Rail Gourmet, how does it work?

[MG11]

A little digging reveals that they used to provide catering on London Midland as well.

 

[MG11]

I've noticed recently, some services are loaded with just one sandwich, or 2 at the begining of the journey. The 13:49 SHF-STP had one chicken and one ploughman's, last week I saw one being loaded with just the one chicken sandwich. I thought they are usually loaded with four or five sandwiches at the beginning? Is this a waste reducing scheme?

 

[bigfoote]

I would assume it's based on sales history and algorithms. Example: 6 weeks prior, 1.4 chicken sandwiches, 0.3 cheese sandwiches sold on average on the service; 1 chicken sandwich stocked only, figures being rounded down etc.
I guess it's "we'd rather miss a sale, than have wastage"

 

[MG11]

I would assume it's based on sales history and algorithms. Example: 6 weeks prior, 1.4 chicken sandwiches, 0.3 cheese sandwiches sold on average on the service; 1 chicken sandwich stocked only, figures being rounded down etc.
I guess it's "we'd rather miss a sale, than have wastage"

Ooo, I didn't realise it was so tailored, I guess the ECR systems help with this.

 

[Finghall]

Why bother making a detour on my journey to the station when I can buy my refreshments from the comfort of my seat on the train, or a short stroll to the buffet bar and give me the opportunity to stretch my legs and visit the toilet at the same time. The slightly increased premium I may incur for this pleasure will probably seem insignificant considering the amount of money I'll spend on the journey and day out I'm having anyway.

The Trolley service is also about hospitality and passenger experience and could be used to add value to the journey experience as with the Settle and Carlisle Railway. It also plays to the strengths of the train over other modes. However, i agree with commentators that it has to be reliable. The ones on Southeastern trains were often not there or the trolley would be just stationery at one end of the train (when there were no blocked corridors) unknown to most passengers These trains serve many stations that have no catering.
Needless to say they were withdrawn a part of the general diminishing of Southestern.

 

[Starmill]

their products are of high quality and they provide a convenience service

High quality Rail Gourmet products? Ha hahahahahhahah! Oh wow my sides. That is the most hilarious thing I've ever heard in reference to onboard catering.

You really would not like the ScotRail trolley. They serve much nicer things than Rail Gourmet and crucially are far cheaper. I almost always buy a drink if I'm on a ScotRail train when the trolley comes past. They also had an excellent offer of a hot drink and a biscuit for something like £1.90 which was a pretty amazing deal for onboard catering.

 

[bigfoote]

Ooo, I didn't realise it was so tailored, I guess the ECR systems help with this.

Just a theory, having worked in Stock Control for a large supermarket, and seeing the types of information a modern till system can provide, and how that ties into replenishment. Bit different to RailGourmet, and no doubt their margins are tighter.

 

[LowLevel]

It's up to the host on RG EMT. They have their sales target (measured in £ per hour) and stock their trolleys accordingly to achieve it. Sandwiches get wasted easily not lasting long and too many wasted = a telling off. You might sell sandwiches or you might not. Booze and chocolate won't go off that day and the margins on tea and coffee are humongous so they go for that kind of stuff as they'll either shift it or hand it back.

We aren't talking beneficent companies with good pensions, conditions, wages and benefits like most railway operators. Low wages topped up with commission, long shifts, losses deducted and so on is how it is. They're there to make money not provide a service. SSP have never been known for being particularly nice to their staff.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It has long been a truism that on-board catering loses money regardless of country/route. It is provided as a loss-leader so as long as those losses are kept to a particular level it can continue. Out-sourcing has helped reduce costs by using lower cost labour (zero hours contracts, etc) but ever tightening food safety and general H&S regulations will continue to undermine the finances of such operations. In short it would not surprise me to see a complete end to on-train catering on all but a handful of "prime business" services where it might be possible to work with high margins.

Commenters about the Settle to Carlisle line trolleys may well be forgetting that the catering service is staffed by the Friends of the Settle to Carlisle Railway and are volunteers, ie nil labour costs. A commercial service would almost certainly be unsustainable.

 

[sheff1]

It has long been a truism that on-board catering loses money regardless of country/route.

Not so. The self-employed on-board catering providers in India, to name just one country, are certainly not doing it to make a loss. There was a TV programme not that long ago which followed such a person and his profits allowed him to provide much better living accommodation for his family than others in the area.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Not so. The self-employed on-board catering providers in India, to name just one country, are certainly not doing it to make a loss. There was a TV programme not that long ago which followed such a person and his profits allowed him to provide much better living accommodation for his family than others in the area.

Have you seen the health and safety regime on Indian Railways? That's right, it's as good as non-existant. It's as well the local cuisine tends to make food poisoning less likely though visitors may well experience other "difficulties"!

 

[pdeaves]

Be fair, sheff1 was responding to your assertion that catering loses money regardless of country with an example where that isn't true. (S)he was not making any comparisons as to why one country might be more profitable than another or healthier than another.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Given this is a discussion about on-train catering in this country it seems a little disingenious to be making comparisons with somewhere like India where general living and working conditions are utterly different to here. I clearly should have taken account of the pedants who lurk here and qualified my statement about "countries" and made it clear I meant those with comparable conditions to ours, ie Europe.

 

[sheff1]

Given this is a discussion about on-train catering in this country it seems a little disingenious to be making comparisons with somewhere like India

It was you who brought other countries into the discussion.

Be fair, sheff1 was responding to your assertion that catering loses money regardless of country with an example where that isn't true. (S)he was not making any comparisons as to why one country might be more profitable than another or healthier than another.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Low wages topped up with commission, long shifts, losses deducted and so on is how it is.

It's improved a bit since when National Express (as One) made all their catering staff "self employed". Slow sales day? You don't get paid. Disgusting behaviour.

It's telling that a lot of TOCs got rid of catering shortly after National Express had to back down and pay national minimum wage...

 

[adrock1976]

It's up to the host on RG EMT. They have their sales target (measured in £ per hour) and stock their trolleys accordingly to achieve it. Sandwiches get wasted easily not lasting long and too many wasted = a telling off. You might sell sandwiches or you might not. Booze and chocolate won't go off that day and the margins on tea and coffee are humongous so they go for that kind of stuff as they'll either shift it or hand it back.

We aren't talking beneficent companies with good pensions, conditions, wages and benefits like most railway operators. Low wages topped up with commission, long shifts, losses deducted and so on is how it is. They're there to make money not provide a service. SSP have never been known for being particularly nice to their staff.

A simple way to reduce waste of perishable items such as sandwiches is that if they are near to the end of the day or have one day remaining on the best before date, it could be sold at half price. In that position, I would rather have £2 in the till than not having £4 in the till (prices are illustrative and may not reflect what they are actually sold for).

On a side note, could it be explained what SSP is, as acronyms and abbreviations are not meant to be used without first saying what they mean? I am aware of the 2 common meanings - one being Statutory Sick Pay with the second being Scottish Socialist Party that were popular in the 2003 Scottish Parliament elections. The leader at the time was the sun tanned, loudmouth table-banging Tommy Sheridan, who took a very strange route into closing down a Murdoch rag by lying about attending swingers parties in Manchester.

 

[Starmill]

Their full name is Select Service Partner UK Limited.

 

[LowLevel]

SSP is a company name. Formerly known as Select Service Partners, they started using SSP a while back. They are the parent of RG (as Rail Gourmet now likes to be known). If you want to go further back they are the privatised BR (BR stands for British Rail, I'm told they were once the GB, that's Great Britain, an island within the UK, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, state rail operator) Traveller's Fare passed around and rebranded.

They are now legally known as SSP Group PLC (public limited company!) so to consider SSP an abbreviation is incorrect, it is merely a company name. Presumably they've had a rebrand to attempt to 'modify' their reputation.

 

[jon0844]

Their full name is Select Service Partner UK Limited.

I would love to see the Scottish Socialist Party running trolley services. I assume it would be limited to Scotland though, and perhaps the sleeper service.

 

[Qwerty133]

SSP is a company name. Formerly known as Select Service Partners, they started using SSP a while back. They are the parent of RG (as Rail Gourmet now likes to be known). If you want to go further back they are the privatised BR (BR stands for British Rail, I'm told they were once the GB, that's Great Britain, an island within the UK, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, state rail operator) Traveller's Fare passed around and rebranded.

They are now legally known as SSP Group PLC (public limited company!) so to consider SSP an abbreviation is incorrect, it is merely a company name. Presumably they've had a rebrand to attempt to 'modify' their reputation.

I always assumed it stood for something along the lines of Sh*t at Silly Prices or something along those lines, or at least that would better describe the 'service' they offer on the occasion they succeed in providing it at all.
Memorable experiences from their RG staff include attempts to sell me beer when I was 16 (at the oldest) at 9 in the morning, leaving the trolley unattended in the wheelchair bay for a number of stops and a host attempting to claim 7up was sparkling water, although to be fair these experiences are from a few years ago as their staff always seem to be 'unavailable' when I am travelling at the minute. Quite honestly I find it strange that any TOC wants to have people wearing their uniform who are completely clueless as to any basic information regarding the service they are onboard that doesn't involve the overpriced Coffee and lukewarm beer they are selling.

 

[HH]

SSP also run most of the catering outlets you'll find on larger GB rail stations, due to having grandfather rights, arising from BR days, and many of the brands (such as "Upper Crust" are theirs too. Even where you see nationally known brands, it's due to doing a deal with SSP, e.g. SSP run it as a franchise. They thus have a huge advantage in competing on on-train catering as they're already delivering to stations and have a virtual monopoly on what the station offer is. SSP is like a vampire squid on the face of UK rail catering.

 

[Starmill]

They own 'Upper Crust' and 'Pumpkin' but they do also operate a number of Burger King, M&S Simply Food and Starbucks outlets.

From my experience of their job adverts they offer the lowest rate of pay they legally can for many staff working in these outlets.

 

[Busaholic]

I would love to see the Scottish Socialist Party running trolley services. I assume it would be limited to Scotland though, and perhaps the sleeper service.

Sleepers, as in John le Carre?

 

[Skie]

When you contract something out, you usually do get a chance to specify plenty of the things involved in the service. Price will be one of them. Rail Gourmet probably offer a bunch of tiers of service, with varying food/drink options and prices to go with them. A TOC will just pick whatever they feel meets their needs best.

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths
If I am travelling I might take some water with me but that is that. I cannot rely on there being catering which- shock horror - has to be cancelled from time to time. Things happen.

Spare a thought for the people travelling with work, where we dont have much time to grab food at our destination and so a quick snack onboard the train is somewhat useful. The prices may make your eyes water, but are usually expensed (though in my case it means I hit my rather paltry expense cap quickly!) and it means more time actually working at the destination.

 

[sheff1]

A simple way to reduce waste of perishable items such as sandwiches is that if they are near to the end of the day or have one day remaining on the best before date, it could be sold at half price. In that position, I would rather have £2 in the till than not having £4 in the till (prices are illustrative and may not reflect what they are actually sold for).

East Midlands Trains used to do exactly that on the later northbound trains from St Pancras, but I have not heard announcements to that effect for years. Earlier posts suggest that is because fewer sandwiches are loaded nowadays.

 

[Carlisle]

Commenters about the Settle to Carlisle line trolleys may well be forgetting that the catering service is staffed by the Friends of the Settle to Carlisle Railway and are volunteers, ie nil labour costs. A commercial service would almost certainly be unsustainable.

I thought they were paid staff employed by the Settle and Carlisle development company, has it all gone voluntary now ?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I thought they were paid staff employed by the Settle and Carlisle development company, has it all gone voluntary now ?

TBF it's been a while since I last went that way so you could be right. Any offers anyone?