Railway Myths (2013)

[Starmill]

Can't remember if I've mythbusted the Metrolink thread. If I have, it's clearly not gone in!

Myth: Metrolink's M5000 trams have Air Conditioning in the passenger areas.
Myth: Metrolink's speed signs are in Kilometres per hour!

 

[swt_passenger]

Can I mention the myth that there are loads of 508s sitting in Eastleigh...

 

[455driver]

Can I mention the myth that there are loads of 508s sitting in Eastleigh...

Thers still a few, well until the bits are loaded into the back of the lorries to take them away!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Myth: Metrolink's speed signs are in Kilometres per hour!

If they're not in km/h, they're non-compliant with TSRGD Diagram 976.

 

[Starmill]

If they're not in km/h, they're non-compliant with TSRGD Diagram 976.

I don't know what that is, but they are definitely in Miles per Hour. I imagine it would be tricky to drive at 5 Km/h too!

 

[TheKnightWho]

I don't know what that is, but they are definitely in Miles per Hour. I imagine it would be tricky to drive at 5 Km/h too!

Are they getting it mixed up with the T&W Metro?

 

[Eagle]

I don't know what that is...

Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (the legislation that defines the signs to be used on the road).

Diagram 976 defines the sign to be used as a speed limit sign for trams as a white diamond-shaped sign with the speed marked in kilometres per hour.

If Metrolink has been installing signs in mph on public roads then those signs, being in contravention to the TSRGD, must be removed as illegal obstructions.

 

[Manchester77]

Metrolink's signs are definitely in MPH
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, in TSRGD it
states that speed limit signs for trams should be in kph, and this is not
the case all of the tramways, for instance Sheffield Supertram and
Manchester Metrolink, who display speed limit signs in mph.

google uk tram speed limits its on of the top results

 

[The Ham]

Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (the legislation that defines the signs to be used on the road).

Diagram 976 defines the sign to be used as a speed limit sign for trams as a white diamond-shaped sign with the speed marked in kilometres per hour.

If Metrolink has been installing signs in mph on public roads then those signs, being in contravention to the TSRGD, must be removed as illegal obstructions.

...unless they have Secretary of State aproval.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Hrm...I wonder if anyone's ever tried giving a "tram" driver a PCN for a moving traffic contravention?

 

[Starmill]

...unless they have Secretary of State approval.

Indeed. I have a feeling that those regulations - which I have heard of - don't allow for even the orange points indicators to be placed on the road, which are perfectly commonplace. We were also having a discussion about non-standard tramway signal aspects, such as a vertical line with the middle dot out which cannot be used on the road without special approval.

While we are on the subject, wasn't it WatcherZero who was saying that the orange flashing lights for pedestrians need special approval in Manchester because they now aren't allowed in new systems elsewhere. I'm also fairly sure WatcherZero gave details of some additional permissions TfGM had gained from the DfT to carry out certain changes to operating procedures without approval from the Transport Secretary, though only some related to signage. Apologies if not, and it might have been on another forum too.

Basically just more paperwork for TfGM to do, which is annoying.

 

[IanD]

Myth 1043: It's entirely obvious what that number is... :/

Obviously somewhere between 1024 and 1068.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To be fair, given that tramway signs are diamond shaped it shouldn't matter whether the speeds are in mph or km/h. If you're driving a car and you think that the diamond signs are for you, you really need to pull over at the first safe opportunity and get on the tram instead- for the safety of other road users!

 

[The Ham]

Obviously somewhere between 1024 and 1068.

if we are up to myth 1066 an it involve Hastings?

 

[Eagle]

if we are up to myth 1066 an it involve Hastings?

Okay then.

Myth 1066: Hastings should have a direct service to St Pancras via Ashford and HS1.

(Aside from the layout of Ashford making that basically impossible anyway, the speeds on the Marshlink line and the circuitousness of the route would make it about the same timewise compared to the current London service via Tunbridge Wells.)

 

[Beveridges]

Myth: Metrolink's M5000 trams have Air Conditioning in the passenger areas.

So they have Air Con in the cab but not the saloons ??

Complete opposite to a 158 which has air con in the saloons not the cabs!

Thank Christ I only Drive them on the Maintenance Depot complex, where getting out for some fresh air is never more than a few minutes away.

 

[Nym]

Quite a lot of new metro stock is like that...
Passengers are on for 20-30mins, driver is all day...

 

[A-driver]

Quite a lot of new metro stock is like that...
Passengers are on for 20-30mins, driver is all day...

Most trains all over are like that (apparently apart from 158s).

All the trains I have ever signed have had cab air con but the only unit I have signed with saloon AC is 377s. Most older units have had cab AC retrofitted.

But it is, as you say, because we can be stuck in the cab for 7 hours a day with little choice but get in that cab. Passengers arnt on the trains for as long and have a choice weather to get on or not and can get off mid journey if really needed. Plus it's not as much of a problem if a passenger falls asleep in the heat as if a driver does.

 

[Beveridges]

All of northerns fleet (except the 333s and maybe 321s???) have not got air con in the cabs, when are they going to bother doing anything about it, it can be hot and heavy work shunting a 142 around in the daytime and prepping it as well.

 

[Eagle]

Myth: There's a place in Dunbartonshire called Singer.

 

[Temple Meads]

Myth 458/5: You can't make the Class 458 any uglier.

 

[Starmill]

Yep, re the M5000s. The driver has a temperature to set in the cab I believe. However, despite having body mounted cameras and cab climate control, they always open the windows (well, very often, and almost always when dry).

I guess its just a 'train drivers thing' - think I'd enjoy having an open window too.

There is air in the saloon, as in fans, but its not chilled.

 

[yorksrob]

Myth 158:

If the door on a 158/159 loo opens an inch then stops, the toilet is out of order (and cannot be accessed by giving the said door a gentle nudge in the right direction !)

 

[Trog]

Myth W6A The Great Central was built to the Berne Gauge.

 

[tbtc]

Myth: There's a place in Dunbartonshire called Singer.

It's on the other side of the Clyde to "eyebeeyem", y'know, that place at the back of Greenock?

 

[ert47]

Myth 13: Never trust timetables and assume that you know best. Fast non-stopping trains NEVER take 13 minutes to get from London Victoria to Clapham Junction.

 

[341o2]

Myth #6 - It's a height limit in Ryde Tunnel that forces the use of tube stock.

While it would prevent some types of mainland rolling stock, the main constraint has always been on carriage length - sharp curves prevent the use of 20m vehicles.

Chris

I believe there was a proposal to replace the 02's with more modern steam locomotives - was it the Ivatt "Mickey Mouses" which were so popular on former Southern branch lines with modifications to negotiate the curves, but the tube stock was avaliable. One of the reasons for this choice was the deliberate raising of tracks through Ryde tunnels as they were prone to flooding.

Has this one been mentioned - noone uses the Lymington branch

 

[Nym]

I believe there was a proposal to replace the 02's with more modern steam locomotives - was it the Ivatt "Mickey Mouses" which were so popular on former Southern branch lines with modifications to negotiate the curves, but the tube stock was avaliable. One of the reasons for this choice was the deliberate raising of tracks through Ryde tunnels as they were prone to flooding.

Has this one been mentioned - noone uses the Lymington branch

If that's the case will they really want to be using 1973TS when they look at replacing the 1938TS? Would 1967/72TS not be a better choice?

 

[gnolife]

Myth AWK: Adwick and Ardwick are the same place (On a trip today to Adwick, I had 7 guards that checked my tickets try and claim that a station in Greater Manchester to Ardwick is not valid via Selby. I had 11 guards do ticket checks)

 

[Eagle]

Myth AWK: Adwick and Ardwick are the same place (On a trip today to Adwick, I had 7 guards that checked my tickets try and claim that a station in Greater Manchester to Ardwick is not valid via Selby. I had 11 guards do ticket checks)

The solution to that would be to have the Yorkshire station use its full name of Adwick-le-Street.