Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[Bumper]

I’d be really interested in anybody’s thoughts or advice on what action to take after this strike announcement. I’m really torn about what to do.

I joined Network Rail 4 years ago and decided to join the RMT as it seemed to be widely recommended by sensible people as the correct decision to make to protect me should anything happen with the company. I’d not been in a unionised industry before, or been a member of a union and so my only exposure to the RMT was Bob Crow and the Tube Strikes from the news.

We’re now clearly in the situation that the membership has overwhelmingly voted for strike action that I believe (possibly erroneously) will be massively counterproductive and lead to a ruinous confrontation with a government who are desperate for a bogeyman to be able to pin things on. Obviously the members want to go on strike and it’s a valid ballot so they shall go on strike. I just can’t see it ending well and my conscience is telling me that it would be wrong to go on strike, both for me personally and for most employees of the company.

So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action. I understand that if I leave the union I will be unable to rejoin at a later date in my railway career. What I am concerned about is the reputation that unions have for ugly behaviour towards people that don’t go along with strikes and the like and also whether I will come to regret not having the protection of the union at a later date. So I have a couple of questions:

How true are the rumours of victimisation of those not participating in industrial action, with respect to the RMT? Or is that some fantasy 1970s thing that I have stuck in my head?

What am I truly giving up if I leave the union? The policies of Network Rail seem quite robust and I don’t see my immediate management as being particularly antagonistic from my admittedly short time on the railway. I am aware that these strong HR policies may only be there because of the existence of a strong union and that’s one of the reasons I’m struggling with this decision.

Clearly there is no definitive answer to either of those questions but I’m interested to hear the opinions of people on these boards. I’m trying to make the most pragmatic decision for me and my family whilst also not shafting myself for years into the future. Thanks.

 

[Dai Corner]

Bits in bold - the first one isn't going to cause a hit of £ 80m / week to the Scottish economy. People might just go for a night out in their local town / city, they might use the coach - there are 4 coaches an hour on Citylink alone taking ~1hr between Edinburgh and Glasgow from 05.30 to 23.59, plus half-hourly between 00.00 and 05.30.

On the Oban one much the same - the train and coach are a similar duration at ~ 3 hours and there are coaches leaving Glasgow at 14.30 and 18.05.

For perspective, the Scottish GDP is about £4,000m /week.

 

[duncanp]

Bits in bold - the first one isn't going to cause a hit of £ 80m / week to the Scottish economy. People might just go for a night out in their local town / city, they might use the coach - there are 4 coaches an hour on Citylink alone taking ~1hr between Edinburgh and Glasgow from 05.30 to 23.59, plus half-hourly between 00.00 and 05.30.

On the Oban one much the same - the train and coach are a similar duration at ~ 3 hours and there are coaches leaving Glasgow at 14.30 and 18.05.

Point taken - but if people start using the bus, and find it convenient cheap and reliable, then they are not necessarily going to go back to the railways when the strike is eventually settled.

So the longer this "temporary" timetable is in place the more damage it will do to the long term viability of the railway in Scotland.

 

[RPI]

I’d be really interested in anybody’s thoughts or advice on what action to take after this strike announcement. I’m really torn about what to do.

I joined Network Rail 4 years ago and decided to join the RMT as it seemed to be widely recommended by sensible people as the correct decision to make to protect me should anything happen with the company. I’d not been in a unionised industry before, or been a member of a union and so my only exposure to the RMT was Bob Crow and the Tube Strikes from the news.

We’re now clearly in the situation that the membership has overwhelmingly voted for strike action that I believe (possibly erroneously) will be massively counterproductive and lead to a ruinous confrontation with a government who are desperate for a bogeyman to be able to pin things on. Obviously the members want to go on strike and it’s a valid ballot so they shall go on strike. I just can’t see it ending well and my conscience is telling me that it would be wrong to go on strike, both for me personally and for most employees of the company.

So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action. I understand that if I leave the union I will be unable to rejoin at a later date in my railway career. What I am concerned about is the reputation that unions have for ugly behaviour towards people that don’t go along with strikes and the like and also whether I will come to regret not having the protection of the union at a later date. So I have a couple of questions:

How true are the rumours of victimisation of those not participating in industrial action, with respect to the RMT? Or is that some fantasy 1970s thing that I have stuck in my head?

What am I truly giving up if I leave the union? The policies of Network Rail seem quite robust and I don’t see my immediate management as being particularly antagonistic from my admittedly short time on the railway. I am aware that these strong HR policies may only be there because of the existence of a strong union and that’s one of the reasons I’m struggling with this decision.

Clearly there is no definitive answer to either of those questions but I’m interested to hear the opinions of people on these boards. I’m trying to make the most pragmatic decision for me and my family whilst also not shafting myself for years into the future. Thanks.

You have to make your own choice, what is different now though is various respect and dignity policies within the various companies, if you are victimised or harassed there are protections in place.

What would be more likely is that those of a more militant nature may choose to make social interactions more awkward and simply blank you rather than proactively harass or intimidate you.

What I observed in the last strike at the TOC I work for was those who did work generally had good reasons ie they couldn't afford to strike and this was generally accepted, there certainly isn't a 1970's attitude amongst the vast majority of employees

 

[SignallerJohn]

I’d be really interested in anybody’s thoughts or advice on what action to take after this strike announcement. I’m really torn about what to do.

I joined Network Rail 4 years ago and decided to join the RMT as it seemed to be widely recommended by sensible people as the correct decision to make to protect me should anything happen with the company. I’d not been in a unionised industry before, or been a member of a union and so my only exposure to the RMT was Bob Crow and the Tube Strikes from the news.

We’re now clearly in the situation that the membership has overwhelmingly voted for strike action that I believe (possibly erroneously) will be massively counterproductive and lead to a ruinous confrontation with a government who are desperate for a bogeyman to be able to pin things on. Obviously the members want to go on strike and it’s a valid ballot so they shall go on strike. I just can’t see it ending well and my conscience is telling me that it would be wrong to go on strike, both for me personally and for most employees of the company.

So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action. I understand that if I leave the union I will be unable to rejoin at a later date in my railway career. What I am concerned about is the reputation that unions have for ugly behaviour towards people that don’t go along with strikes and the like and also whether I will come to regret not having the protection of the union at a later date. So I have a couple of questions:

How true are the rumours of victimisation of those not participating in industrial action, with respect to the RMT? Or is that some fantasy 1970s thing that I have stuck in my head?

What am I truly giving up if I leave the union? The policies of Network Rail seem quite robust and I don’t see my immediate management as being particularly antagonistic from my admittedly short time on the railway. I am aware that these strong HR policies may only be there because of the existence of a strong union and that’s one of the reasons I’m struggling with this decision.

Clearly there is no definitive answer to either of those questions but I’m interested to hear the opinions of people on these boards. I’m trying to make the most pragmatic decision for me and my family whilst also not shafting myself for years into the future. Thanks.

Basically you want your cake and eat it. Joining the union purely to take but not to give. I hope this is a troll post mate. I can’t imagine anything worse than colleagues losing money while you go into work, maybe a cheeky rest day and you’re still going to get the pay rise they earned. Mad.

Edit: every single benefit you enjoy now is because a strong union. I come across as crass because I don’t agree with the behaviour. If you want to DM me you’re welcome to.

 

[Bumper]

You have to make your own choice, what is different now though is various respect and dignity policies within the various companies, if you are victimised or harassed there are protections in place.

What would be more likely is that those of a more militant nature may choose to make social interactions more awkward and simply blank you rather than proactively harass or intimidate you.

What I observed in the last strike at the TOC I work for was those who did work generally had good reasons ie they couldn't afford to strike and this was generally accepted, there certainly isn't a 1970's attitude amongst the vast majority of employees

Thanks for the insight, much appreciated.

 

[uglymonkey]

What about the train loads of Bio for Drax and similar power stations? I can remember the 3 day week and power cuts on a rota basis - no thanks

 

[yorkie]

....So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action.....

I am proud to say I quit my union (Unison) after their awful behaviour during the pandemic and I have huge respect for people who are prepared to stand up against militant unions who do not have the interests of the people their industry serves at heart.

 

[Dai Corner]

What about the train loads of Bio for Drax and similar power stations? I can remember the 3 day week and power cuts on a rota basis - no thanks

Mentioned previously in the thread. I expect we can get away without burning biomass during the summer when demand is lowest and solar generation is highest. Not having electric trains running will help a bit as well!

If RMT were hoping for power cuts they've chosen the wrong time to have a dispute.

 

[43096]

Give over on the NHS nonsense. That one has been overally milked dry by everyone.

Much like the rail staff playing the “key worker” and/or “Why wasn’t I allowed to stay at home on furlough” cards. Get over it and move on.

 

[43066]

Wait? You want to further tax people who were unable to work, and many of whom took a 20% pay cut to fund your bumper pay rise? Wow, I literally have no more words....

Well, I’m not an RMT member, so no. For about the millionth time of repeating, if the government can afford to give 1m NHS staff a pay rise including high earners, including many who don’t actually do “front line” jobs, there’s money for 80,000 odd RMT members (not all of whom work on the railway of course). Plus the dispute isn’t just about pay.

Edit: No that was a lie, here's some more. How about we also create a tax for worker of industries that the government propped up during the pandemic, like say the railways!!

Again including the wretched NHS then.

It also appears you also escaped your notice that the industries that continued operating weren’t propped up as some act of benevolence to their employees and none of that was under the control of front line staff in those industries.

The venom on here directed at rail staff who are daring to stand up for themselves is extraordinary, with many of you claiming to be union members yourselves and (ironically) staunchly anti Tory. By attacking other modestly paid workers while Sunak etc. are laughing all the way to the bank (and making a shower of governing the country), the Tories have clearly got certain people right where they want them.

Of course the real issue here (as we have seen in many posts up thread) is that many forum members seem to have a thinly veiled contempt for rail-staff and their unions. No change there, then!

I am proud to say I quit my union (Unison) after their awful behaviour during the pandemic and I have huge respect for people who are prepared to stand up against militant unions who do not have the interests of the people their industry serves at heart.

And as you know I strongly disagreed with the rail unions approach to Covid - but this isn’t about that - and it seems a little odd to reject the idea of union membership entirely based on that one area.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Basically you want your cake and eat it. Joining the union purely to take but not to give. I hope this is a troll post mate. I can’t imagine anything worse than colleagues losing money while you go into work, maybe a cheeky rest day

How dare someone question the actions of their union and whether they want to still be a part of it after said actions, am I right?

 

[ainsworth74]

What about the train loads of Bio for Drax and similar power stations? I can remember the 3 day week and power cuts on a rota basis - no thanks

Coal and biomass combined can produce a maximum of around 9GW of power. UK energy demand typically fluctuates between 25GW and 40GW (depending on weather, time of year and similar). At the time of writing UK energy demand is 34GW of which 1.6GW is coming from biomass. There is no coal being used (and indeed hasn't been since early this month). Currently we're getting 9GW from gas, 5GW from nuclear, 15GW from wind and 2GW from solar (I'm rounding figures so they won't be summing properly, treat them as an illustration). In the coldest part of winter it would get tricky if the biomass and coal power stations weren't available. But certainly at this time of year it's not likely to be a particularly significant issue.

You can see this information for yourself here: https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

[Drogba11CFC]

If no announcement about strike action has been made by tomorrow evening, would I be right in thinking that w/c 6th June would be unaffected?

 

[43066]

So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action. I understand that if I leave the union I will be unable to rejoin at a later date in my railway career. What I am concerned about is the reputation that unions have for ugly behaviour towards people that don’t go along with strikes and the like and also whether I will come to regret not having the protection of the union at a later date. So I have a couple of questions:

How true are the rumours of victimisation of those not participating in industrial action, with respect to the RMT? Or is that some fantasy 1970s thing that I have stuck in my head?

I would say you should *certainly* leave the union if you’re not going to abide by the democratic mandate to take action which, after all, is a decision of the membership not the leaders.

I doubt there would be “victimisation” as such, in today’s workplace that would be clamped down on, but the reality is that some people will take umbrage at your stance because they will perceive that you are undermining the action, while they are losing money to try and secure Ts and Cs you will also benefit from. That might make life more difficult in an industry which we all know operates on goodwill of one’s colleagues - eg it might be harder to swap shifts with colleagues.

 

[Bald Rick]

What about the train loads of Bio for Drax and similar power stations? I can remember the 3 day week and power cuts on a rota basis - no thanks

At least one of the Drax units is offline for summer maintenance. Biomass (of all types) has provided less than 5% of our electricity in the past month, of which Drax is only a proportion. We have actually exported more than that to Europe in the same time frame. There is plenty of spare capacity in our generation to cope in the event that Drax went off line (but it won’t).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2022 ==

If no announcement about strike action has been made by tomorrow evening, would I be right in thinking that w/c 6th June would be unaffected?

no. It’s a rolling two weeks, ie any announcement can notify strikes 14 days hence.

 

[SignallerJohn]

How dare someone question the actions of their union and whether they want to still be a part of it after said actions, am I right?

Are you disagreeing that it’s a classic case of cake and eat it?

 

[LittleAH]

Basically you want your cake and eat it. Joining the union purely to take but not to give. I hope this is a troll post mate. I can’t imagine anything worse than colleagues losing money while you go into work, maybe a cheeky rest day and you’re still going to get the pay rise they earned. Mad.

Edit: every single benefit you enjoy now is because a strong union. I come across as crass because I don’t agree with the behaviour. If you want to DM me you’re welcome to.

And you can say that for every union member who is thinking of themselves and not the industry too?

I've just heard Eddie Dempsey say everyone was working hard during the pandemic. But that's not true of everyone. Platform staff who were working part time hours but on full wages. Trainees sat at home paid in full. I can go on.

 

[SignallerJohn]

And you can say that for every union member who is thinking of themselves and not the industry too?

I've just heard Eddie Dempsey say everyone was working hard during the pandemic. But that's not true of everyone. Platform staff who were working part time hours but on full wages. Trainees sat at home paid in full. I can go on.

what point are you trying to making here?

 

[LittleAH]

what point are you trying to making here?

That every union member has their cake and eats it. You simply cannot deny that.

 

[yorkie]

Are you disagreeing that it’s a classic case of cake and eat it?

If you're going to make that argument, I'd argue that sums up the RMT in a nutshell!

Basically you want your cake and eat it. Joining the union purely to take but not to give. I hope this is a troll post mate.

I think you need to look more closely at yourself and what you are saying before you try to criticise others.

I can’t imagine anything worse than colleagues losing money while you go into work, maybe a cheeky rest day and you’re still going to get the pay rise they earned. Mad.

What would be mad would be people choosing to "lose money" by refusing to work and then moaning when someone else does the work. Your logic is totally flawed.

Edit: every single benefit you enjoy now is because a strong union.

Not at all; my job where I was in a Union (not any more as I quit in disgust at their behaviour and far left extremist stance) has considerably poorer 'benefits' than my job which is not in any way Unionised.

I come across as crass because I don’t agree with the behaviour. If you want to DM me you’re welcome to.

I don't agree with your behaviour; the reality is not everyone sees things how you do. The general public take a very different view to unions like the RMT to you and you need to accept that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2022 ==

What would be more likely is that those of a more militant nature may choose to make social interactions more awkward and simply blank you rather than proactively harass or intimidate you.

People who do that are absolute scum; I wouldn't want to work in any workplace where such behaviour goes on.

I am proud to say ostracism of this nature would never happen anywhere I work; if it ever did, either they'd be dealt with or I'd be leaving. There is no way I'd work in any such environment. If any rail workplaces are like that, it needs dealing with.

 

[43066]

How dare someone question the actions of their union and whether they want to still be a part of it after said actions, am I right?

No, but you should abide by the democratic mandate of the union (which you take part in) if you’re remaining a part of it. If you don’t want to do so you should leave rather than actively undermining it by strike breaking.

People should *not* be victimised but, as I’ve explained above, if your colleagues then decide they don’t like you because you’re undermining them, that’s a decision for them. That will inevitably make life more difficult in terms of swaps etc. Ultimately it’s a unionised industry and we all know that when we join up.

But that's not true of everyone. Platform staff who were working part time hours but on full wages. Trainees sat at home paid in full. I can go on.

Most staff continued working full time hours apart from a few brief weeks in the first lockdown - many trainees have lost thousands because they’ve taken much longer to pass out.

You’ve lost me on what any of this has to do with strike breaking.

 

[Bumper]

I am proud to say I quit my union (Unison) after their awful behaviour during the pandemic and I have huge respect for people who are prepared to stand up against militant unions who do not have the interests of the people their industry serves at heart.

I wouldn’t say I’m trying to stand up against the union, I’m just trying to make the best decision for me and mine

I would say you should *certainly* leave the union if you’re not going to abide by the democratic mandate to take action which, after all, is a decision of the membership not the leaders.

I doubt there would be “victimisation” as such, in today’s workplace that would be clamped down on, but the reality is that some people will take umbrage at your stance because they will perceive that you are undermining the action, while they are losing money to try and secure Ts and Cs you will also benefit from. That might make life more difficult in an industry which we all know operates on goodwill of one’s colleagues - eg it might be harder to swap shifts with colleagues.

Thanks for your measured comments, I absolutely would leave the union were I not to go on strike, to do otherwise really would be poor behaviour in my opinion.

I take your point about colleagues’ opinions, and find it quite convincing.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’d be really interested in anybody’s thoughts or advice on what action to take after this strike announcement. I’m really torn about what to do.

I joined Network Rail 4 years ago and decided to join the RMT as it seemed to be widely recommended by sensible people as the correct decision to make to protect me should anything happen with the company. I’d not been in a unionised industry before, or been a member of a union and so my only exposure to the RMT was Bob Crow and the Tube Strikes from the news.

We’re now clearly in the situation that the membership has overwhelmingly voted for strike action that I believe (possibly erroneously) will be massively counterproductive and lead to a ruinous confrontation with a government who are desperate for a bogeyman to be able to pin things on. Obviously the members want to go on strike and it’s a valid ballot so they shall go on strike. I just can’t see it ending well and my conscience is telling me that it would be wrong to go on strike, both for me personally and for most employees of the company.

So my options as I see it are to stay in the union and go on a strike that I think is wrong, or leave the union now and do not participate in this industrial action. I understand that if I leave the union I will be unable to rejoin at a later date in my railway career. What I am concerned about is the reputation that unions have for ugly behaviour towards people that don’t go along with strikes and the like and also whether I will come to regret not having the protection of the union at a later date. So I have a couple of questions:

How true are the rumours of victimisation of those not participating in industrial action, with respect to the RMT? Or is that some fantasy 1970s thing that I have stuck in my head?

What am I truly giving up if I leave the union? The policies of Network Rail seem quite robust and I don’t see my immediate management as being particularly antagonistic from my admittedly short time on the railway. I am aware that these strong HR policies may only be there because of the existence of a strong union and that’s one of the reasons I’m struggling with this decision.

Clearly there is no definitive answer to either of those questions but I’m interested to hear the opinions of people on these boards. I’m trying to make the most pragmatic decision for me and my family whilst also not shafting myself for years into the future. Thanks.

Don't leave yourself in the position of not being in a union. See it as a personal insurance policy to be used in times of need when you have difficulties with your employer.

As I know from experience your company can have the most thorough, comprehensive employee protection policies in the world, but it doesn't mean things won't go wrong. Look at the dispute about bullying at Green Park and Euston LU stations for example.

 

[irish_rail]

Sad thing is all of this could have been completely avoided if people (including many rail staff btw) hadn't voted for the clown in 2019 just to get Bre*it done....

 

[43066]

Thanks for your measured comments, I absolutely would leave the union were I not to go on strike, to do otherwise really would be poor behaviour in my opinion.

I take your point about colleagues’ opinions, and find it quite convincing.

Maybe speak to the reps if you’re in a position of hardship? I’d really try and avoid leaving if you can as there are benefits to memberships as most of us realise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2022 ==

Don't leave yourself in the position of not being in a union. See it as a personal insurance policy to be used in times of need when you have difficulties with your employer.

As I know from experience your company can have the most thorough, comprehensive employee protection policies in the world, but it doesn't mean things won't go wrong. Look at the dispute about bullying at Green Park and Euston LU stations for example.

Absolutely.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Plus many of those who were furloughed were able (and legally entitled) to seek employment opportunities elsewhere whilst still receiving full furlough payments.

I had friends that were receiving 80% of their income whilst at the same time taking up roles as delivery drivers and 0hr roles that meant they were nearly doubling their income

They were not legally entitled to do that unless it would’ve been outside their hours of work pre furlough.

 

[Towers]

Are you disagreeing that it’s a classic case of cake and eat it?

It isn't. What the RMT seem unable (or unwilling) to acknowledge is that a vast number of their members are only in the union for the benefit of their local reps should they find themselves in need of their services. The 1970s socialist nutjob beliefs of the leadership and their relentless political nonsense are, frankly, an embarrassment to a lot of members, and plenty would go elsewhere if only there was a viable alternative. How many people can be bothered with branch meetings, for example? Cuba Garden Party, anyone? No, didn't think so.

Of course, all of this must irritate the union and certain more active members enormously, but the reality is that the RMT needs their members' money. They could boot out all those who aren't willing to regularly attend branch meetings, but the organisation would very quickly become a rather niche club.

Plenty will have serious objections to what they are about to be 'instructed' to do by their union. Here are some figures from one TOC, as reported by the RMT:

Papers issued: 2818
Total votes: 1955

Whilst it came back as a yes, nearly 1000 people chose not to vote at all. Foolish, definitely. But also hardly a ringing endorsement of support for their union.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They were not legally entitled to do that unless it would’ve been outside their hours of work pre furlough.

Not actually correct. You couldn't work for your existing employer but you were at liberty to get another job or do voluntary work. Some employers were willing to pay it up to 100% on the condition that you didn't get another job.

That said, most delivery driver work of the kind that's easy to get into (e.g. Uber Eats/Deliveroo) is outside normal office hours anyway.

 

[nuneatonmark]

It just sounds like a just another opportunistic threat of strike against a weak government. Just what the public need after Covid and during a cost of living crisis, national rail strikes! Sometimes, I wonder whether rail unions actually live in the same world as the rest of us. Unfortunately the great majority of us can't hold the country to ransom when things get tough. I am sure that when the government dangles some pieces of silver at the unions, it'll all go away until the next time. I have absolutely no sympathy for any proposed strikes, I'll use the car, bus or plane and won't feel bad when the rail industry suffers job losses because no one uses them anymore.