Rail Gourmet, how does it work?

[MG11]

Rail Gourmet are contracted to provide many catering services across the country. Yet, I've always wondered how it works. For example, East Midlands Trains use RG for their Standard refreshment service. Their Customer Hosts wear East Midlands Trains uniform, but their direct employers are RG. So, how is it funded? Do EMT pay RG a set rate per journey or do RG pay EMT for the priviledge of being able to sell on board their trains? Who funds the stock? Also, who decides on the menu and the price each item retails at? I recall that when EMT trialled Cafe En Route, the prices were different to the trolley service i.e. Coca Cola was £1.60, it's normally £2. I'm not complaining, I think that they should charge a premium price, their products are of high quality and they provide a convenience service, I've just always been interested in the railway catering division and how it operates. Thanks for the replies and thanks everyone for making me feel welcome here.

 

[DelW]

It's an interesting question, but I suspect the answers may be commercially confidential, so we may not get to hear any definitive answers.

Many commercial organisations outsource parts of their operations to subcontractors, although this is often not obvious when the 'branding' is that of the main organisation not the subcontractor. it's quite possible that in this case the terms of the subcontract vary between different train operators and routes, depending on the level of service that the operator wants to offer and the catering revenue available, in the same way that TOCs pay or receive different levels of premium or subsidy.

 

[Clip]

Emt will juat aimply outsiurce the trolley part of the service.

For their restaurant/buffet service as with other companies that use them they will just use them as their suppliers as its so much easier to work with one company and one invoice.

 

[cjp]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths
If I am travelling I might take some water with me but that is that. I cannot rely on there being catering which- shock horror - has to be cancelled from time to time. Things happen. (It is not blaming people but but just a fact of life that spare staff cannot be kept in cupboard and bought out just in case of illness or other need.)
If I am travelling long distance I either travel first and take the food offered or buy something before boarding - usually from an off-station supermarket.

I know it is not answering your question but it just I do not see why the premium priced service exists in any shape or form on shortish journeys - which is perhaps why Chiltern got rid of their trolleys?

 

[Clip]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths

I know it is not answering your question but it just I do not see why the premium priced service exists in any shape or form on shortish journeys - which is perhaps why Chiltern got rid of their trolleys?

I enjoy,shock horror, of both eating and drinking and feels it adds to the travel experience so why shouldnt there be an option for me to purchase something?

Chiltern got rid as they were not making money full stop but none of this has anyhong to do with how rail gourmet operates

 

[Harbouring]

It’s an interesting question, when Southern got rid of catering on Arun valley and Coastway routes it was presented as the TOC not willing to continue the service. It seems to me RG rely on a TOC wanting them to provide the service and then it’s outsourced to them to manage but I have no idea of the formalities and technicalities behind funding etc.

 

[jon0844]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths
If I am travelling I might take some water with me but that is that. I cannot rely on there being catering which- shock horror - has to be cancelled from time to time. Things happen. (It is not blaming people but but just a fact of life that spare staff cannot be kept in cupboard and bought out just in case of illness or other need.)
If I am travelling long distance I either travel first and take the food offered or buy something before boarding - usually from an off-station supermarket.

I know it is not answering your question but it just I do not see why the premium priced service exists in any shape or form on shortish journeys - which is perhaps why Chiltern got rid of their trolleys?

But these days you can't even rely on getting service in first class all the time.

I do think that as we get more modern rolling stock with wider aisles and walk through designs, there's scope to survey routes and consider putting on trolleys speculatively where there may be decent patronage from leisure travellers. Even on shorter routes, like London to Brighton, or London to Cambridge. Services that once had facilities and were then dropped, quite likely because they couldn't work through busy trains.

Now with a 700 I'd argue there's a lot less of a problem off-peak.

Commuters have their favourite coffee shop/stand, but on a weekend I am sure there's a market for soft drinks, coffees and tees when it's cold, maybe a can of beer and sweets/buns/crisps. I don't know why a TOC can't charge a nominal amount to let a company take a punt at their own risk, or even allow them free access if they can commit to a certain number of services. It benefits the TOC, and even the most prepared traveller might decide an hour in that they'd quite like a drink even though they didn't before.

 

[emil]

If it's the same as RG in the south then the staff would get minimum wage plus certain percentage commission on sales. RG buy the stock in and sell for a set price by them under a contract to provide catering on trains. Whatever profit margins or contract price agreed would be commercially sensitive information.

 

[221129]

It depends on the contract RG have with the TOC. I believe they hold a contract with all the TOCs that have catering on board apart from XC and ATW (and maybe GC)

 

[Darandio]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths

Having something to eat on a train has always been a convenient way to go about things, once upon a time it was something special. If i'm on a 1-2 hour train journey and have something to eat on there, it saves me the hassle of grabbing something either before or after, when I might want to be more productive with my time.

What is the problem with that?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

In general, my understanding is that a TOC would generally expect to offer a small subsidy to RG to provide a trolley service (maybe 5-10% of the underlying cost, with the balance coming from sales of food & drink), on the basis that it helps support revenue (to a limited extent) and that RG are free to set prices. On busier routes, no subsidy would be offered. It's becoming a more marginal activity here, and in many other countries (SBB are about to axe most of their 'Minibar' trollies), thanks to a larger range of options on and near large stations.

 

[PeterC]

I would much rather buy my coffee on board than try and carry lugguage and a disposable cup. Even worse if the catering unit is "landside". Using a ticket gate while carrying a case and a cup of coffee is a recipe for scalded fingers.

The trouble is that on board catering can never be relied upon. I have planned journeys in the past on the basis that I can buy hot food on board only for the advertised service to be unavailable.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Having something to eat on a train has always been a convenient way to go about things, once upon a time it was something special. If i'm on a 1-2 hour train journey and have something to eat on there, it saves me the hassle of grabbing something either before or after, when I might want to be more productive with my time.

What is the problem with that?

I think the best meal I've had on a train 'ad hoc' was on a Milano Centrale - Zurich Hbf SBB Eurocity, eating a nice plate of pasta and sharing a bottle of wine whilst gently snaking up the Gotthard pass on the Italian side.

 

[LowLevel]

They get people on minimum wage (with a little extra commission that gets reduced to cover any losses) to work mostly very long days hauling very heavy trolleys up and down trains without much in the way of a proper break and few rights, and charge high prices for anything they sell. I am not a fan overall of SSP. They do not treat their people well.

 

[Mugby]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths
If I am travelling I might take some water with me but that is that. I cannot rely on there being catering which- shock horror - has to be cancelled from time to time. Things happen. (It is not blaming people but but just a fact of life that spare staff cannot be kept in cupboard and bought out just in case of illness or other need.)
If I am travelling long distance I either travel first and take the food offered or buy something before boarding - usually from an off-station supermarket

Low boredom threshold! Some people cannot sit and watch television without snacking on crisps or nibbles of some sort!

I always have a soft drink with a screw top (not fizzy) with me and I have a mental note of places in many towns where I can get a takeaway coffee for about £1 because, not being mean, but I won't pay £2.40 for a coffee off the trolley which is just instant and probably only lukewarm!

 

[whhistle]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths

While I agree with you, simply put, it's revenue for the company.
People will pay. It's like motorway service stations. People will pay higher prices because there's no competition.

I enjoy,shock horror, of both eating and drinking and feels it adds to the travel experience so why shouldnt there be an option for me to purchase something?

I enjoy reading books, should the company give a lending library option?
I enjoy sleeping, perhaps the company should give me the opportunity to purchase a bed... or at least a pillow or a blanket!
I really like retro gaming, so the company should also provide options, like GameBoys.
I also usually take my own food, but usually, quick food needs a microwave. Perhaps the company should add a public microwave somewhere on board so I can heat my own food.
I understand where you're coming from, but the logic doesn't make sense.


More interestingly though is that EMT trolley staff are RG, yet Virgin West Coast are all Virgin.
Personally, I think the idea of a trolley service is really out dated. I understand many wouldn't want to get up off their seat and go to a "shop" but I still think it's a bit dated.

 

[EssexGonzo]

For me, this is a bit like the First Class Lounge debate. What is there to get excited about? Who gets to a station with enough time to languish in a "lounge", sorry, waiting room with poor coffee, at a station? There are many, many coffee shops as close to the train with better coffee and ambience. Why is such a lounge important?

Ditto for on-board catering.

I carry water anyway, if I get breakfast for the journey I get it from a decent shop and carry it in a bag provided by such establishment (see - that's how to get coffee to the train when you have other bags too *wink*) and once I've had these I don't generally need to buy sub-standard stuff on the train at inflated prices.

The combination of crowded railways, planes and better cars just reduces the emphasis on on-board catering. Once upon a time, the hoi polloi used train for long distances and paid for the posh stuff, hence catering was much ore important. Now they fly or use much better cars to get away from the crowds.

Now.....if I regularly did journeys more than 2.5 hours, I may have a different view. But even on a London to Edinburgh journey....apart from coffee, why not buy your preferred lunch before boarding? It's not that difficult, is it?

 

[DarloRich]

I find it interesting that people cannot go an hour or two without putting food or drink in their mouths
If I am travelling I might take some water with me but that is that. I cannot rely on there being catering which- shock horror - has to be cancelled from time to time. Things happen. (It is not blaming people but but just a fact of life that spare staff cannot be kept in cupboard and bought out just in case of illness or other need.)
If I am travelling long distance I either travel first and take the food offered or buy something before boarding - usually from an off-station supermarket.

Bully for you. I travel second class long distance often having been at work since very early and without having the opportunity to get anything to eat. I rush from a meeting straight to the train. If i want to eat i have to buy it on board. I have to pay for that food btw, not get it free like you jolly chaps in first class. So if we can keep food available for us scum classers i would be grateful.

I enjoy,shock horror, of both eating and drinking and feels it adds to the travel experience so why shouldn't there be an option for me to purchase something?

Is, of course, the correct answer.

 

[HH]

Rail Gourmet are contracted to provide many catering services across the country. Yet, I've always wondered how it works. For example, East Midlands Trains use RG for their Standard refreshment service. Their Customer Hosts wear East Midlands Trains uniform, but their direct employers are RG. So, how is it funded? Do EMT pay RG a set rate per journey or do RG pay EMT for the priviledge of being able to sell on board their trains? Who funds the stock? Also, who decides on the menu and the price each item retails at? I recall that when EMT trialled Cafe En Route, the prices were different to the trolley service i.e. Coca Cola was £1.60, it's normally £2. I'm not complaining, I think that they should charge a premium price, their products are of high quality and they provide a convenience service, I've just always been interested in the railway catering division and how it operates. Thanks for the replies and thanks everyone for making me feel welcome here.

Generally speaking the TOC takes the risk and makes the decisions, so RG is like any third party supplier. However, there are instances where RG takes the risk and the TOC either takes a cut or provides a subsidy. In short, all options are on the table and it's up to the TOC to make a choice from the menu.

 

[elliotjelliot]

I would much rather buy my coffee on board than try and carry lugguage and a disposable cup. Even worse if the catering unit is "landside". Using a ticket gate while carrying a case and a cup of coffee is a recipe for scalded fingers.

The trouble is that on board catering can never be relied upon. I have planned journeys in the past on the basis that I can buy hot food on board only for the advertised service to be unavailable.

I agree that on-board catering offers more convenience than 'landslide' outlets and I also agree that catering cannot be relied upon all the time.

I feel that train operators who operate a catering service would find themselves drawing in more revenue if the on-board catering facilities are advertised. For example, we are told on the platform and by the guard that a catering service is available, however we are not told of the contents or pricing. So one solution would be fixing 'menu cards' either at carriage ends, in vestibules or on the back of toilet doors etc. This would tell the passenger what exactly is available and the price the item is. This makes the service more known and more likely to draw in customers, increasing the incentive for operators to be more reliable with their catering and could lead to a fall in prices.

 

[Gemz91]

.

Now.....if I regularly did journeys more than 2.5 hours, I may have a different view. But even on a London to Edinburgh journey....apart from coffee, why not buy your preferred lunch before boarding? It's not that difficult, is it?

Why bother making a detour on my journey to the station when I can buy my refreshments from the comfort of my seat on the train, or a short stroll to the buffet bar and give me the opportunity to stretch my legs and visit the toilet at the same time. The slightly increased premium I may incur for this pleasure will probably seem insignificant considering the amount of money I'll spend on the journey and day out I'm having anyway.

 

[ag51ruk]

It depends on the contract RG have with the TOC. I believe they hold a contract with all the TOCs that have catering on board apart from XC and ATW (and maybe GC)

Rail Gourmet used to provide the food for Virgin West Coast, but it changed to DHL a few years ago - the on-board staff have always been Virgin employees

 

[jon0844]

Why bother making a detour on my journey to the station when I can buy my refreshments from the comfort of my seat on the train, or a short stroll to the buffet bar and give me the opportunity to stretch my legs and visit the toilet at the same time. The slightly increased premium I may incur for this pleasure will probably seem insignificant considering the amount of money I'll spend on the journey and day out I'm having anyway.

Exactly. I am sure there's a market (indeed when enjoying the train from Carlisle to Settle, I used the trolley because I was on holiday and it was no great expense) on certain trains, at certain times of the day.

I think commuters are out for sure, for reasons I already gave, but if 700s start running fast services from King's Cross to Cambridge then I'm sure someone could make a few quid. They had trolleys before, but we're talking about the need for 2 or 3 of them which wasn't practical.

You could even have the trolley in a fixed location and advertise the service via the PIS.

 

[edwin_m]

They get people on minimum wage (with a little extra commission that gets reduced to cover any losses) to work mostly very long days hauling very heavy trolleys up and down trains without much in the way of a proper break and few rights, and charge high prices for anything they sell. I am not a fan overall of SSP. They do not treat their people well.

SSP also operates most shops in stations, despite what the branding on the shop might say. So SSP will continue to exist even if all on-train catering ceases.

 

[MG11]

Generally speaking the TOC takes the risk and makes the decisions, so RG is like any third party supplier. However, there are instances where RG takes the risk and the TOC either takes a cut or provides a subsidy. In short, all options are on the table and it's up to the TOC to make a choice from the menu.

Thank you for clarifying. I was sure that RG decided on the menu, as it seems similar to SSP shops i.e. same popcorn brand. But then I read a South West Trains 'Meet The Manager' PDF from last year and it semed to imply that SWT created the menu, as per what you say. Thank you to everyone for the insights.

 

[83G/84D]

I can manage for quite a while without food but need a cup of tea every2-3 hours. It's agony travelling long distance on cross country from Cornwall waiting for the trolley to get through after Plymouth!

 

[route101]

I think Scotrail do catering in house .

 

[MG11]

I think Scotrail do catering in house .

I think they do too. They are proud of their local suppliers. On a side note, I know CrossCountry use some Brakes products e.g. Priory Spring water on their NE-SW routes. Their Turbostar trolleys may be different though, the staff uniform seems to be different, as is the equipment, does anyone know if this is Rail Gourmet run?

 

[iainbhx]

I think they do too. They are proud of their local suppliers. On a side note, I know CrossCountry use some Brakes products e.g. Priory Spring water on their NE-SW routes. Their Turbostar trolleys may be different though, the staff uniform seems to be different, as is the equipment, does anyone know if this is Rail Gourmet run?

No, the Turbostar fleet is First On Board, similar set up to RG.

 

[MG11]

No, the Turbostar fleet is First On Board, similar set up to RG.

Interesting, I'd not heard of that company before, thanks.