Whitehouse (1990).

To be fair, the book authors do then go on to suggest that the story stretches one's credulity! Quite!

 

[Ashley Hill]

I think the hat variant of the windy viaduct story also appeared in the book Ganger,Guard & Signalman by Dick Fawcett which I read some years ago. I’m sure it also mentioned the spinning turntable too.

 

[Gloster]

I think that the stories about the hat/person and the turntable go back a lot further, probably the 1950s or earlier, because I can remember reading them as a child and they were obviously not new then. Probably a tall story told by a railwayman to a railway journalist, who repeated it (possibly tongue in cheek), and after that it gained legs and ran and ran...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Probably a tall story told by a railwayman to a railway journalist, who repeated it (possibly tongue in cheek), and after that it gained legs and ran and ran...

I've found another claim to a person being blown off the top (of the Ribblehead Viaduct), through an arch and back onto the viaduct again.

This is referenced in "Riding the Settle & Carlisle" by David Mather (2011).

Not a railwayman on a train, though, as this time the hapless individual supposedly doing an involuntary 'loop de loop' is said to have been a navvy!

 

[Calthrop]

"Short and sweet" -- if in the black-humour bracket... one gathers that the 3ft. gauge Tralee & Dingle Railway: what with its being engineered and built "on the cheap", with alarming curves and gradients; and being run in its pre-1925 independent days, in a rather casual fashion; had in those times, a deplorable safety record. Hence the saying on the T & D: "There was one driver who never killed a man".

 

[Western 52]

Another of my grandfather's tales, this one maybe not too far from reality. During the war he drove coal trains through the long and poorly ventilated Rhondda Tunnel. Fumes for the crew on a second loco or banking engine were terrible. Apparently the crew on these engines would take a wet towel to work, and would get down low on the footplate with it wrapped round their heads. He didn't say how they then controlled the loco! Imagine that happening today with modern health and safety!

 

[Gloster]

The same problem seems to have been common in Combe Down Tunnel on the Somerset & Dorset near Bath, and no doubt in other small single-track tunnels with gradients and heavy traffic. In 1929 there was an accident in Bath when a train ran away after the crew were overcome by fumes.

 

[6Gman]

The same problem seems to have been common in Combe Down Tunnel on the Somerset & Dorset near Bath, and no doubt in other small single-track tunnels with gradients and heavy traffic. In 1929 there was an accident in Bath when a train ran away after the crew were overcome by fumes.

I think there were quite a few tunnels where this was a problem. Definitely not a "tall tale".

 

[181]

Wikipedia says this of the original main line across the Apennines in Italy: 'Teams of drivers were stationed on horseback at the exit of the main tunnels, ready to jump on the trains as it crept up from Pistoia in order to take over from semi-asphyxiated drivers if necessary.', and the Italian version, in so fas as i understand it, appears to say much the same thing ('Si arrivò a predisporre delle squadre di macchinisti a cavallo appostati all'uscita delle principali gallerie, pronti a saltare sui treni che arrancavano salendo da Pistoia per rilevare i colleghi semi-asfissiati.', but no source is cited, and it sounds rather unlikely to me.

 

[D6968]

I was told a story (some years ago admittedly) about somewhere on the GW about footplate crews having a slash in the firebox if they thought the footplate crew on the rear assisting loco weren’t up to the job? Something to do with it giving an horrible ammonia like smell, I think it could have been somewhere like Ledbury?
No idea if there’s any truth in this one.

 

[Pigeon]

I've heard of that one somewhere on the steeply-graded coal routes in South Wales. Not really convinced that the smell would be that powerful. Simple enough experiment, of course, but not one I've ever got round to.

Lying on the cab floor with some kind of wet rag as a makeshift gas mask was indeed common, and the answer to "how did they control the loco" is often "they didn't". Let it get on with things by itself as far as possible and concentrate on breathing. No way to see anything inside the tunnel anyway, nothing to see, and it'd probably be going about walking speed, so that aspect wasn't too serious; the important bit was to still be conscious when you got out.

 

[Spartacus]

Another of my grandfather's tales, this one maybe not too far from reality. During the war he drove coal trains through the long and poorly ventilated Rhondda Tunnel. Fumes for the crew on a second loco or banking engine were terrible. Apparently the crew on these engines would take a wet towel to work, and would get down low on the footplate with it wrapped round their heads. He didn't say how they then controlled the loco! Imagine that happening today with modern health and safety!

A wet hanky tied over the mouth and nose is a time honoured method. The LNER's U1 was fitted with masks which vented to near rail level to try get over the problem, it was a particularly bad loco for it, always used as a banker, frequently through narrow tunnels, and often as the third and rear loco on the train. Many crews still preferred a wet hanky though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2022 ==

I was told a story (some years ago admittedly) about somewhere on the GW about footplate crews having a slash in the firebox if they thought the footplate crew on the rear assisting loco weren’t up to the job? Something to do with it giving an horrible ammonia like smell, I think it could have been somewhere like Ledbury?
No idea if there’s any truth in this one.

I've read about a similar method being used in Gildersome tunnel out of Leeds, so I expect there's truth in it. They didn't pee directly into the firebox though, they peed on a shovel with coal dust and threw it in. Aside from it giving a more concentrated 'blast' rather than a steady stream, I can't really imagine pointing my john thomas at the blazing hot firehole door, it's bad enough sometimes getting scorched hand and wrist hairs, and the rocking of the loco would probably mean you'd miss with half even if you did brave a singeing!

 

[Ashley Hill]

A wet hanky tied over the mouth and nose is a time honoured method. The LNER's U1 was fitted with masks which vented to near rail level to try get over the problem, it was a particularly bad loco for it, always used as a banker, frequently through narrow tunnels, and often as the third and rear loco on the train. Many crews still preferred a wet hanky though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2022 ==



I've read about a similar method being used in Gildersome tunnel out of Leeds, so I expect there's truth in it. They didn't pee directly into the firebox though, they peed on a shovel with coal dust and threw it in. Aside from it giving a more concentrated 'blast' rather than a steady stream, I can't really imagine pointing my john thomas at the blazing hot firehole door, it's bad enough sometimes getting scorched hand and wrist hairs, and the rocking of the loco would probably mean you'd miss with half even if you did brave a singeing!

Plus the consequences of any blow backs!!!

 

[contrex]

Wikipedia says this of the original main line across the Apennines in Italy: 'Teams of drivers were stationed on horseback at the exit of the main tunnels, ready to jump on the trains as it crept up from Pistoia in order to take over from semi-asphyxiated drivers if necessary.', and the Italian version, in so fas as i understand it, appears to say much the same thing ('Si arrivò a predisporre delle squadre di macchinisti a cavallo appostati all'uscita delle principali gallerie, pronti a saltare sui treni che arrancavano salendo da Pistoia per rilevare i colleghi semi-asfissiati.', but no source is cited, and it sounds rather unlikely to me.

In March 1944 a total of 517 people (official figure) died of carbon monoxide poisoning on a train during a protracted stall in a tunnel near Balvano.

 

[Calthrop]

In March 1944 a total of 517 people (official figure) died of carbon monoxide poisoning on a train during a protracted stall in a tunnel near Balvano.

I heard of that happening, a good many years ago -- recounted by a relative (who was not actually a railway enthusiast). Per the account of the unhappy event, as he had heard it: the disaster was contributed to, by the loco's coal having been vile, very-low-grade stuff imported from Yugoslavia !

 

[181]

In March 1944 a total of 517 people (official figure) died of carbon monoxide poisoning on a train during a protracted stall in a tunnel near Balvano.

More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balvano_train_disaster

 

[Pigeon]

A wet hanky tied over the mouth and nose is a time honoured method. The LNER's U1 was fitted with masks which vented to near rail level to try get over the problem, it was a particularly bad loco for it, always used as a banker, frequently through narrow tunnels, and often as the third and rear loco on the train. Many crews still preferred a wet hanky though.

Some American locos had hoods fed from oxygen bottles to cope with extra long tunnels further extended by long snowsheds on the ends.

 

[Strathclyder]

Some American locos had hoods fed from oxygen bottles to cope with extra long tunnels further extended by long snowsheds on the ends.

And in the case of the Southern Pacific - who ran through the Sierra Nevada mountain range and the 39 long tunnels plus roughly 40 miles worth of snow sheds there-in which nearly asphyxiated several crews and which led to other problems when running conventional locos tender-first to avoid choking the crews out - they flipped the locomotive itself, barring the tender, around 180 degrees so that the cab was leading, hence the name Cab-Forward.


(Southern Pacific 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward #4247 (AC-11) southbound between Sage Hen and Madeline, California near the Modoc National Forest with freight #553 on February 2nd, 1956. Photo by John Hungerford)

This layout was made possible by the locos being oil-fired from the outset, with both oil and water tanks being pressurized so that no issues with maintaining flow were encountered even on uphill gradients. They weren't without their flaws though, as this piece on Wikipedia (I know I know) summarizes (the Interstate Commerce Comission report - a PDF file FYI - on the accident quoted here attached below):

One problematic aspect of the design, however, was the routing of the oil lines; because the firebox was located ahead of the driving wheels (instead of behind them, the usual practice), oil leaks could cause the wheels to slip. A nuisance under most conditions, it resulted in at least one fatal accident. This occurred in 1941 when a cab-forward with leaking steam entered the tunnel at Santa Susana Pass, near Los Angeles. The tunnel was on a grade, and as the slow-moving train ascended the tunnel, water on the rails from a leaking cylinder cock caused the wheels to slip and spin. The train slipped backward and a coupler knuckle broke, separating the air line, causing an emergency brake application and stalling the train in a tunnel that was rapidly filling with exhaust fumes and steam. The oil dripping on the ties then ignited beneath the cab, killing the crew.

Of course, the SP weren't the only railway to operate this kind of locomotive, but they were by far the most notable with 17 distinct variants across a total of 4 different wheel arrangements making for a total of 256 locomotives.