Rail Head Treatment

[Iskra]

It's that time of year. Looking at photographs and google it has occurred to me that all the pictures are relatively modern, with Network Rail high-pressure water blowers travelling around the network literally blasting leaf mulch off the tracks. This got me thinking, how was this problem dealt with in the past? Can any of the more senior forum members shed some light on this please?

 

[The Lad]

Generally in the days of steam it was much less of a problem, higher axle loads, tread brakes, slower speeds and a poorer understanding of the wheel rail interface meant that the wheel sets scrubbed the rails more. The introduction of learnings from the Tribology section of the research department meant they wheels ran much more smoothly on the rails giving a poorer cleaning action and the need for track circuit actuators on stock to make the track circuits work.

 

[Iskra]

Thank you very much for a great, informative answer.

 

[Taunton]

The main way it was dealt with was locomotives with 20 ton axle-loads, which seemed the most effective way to deal with it. They all had tread brakes. Their ability to sand handled much of the remainder, and on uphills, the more ready supply of banking locomotives, which had the advantage of trailing the treatment of the railhead by the rest of the train helped as well. And the trackside had few trees compared to today, because they were never given the chance to develop from small shrubs owing to mowing the banksides down to short grass to guard against steam locos setting fire to it during drought spells.

Multiple units with half the axle load, disc brakes which do not condition the treads, absence of sanding, no ready assistance, and the end of proper track gangers all come in combination. What else could be expected? 1 is down to the way NR charge, 2 and 3 are the rolling stock providers, 4 is the fragmentation of TOCs, and 5 is NR maintenance standards. An interesting commentary about the latter was on another thread recently, a photo at the end of WW2 of a train. Someone commented on how weed-free and neat the formation and trackside was. In wartime.

Notably the problem first surfaced quite some years ago on Southern Region multiple unit lines, and then has spread nationwide. It seems the heritage railways do not suffer from the problem.

 

[Cowley]

The main way it was dealt with was locomotives with 20 ton axle-loads, which seemed the most effective way to deal with it. They all had tread brakes. Their ability to sand handled much of the remainder, and on uphills, the more ready supply of banking locomotives, which had the advantage of trailing the treatment of the railhead by the rest of the train helped as well. And the trackside had few trees compared to today, because they were never given the chance to develop from small shrubs owing to mowing the banksides down to short grass to guard against steam locos setting fire to it during drought spells.

Multiple units with half the axle load, disc brakes which do not condition the treads, absence of sanding, no ready assistance, and the end of proper track gangers all come in combination. What else could be expected? 1 is down to the way NR charge, 2 and 3 are the rolling stock providers, 4 is the fragmentation of TOCs, and 5 is NR maintenance standards. An interesting commentary about the latter was on another thread recently, a photo at the end of WW2 of a train. Someone commented on how weed-free and neat the formation and trackside was. In wartime.

Notably the problem first surfaced quite some years ago on Southern Region multiple unit lines, and then has spread nationwide. It seems the heritage railways do not suffer from the problem.

Summed up perfectly, but just to add regarding heritage railways - I do remember 34105 Swanage coming to grief on the 1 in 60 from Alton to Medstead a number of times in autumn when on the first run of the day.
The last section is lined with trees and I remember the crew hand sanding the rails to get moving again even with just a five coach load.
The problem being that in BR days you could get a good 60mph run at the hill (there were still drivers there in the 1990s that had driven the diverted Bournemouth Belle over the route) and keep even a long train moving, whereas 25mph on a twisting climb with damp rails didn't seem to suit a light footed Bulleid too well...
Certainly a test of skill for inexperienced drivers.

 

[Iskra]

Thank you gentlemen for your excellent input.

 

[AJM580]

Not sure if the 1980s count as modern (as it is 30 years ago!) but the RM web forum has some interesting pictures of the mid 1980s Fisons weedkiller trains. The link is http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...illing-trains-in-the-1980s-what-worked-where/

 

[edwin_m]

Generally in the days of steam it was much less of a problem, higher axle loads, tread brakes, slower speeds and a poorer understanding of the wheel rail interface meant that the wheel sets scrubbed the rails more. The introduction of learnings from the Tribology section of the research department meant they wheels ran much more smoothly on the rails giving a poorer cleaning action and the need for track circuit actuators on stock to make the track circuits work.

Tribology is the study of friction and that work was to understand the available adhesion around the network. The key innovation (also from BR Research) was in vehicle dynamics, allowing bogies to run much more smoothly and as a consequence removing the "scrubbing" effect of a badly-riding bogie hunting to and fro on the railhead.

 

[Cowley]

Not sure if the 1980s count as modern (as it is 30 years ago!) but the RM web forum has some interesting pictures of the mid 1980s Fisons weedkiller trains. The link is http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...illing-trains-in-the-1980s-what-worked-where/

Fascinating. I just spent some time looking through all of that and it reminded me that I did see the 20s on a weed-killing train somewhere once (Did those 20s end up as some of DRS' first locos?).
And no AJM, I don't think we're allowed to call the 1980s modern anymore, despite it feeling like it was only a few years ago...

 

[Taunton]

Now I can distinctly remember, back in the 1960s (so before any of the photos in the linked article) the WR weedkilling train coming through Taunton, westbound, on a couple of afternoons. About 8 superannuated 6-wheel milk tankers for the fluid, piped to an old Hawksworth GW coach at the back with a rebuilt rear with a spray bar and windows, painted in (of course) chocolate & cream. Well, Swindon had to use up the old paint stocks somehow.

regarding heritage railways - I do remember 34105 Swanage coming to grief

Quite normal. Bulleid Pacific = Slipping

 

[Cowley]

Quite normal. Bulleid Pacific = Slipping

One axle too many eh Taunton?

 

[AJM580]

Fascinating. I just spent some time looking through all of that and it reminded me that I did see the 20s on a weed-killing train somewhere once (Did those 20s end up as some of DRS' first locos?).

One axle too many eh Taunton?

They did indeed - 20901 to 20906! Saw them several times round East Anglia.
As for 34105 coming to grief - I couldn't see that happening with a Castle or King!!

 

[Bald Rick]

Of course there was a significant part of the railway that ran without locos for several decades before the MPVs and Railhead treatment trains came into being in the late 90s early 00s.

The answer then is that very little was done, and performance was typically bloody awful. Tread brakes helped a little on most post-modernisation plan EMUs / DMUs, but it by no means solved the problem. (There was a nasty accident on the Brighton Main line one night where an EMU slid for several miles whilst trying to stop and had a head on somewhere near Haywards Heath). Modern disc braked stock introduced from the late 70s onwards had big problems - there were (famously) piles of sand alongside the wall of death in Sutton for guards to walk in front of the train to dishing it out as they went .

 

[daikilo]

Weedkilling had nothing to do with the raihead as such! I believe sanding and tread brakes is the simple answer although I have vague memories of testing with scrubbers in the 1970s or 80s which I think were metal brushes attached somewhere to a loco or dmu. Didn't last long as they basically didn't work (got clogged with muck and wore down too fast). Water jets alone also tried but had to be so powerful to have any real effect on a contaminated railhead that there was collateral damage.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Another factor might be the amount of lineside vegetation/trees - in steam days, embankments were generally kept clear due to the fire risk. And even if you compare photos of the same location from the 1980s to today, it's surprising just how much more greenery there is close to the track these days.

 

[Bald Rick]

Weedkilling had nothing to do with the raihead as such! I believe sanding and tread brakes is the simple answer although I have vague memories of testing with scrubbers in the 1970s or 80s which I think were metal brushes attached somewhere to a loco or dmu. Didn't last long as they basically didn't work (got clogged with muck and wore down too fast). Water jets alone also tried but had to be so powerful to have any real effect on a contaminated railhead that there was collateral damage.

Plenty of places now where water jetting only is done. But the train has to be moving; at 1500psi if the train stops it will cut through the rail in a trice.

Another factor might be the amount of lineside vegetation/trees - in steam days, embankments were generally kept clear due to the fire risk. And even if you compare photos of the same location from the 1980s to today, it's surprising just how much more greenery there is close to the track these days.

It was more the point that in steam days the sparks and embers from the locos kept the embankments clear of all saplings through regular burnings.

 

[theageofthetra]

Another factor might be the amount of lineside vegetation/trees - in steam days, embankments were generally kept clear due to the fire risk. And even if you compare photos of the same location from the 1980s to today, it's surprising just how much more greenery there is close to the track these days.

Compare to a lineside in Australia- Eucalyptus oil & rail don't mix plus the bushfire risk. A lineside there looks like pictures of ones here in the 50's. They also don't have EU imposed herbicide rules.

 

[delt1c]

remember travelling on the Ghan in 2010, there were several trackside bush fires which if had been in UK would have halted the service but we just continued on or way regardless.

 

[83G/84D]

Prior to the current railhead treatment trains there were a pool of locomotives some of which had a tank containing "sandite" in the engine room. This was applied by the driver at specified points, via the sanding pipes on the locomotive, to the railhead.

I know some class 37's carried out these duties and have an idea 31's did as well.

 

[edwin_m]

Prior to the current railhead treatment trains there were a pool of locomotives some of which had a tank containing "sandite" in the engine room. This was applied by the driver at specified points, via the sanding pipes on the locomotive, to the railhead.

I know some class 37's carried out these duties and have an idea 31's did as well.

Never heard of this, but if the sanding pipes were used to carry Sandite they would need a total clean-out before they could carry dry sand again.

 

[Saltleyman]

In the early days of diesels we used to "sand" the Aston to Lichfield City line using a class 25 (which was fitted with sanders)and we took a fitter and several bags of sand to refill the hoppers.This was done Monday to Saturday during the leaf fall season, leaving Saltley depot at 04.00 hrs every morning.

 

[Marklund]

It was more the point that in steam days the sparks and embers from the locos kept the embankments clear of all saplings through regular burnings.

Not in the 1970s and 80s though! Vegetation management ceased, oh, mid 1990s...

 

[delt1c]

Prior to the current railhead treatment trains there were a pool of locomotives some of which had a tank containing "sandite" in the engine room. This was applied by the driver at specified points, via the sanding pipes on the locomotive, to the railhead.

I know some class 37's carried out these duties and have an idea 31's did as well.

It was mainly DMU's after withdrawl from passenger service which were converted to sandite units.

 

[yorksrob]

It was mainly DMU's after withdrawl from passenger service which were converted to sandite units.

And EMU's on the Southern.

 

[83G/84D]

The West Country had converted Class 37's for a few years in a specific sandite pool

 

[Cowley]

The West Country had converted Class 37's for a few years in a specific sandier pool.

Looking in an old 2002 Platform 5 book it shows these locos as having sandite laying equipment fitted:

37503, 505, 509, 513, 516, 517, 518, 520 and 521 all based at various depots including Toton, Ayr, Old Oak and Crewe.

37667-670, 673-680, 682, 684, 685, 688, 689, 692-698 spread out between Toton, Crewe, Bescott, Ayr, Thornaby and Tyne Yard

37905 and 906 both Old Oak.

Can’t find any other classes fitted.
I assume no 37/7s (Heavyweights) were used due to the extra ballast weights taking up room/weight maybe?

 

[Bald Rick]

Not in the 1970s and 80s though! Vegetation management ceased, oh, mid 1990s...

It stopped on some lines a long time before that. If you look at the London - Brighton runs in 4 mins, the vegetation all grows between the 50s and 80s version; there's not much difference between the 80s and 00s.

 

[83G/84D]

Looking in an old 2002 Platform 5 book it shows these locos as having sandite laying equipment fitted:

37503, 505, 509, 513, 516, 517, 518, 520 and 521 all based at various depots including Toton, Ayr, Old Oak and Crewe.

37667-670, 673-680, 682, 684, 685, 688, 689, 692-698 spread out between Toton, Crewe, Bescott, Ayr, Thornaby and Tyne Yard

37905 and 906 both Old Oak.

Can’t find any other classes fitted.
I assume no 37/7s (Heavyweights) were used due to the extra ballast weights taking up room/weight maybe?

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting.

 

[83G/84D]

1997 book:-

LBSB Bescot Class 37 sandite fitted
37133, 37154, 37178, 37191, 37196, 37255, 37258, 37262, 37330, 37334.

LNSK Cardiff Canton Class 37 sandite fitted
37197, 37229, 37230, 37254, 37263, 37275.

 

[Saltleyman]

Saltley train drivers used to "sandite" the route between Standish Junction and Kemble with a class 37 ex Bescot ,returning from Kemble to Bescot via Bromsgrove and New Street,we always tried to save some "sandite" to use on the Lickey Bank on returning from Kemble.