Walesevs31
New Member
Does anyone know when each TOC’s rail replacement is up with their current providers and the tender dates?
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Rail replacement contract end dates?
- Thread starter Walesevs31
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RailUK Forums
RJ
Established Member
Transport for Wales’ contract with Transport UK ends on the 31st October 2026, with it going in house from the next day.
TheSmiths82
Member
hOW
How can it go in house, will they operate their own coaches or will they just subcontract to work to local operators? I can't see how they can provide their own vehicles considering the fast area TFW covers.
The planning, management and delivery cost is probably much cheaper if it's undertaken by an employee of the operator.
They can still arrange their own contracts which vehicle / driver suppliers.
Much more cost effective than having to manage a third party contract which will pretty much do the exact same thing as a person in house, who won't be changing a mark up on the planning/ delivery fee.
They can still arrange their own contracts which vehicle / driver suppliers.
Much more cost effective than having to manage a third party contract which will pretty much do the exact same thing as a person in house, who won't be changing a mark up on the planning/ delivery fee.
Western Gaffer
Member
The 'f' being pronounced in the Welsh style presumably?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
TfW already runs the TrawsCymru bus network which contracts scheduled services to a collection of local operators, similar to TfL bus operations I think.
I imagine "in-house" means within the wider TfW operation, not specifically the rail business.
RJ
Established Member
It’s the compilation of driver duties, procurement of bus operators to cover them and presumably the day to day operation and control of the service that has gone in house. They are becoming the aggregator, rather than contracting this service to a solutions provider like Transport UK, Go Ahead Group, Stagecoach Solutions, First Travel Solutions, CMAC etc.
RJ
Established Member
They lay on a replacement bus service for planned closures. For unplanned closures they do sometimes lay buses on but they aren’t always advertised.
It does seem to be increasingly common that a deliberate decision is taken to not advise by any of the usual public channels that a short notice replacement bus is running.
I'm sure there are good reasons for doing so and I won't get into this question here.
I will however say that it also seems common that this information isn't provided even by the station staff in person or privately by social media direct message to a customer. The result is that very few passengers show up and sometimes the bus operators even run empty, or are stood down because they reasonably report that they've looked for passengers and found nobody in need of transport.
I can only speculate as to the direct causes for this, but it seems rather likely that some operators are not only ordering replacement buses that are unadvertised to the general public, but also in effect unadvertised internally. If station staff and the social media desk aren't informed directly that there's a replacement bus, and it isn't available to view publicly anywhere, then they can't reasonably be expected to be aware of it either. Accordingly they will advise customers that road transport isn't in place, at least in the form of a replacement bus, if directly asked. What else could they do?
I would imagine when current franchised TOCs transfer into DFTO operation, their current Rail Replacement contracts get reviewed.
Like the TOCs that are currently or was recently operated by First Group mostly had contracts with First Travel Solutions, which might not be the best value for money especially if the DFTO is planning to award one big contract, rather than each TOC having separate contracts.
Like the TOCs that are currently or was recently operated by First Group mostly had contracts with First Travel Solutions, which might not be the best value for money especially if the DFTO is planning to award one big contract, rather than each TOC having separate contracts.
It is interesting that TfW have come in-house, at the same time that the DfT has gone out with (and awarded) a massive tender for rail replacement services everywhere else, using the private sector.
Winners
Winners
KNN
Member
You don't think First got the best deal for taxpayers then?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There's probably some sense in this because Wales already has a state owned management organisation for bus services (that manages the contracting of Trawscymru) but outside of the biggest cities which have re-regulated their bus networks (or never de-regulated in London's case) England doesn't.
KNN
Member
They have a habit of it, I was being sarcastic, that racket should have been shut down a long time ago. First Customer Contact, First Rail Consultancy, whatever the IT subsidiary is called. They pay themselves to do things for TOCs, it's easier than trying to be good at running trains.
RJ
Established Member
The TOCs have varying internal policies. Most days I get a call to cover erail somewhere or other.
One TOC either calls out buses to cover specific trips, or as standbys to “work to local instruction”
If it’s the former, they are very sharp at getting the trip advertised in the journey planners and they communicate internally with station staff, who tend to be outside with the passengers waiting for the bus to arrive. Control also make sure the bus is tracked and the driver details are known.
If it’s the latter, the trips may or may not be advertised. Sometimes a schedule is rustled up for the emergency standby to run to - these are usually advertised. If it’s left to station staff to decide what to do with the buses then it won’t be advertised.
Another TOC does provide a calling pattern and departure time, but doesn’t advertise the service - usually these trips run empty (unless the bus is loaded up at the first stop) and I get a phone call every so often asking how far I’ve gotten.
Teds
Member
The practice of awarding the rail replacement contract to the in-house company ceased some time ago under pressure from the DfT. Hence the GTR contract moved from Go-Ahead to Transport UK London Bus Ltd who provide the office services for the separate teams who work with 'their' TOC. Most didn't change as far as I know.
There is a notable name absent in the list which is Stagecoach. They used to be quite active in the business.
There is a notable name absent in the list which is Stagecoach. They used to be quite active in the business.
Perhaps Stagecoach didn't bid or they put in a non-compliant bid as they did for the South Western franchise.
Or it could be that the "anything but Stagecoach" mantra still exists in DfT, after Stagecoach made a lot of money in the early days of SWT?