Quirky or quaint practices on buses in the past

[Brightonboy]

There was an RAF station (long closed) in Lincolnshire which was served by a route between Grimsby and (iirc) Market Rasen where, in the 1970's, the bus would actually go in through the gates and around a couple of blocks of camp roads (without stopping) and then exit the gates again to continue its route. Enhanced security, thanks to the IRA, stopped the practice and it was diverted via the Married Quarters.

 

[Roger1973]

I guess the proliferation of rear engined buses put paid to this kind of extended lifetime.

Oddly enough this photo (on flickr, not my photo or account - shows Maidstone and District Bristol VR HKE 682L as towing vehicle P007) came up on Flickr a few days ago.

Although agree it was a rarity.

Apart from the licensing implications (at one time, you could do pretty much anything if it was on 'trade plates') I wonder if semi-automatic buses with rear engines weren't so good at pulling the a failed bus.

There was an RAF station (long closed) in Lincolnshire which was served by a route between Grimsby and (iirc) Market Rasen where, in the 1970's, the bus would actually go in through the gates and around a couple of blocks of camp roads (without stopping) and then exit the gates again to continue its route. Enhanced security, thanks to the IRA, stopped the practice and it was diverted via the Married Quarters.

Could be RAF Binbrook (now Brookenby village.) Fairly sure that buses ran through RAF Waddington, south of Lincoln, in the 1990s. They don't seem to now, but not sure when it stopped and whether this was a bus operators' commercial decision or a security measure.

(edit to add - Waddington did involve going through guarded gates but there were bus stops inside the camp. Buses also ran to RAF Swinderby, but from memory, the housing / married quarters were outside the gated bit, unlike Waddington where everything is - or at least was - inside the gates.)

And buses run to Foulness Island - one or Roger French (Bus and Train User blog) themes this year was 'quirky bus routes' - Stephensons' route 14 to Foulness was only ranked as number 4 in the top 10.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There was an RAF station (long closed) in Lincolnshire which was served by a route between Grimsby and (iirc) Market Rasen where, in the 1970's, the bus would actually go in through the gates and around a couple of blocks of camp roads (without stopping) and then exit the gates again to continue its route. Enhanced security, thanks to the IRA, stopped the practice and it was diverted via the Married Quarters.

Same used to happen at Blandford Camp where a soldier would get on and ride shotgun round the camp with only service folk and families allowed off/on.

We had a thread a few years ago about similar set ups e.g. Shoeburyness, Leeming etc

 

[Brightonboy]

Could be RAF Binbrook (now Brookenby village.) Fairly sure that buses ran through RAF Waddington, south of Lincoln, in the 1990s. They don't seem to now, but not sure when it stopped and whether this was a bus operators' commercial decision or a security measure.

(edit to add - Waddington did involve going through guarded gates but there were bus stops inside the camp. Buses also ran to RAF Swinderby, but from memory, the housing / married quarters were outside the gated bit, unlike Waddington where everything is - or at least was - inside the gates.)

And buses run to Foulness Island - one or Roger French (Bus and Train User blog) themes this year was 'quirky bus routes' - Stephensons' route 14 to Foulness was only ranked as number 4 in the top 10.

It was indeed RAF Binbrook... Swinderby actually had 2 sites, 1 either side of a public road whereas Binbrook was all private roads other than the Married Quarters which were outside the wire. At one time, the gate guards at Binbrook were required to travel aboard the buses whilst they were on camp to ensure there was no alighting or boarding en-route.

 

[Cesarcollie]

More a case of bus companies finding it easier, cheaper and legally compliant to subcontract it out.

The rules around recovery have changed over the years. It is now a requirement to suspend to tow, so a converted bus is no longer any good. In any event, as noted above, the H& S rules, specialised kit, and staff training requirements means most bus companies find it more cost effective to contract out.

 

[Statto]

In my home town, Sunderland, some Corporation bus routes could involve quite intricate interworking between bus routes.

For example, in theory -
Service 1 was Grangetown - Town Centre - Dene Estate
Service 7 was Town Centre - Docks
Service 15 was Town Centre - High Barnes
Service 25 was Town Centre - Witherwack Estate

And during the daytime a bus left Grangetown as a Service 1 to Town Centre and Dene Estate but returned from Dene Estate as Service 15 to Town Centre and High Barnes. Then return from High Barnes as Service 25 to Town Centre and Witherwack Estate

But then in the evening the bus left Grangetown as a Service 7 to Town Centre and Docks, returning from Docks as Service 1 to Town Centre and Dene Estate.

Not too sure how the poor passengers were supposed to know which bus was which. This stopped in about 1974 after Tyne and Wear PTE came into existance.

Burnley & Pendle has a group of routes called the Mainline with the core route is Padiham - Burnley - Nelson - Colne, with similar working arrangements, they're now are in the M series, all routes now start/terminate at Burnley rather than operating through, however back in the day they used to be numbered 20 to 29 & had complex working arrangements, buses never returned to the same destination, this is an example of a bus working

23 Barnoldswick - Accrington
21 Accrington - Trawden
24 Trawden - Hapton
28 Hapton - Colne

Here's a timetable from 2004 that shows core route working pattern.

Lancashire L61 250104.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[RT4038]

The rules around recovery have changed over the years. It is now a requirement to suspend to tow, so a converted bus is no longer any good. In any event, as noted above, the H& S rules, specialised kit, and staff training requirements means most bus companies find it more cost effective to contract out.

In particular that towing vehicles now require an HGV licence to drive them. Bus Companies do not wish to train their mechanics with an HGV, thereby equipping the staff with a valuable skill to transfer to another job. Much better to have an outside contractor to do the towing, and keeping the mechanics doing their job without interruption.

 

[SCH117X]

Nottingham City Transport tried the outbound from the city centre numbering system in the 1980s and it was quickly abandoned as passengers were confused.

Harrogate & District had a brief period when the Knaresborough services were linked to the Jennyfield service but due to the imbalance in journeys two services went to Bilton instead. Numbering was 1 & 2 due to different routing beyond Knaresborough bus station but with those from Knaresborough to Bilton niumbered B1 or B1A . Again some confusion occurred to passengers, not helped by drivers showing the wrong number - once saw a B1 on the Jennyfield route. Was resolved by adopting three digit numbers 101,102,201,202 with the first digit indicating Knaresborough-Jennyfield (1) or Knaresborough-Bilton (2) with the last digit indicating the route beyond Knaresborough bus station. All now history as the only cross Harrogate service, excluding Dalesbus ones, now is the 36 Leeds-Ripon.

 

[WestAnglian]

Not technically 'on buses' but:

Old buses and coaches being repurposed by their operators as breakdown vehicles, used to be relatively common but I don't think I've seen one this century. Does anyone know if there are any still in use?

Don't know, but LT used to have one or more STLs converted to tree lopping vehicles.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Pre-deregulation, Greater Manchester Transport's Stockport garage had a system of random interworking between all services terminating at the bus station. The few routes that required single-deckers did nominally have a regular pattern, but some journeys on other routes were slipped in too, as the garage had rather more single-deckers than strictly required.

This system gave a great deal of flexibility in tailoring bus workings to get the most out of what were quite strict requirements on drivers' duty length, mix of work etc, but took a long time to compile manually. The requirement to change individual services more rapidly for commercial reasons meant it did not survive deregulation.

Just reminded me - unusually for an urban operation, some Stockport town routes ran on an increased frequency during the day on Friday, as one of the town's market days. I think the 317 to Reddish lasted until early 1982 when it was incorporated in the 203 through to Manchester.

 

[DunsBus]

LRT in Edinburgh had a period where the inner and outer circles on circular routes used different numbers for each direction - 1/6, 2/12, 19/39, 42/46 and 32/52. In all cases the lower service number denoted the inner circle.
Four (1/6, 19/39, 32/52, 42/46) were renumbered during the early months of 1981 and of these, three of them used recycled service numbers for the outer circles. Only one number, the 52, was entirely new.

The 2/12 became an inner and outer circle in early 1987, having been until then two linked services run as a circle with screens changing at Broomhouse and at Niddrie.

Whilst this may not be quirky in itself this destination screen used for all five of these services definitely was: "Circle". The joke at the time was that it was the only Edinburgh suburb which didn't appear on any street maps.

The 34/35, which was also a circle, predated these changes and wasn't affected, and nor were the 17/47 and 24/29. The latter two were casualties of deregulation in 1986. On these three services the lower number was the outer circle and they weren't screened as circles; also, the outer ends (Silverknowes and Marchmont) of the 24/29 didn't run at nights or on Sundays whilst the 17/47 ran its full route (Muirhouse - West End - Melville Drive) right up until the last bus at night on Mondays to Saturdays, but went no further south than the West End on Sundays.

 

[nw1]

LRT in Edinburgh had a period where the inner and outer circles on circular routes used different numbers for each direction - 1/6, 2/12, 19/39, 42/46 and 32/52. In all cases the lower service number denoted the inner circle.

Apparently Southampton used to have a circular suburb-to-suburb route which was 4 in one direction and 6 in the other, before my time. By my time, these routes had transformed into two separate services, the 4 and 6, which together formed useful cross-suburb links but on different routings. The 4 was something like City Centre-Bitterne Station-Bitterne Park-Portswood-University-Shirley-Totton, while the 6 was something like City Centre-Woolston-Weston-Bitterne-Portswood-University-Shirley-City Centre and reverse (i.e. 6 in both directions).

Adjacent numbers, or numbers differing by 10, for circulars seems quite normal (Guildford used to have the 232/242 Wood Street circulars which then became the G10/G11 and the 12/13), but other pairs of numbers seem a bit stranger.

 

[The exile]

LRT in Edinburgh had a period where the inner and outer circles on circular routes used different numbers for each direction - 1/6, 2/12, 19/39, 42/46 and 32/52. In all cases the lower service number denoted the inner circle.
Four (1/6, 19/39, 32/52, 42/46) were renumbered during the early months of 1981 and of these, three of them used recycled service numbers for the outer circles.

Whilst this may not be quirky in itself this destination screen used for all five of these services definitely was: "Circle". The joke at the time was that it was the only Edinburgh suburb which didn't appear on any street maps.

One of two, surely? (The other being “Part Route”). Think the rear-door predecessors to the Atlanteans on the 1 (was that the last 2po route?) used to display “Clermiston Circle”.

 

[JKP]

One of two, surely? (The other being “Part Route”). Think the rear-door predecessors to the Atlanteans on the 1 (was that the last 2po route?) used to display “Clermiston Circle”.

Buses in Edinburgh still show “Part Route” today.

 

[DunsBus]

Think the rear-door predecessors to the Atlanteans on the 1 (was that the last 2po route?) used to display “Clermiston Circle”.

They did, as did the Atlanteans initially. The 1 was the last crew-to-OMO changeover, in October 1980 with Ann McCrossan doing the conducting honours aboard Titan 665 on the final journey (not the formidable Annie Boyle as is often misreported, though she did conduct on the 1 earlier that day). That was historic for three reasons - last Edinburgh OMO conversion, last Edinburgh halfcab and last Edinburgh conductress.

Conductors were still used by LRT on rush buses for a few months after that, finally ending in March 1981 with Charlie Page conducting on Atlantean 532.

 

[Mark L]

Apparently Southampton used to have a circular suburb-to-suburb route which was 4 in one direction and 6 in the other, before my time. By my time, these routes had transformed into two separate services, the 4 and 6, which together formed useful cross-suburb links but on different routings. The 4 was something like City Centre-Bitterne Station-Bitterne Park-Portswood-University-Shirley-Totton, while the 6 was something like City Centre-Woolston-Weston-Bitterne-Portswood-University-Shirley-City Centre and reverse (i.e. 6 in both directions).

Adjacent numbers, or numbers differing by 10, for circulars seems quite normal (Guildford used to have the 232/242 Wood Street circulars which then became the G10/G11 and the 12/13), but other pairs of numbers seem a bit stranger.

For most of the 1970s Wilts (later Hants) & Dorset town services in Basingstoke were numbered in the 100s (later renumbered to 300s) for routes heading roughly north and 200s (then 400s) for southbound buses. Many services operated out of the town centre one way round a housing estate and returned via a different route, with a different number. By way of an example, service 411 would run from Park Prewett (a Victorian asylum, as they were termed, on the northern edge of town) to Brighton Hill (a late 60s/early 70s housing estate to the south) running via Viables and Harrow Way. It would then head back as a 312, via Hatchwarren Lane and Sheppard Road. As an asdie, the Brighton Hill services were invariably operated with single deck, one man, buses on Monday - Saturday but with crew opertaed Lodekkas on Sunday. The single deck cohort included dual door Bristol LHs - Hants/Wilts & Dorset (which were under common managment from 1964 until the W&D operation was formally subsumed within its larger southern neighbour in 1972) were the only operator to order this variant. I don't recall ever actually seeing the centre door used!

 

[Roger1973]

As an asdie, the Brighton Hill services were invariably operated with single deck, one man, buses on Monday - Saturday but with crew opertaed Lodekkas on Sunday.

There were a few places something like that happened - usually because it could be done at minimal cost on the crew vehicle / duty schedule but would have meant an extra duty or two on the OPO schedule.

A fairly long standing one on London Country in the 70s was Orpington / Ramsden Estate route 493 (predecessor of current route R9) which was worked by single deck OPO buses from Dunton Green on weekdays, inter-worked with the 431 / 471 corridor towards Sevenoaks which by then didn't run on Sundays. An evening and Sunday service was added using layover time on Swanley's route 477, scheduled for Routemaster 'coach' RMC type (although there was a brief spell where Swanley's double deck allocation was replaced with hired Eastbourne Regent V's.)

A later example on London Transport 'red buses' was from Mitcham to Merton Garage via the Phipps Bridge Estate, where the Sunday service was provided with an extension of Routemaster route 88 rather than weekday OPO route 200 for some years in the mid 80s (before the 88 went OPO on Sundays.)

 

[nw1]

Pre-deregulation, Greater Manchester Transport's Stockport garage had a system of random interworking between all services terminating at the bus station.

To be fair, this still happens in some places, presumably for operational reasons e.g. ensuring double-deckers find their way onto the busiest school, college and perhaps even commuting/leisure services.

The Totton side of Bluestar out of Southampton has certain patterns (often the 11 and 12 interwork with each other, the 8 often interworks with a 4, while the 9 often doesn't interwork) but there are plenty of exceptions. The 4s that can't interwork with the 8 (arr. xx00 and dep xx25) in particular has just about no pattern at all - and the 4 is notable for being a mix of Totton and Empress Road, adding to the unpredictability.

On a Saturday this seems to be arranged so that several consecutive 11/12 outbound services around 1700 are operated by deckers, though whether this is by design I'm not sure.

Back in c. 1984/5 at Guildford, the same could be said of Alder Valley services - very little in the way of patterns. Sometimes a vehicle on a longer-distance route would come in, operate one of the town services, then go out again - but never in a predictable way. The 228 Grange Park town service was notable for this as it had exactly 30-mins running time on a 30 min headway, which would have required an inefficient 30-min layover if it were to be self-contained. ISTR the unpredictability of Guildford Alder Valley workings persisted even after deregulation though with some exceptions - e.g the Cranleigh routes became self-contained running out of their own garage.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I guess the proliferation of rear engined buses put paid to this kind of extended lifetime.

The other posters have given the answer to this (all absolutely spot on) but thought i'd chuck in that RoadCar did rather crudely lop the top decks off two Atlanteans (one Northern Counties, the other ECW IIRC) making them single deck tow buses which had fairly long lives in the role, even moving around the Traction (later Stagecoach) group. I think they were certainly in the minority with these type of conversions as I can't think of any others!!

 

[EE59710]

For most of the 1970s Wilts (later Hants) & Dorset town services in Basingstoke were numbered in the 100s (later renumbered to 300s) for routes heading roughly north and 200s (then 400s) for southbound buses. Many services operated out of the town centre one way round a housing estate and returned via a different route, with a different number. By way of an example, service 411 would run from Park Prewett (a Victorian asylum, as they were termed, on the northern edge of town) to Brighton Hill (a late 60s/early 70s housing estate to the south) running via Viables and Harrow Way. It would then head back as a 312, via Hatchwarren Lane and Sheppard Road. As an asdie, the Brighton Hill services were invariably operated with single deck, one man, buses on Monday - Saturday but with crew opertaed Lodekkas on Sunday. The single deck cohort included dual door Bristol LHs - Hants/Wilts & Dorset (which were under common managment from 1964 until the W&D operation was formally subsumed within its larger southern neighbour in 1972) were the only operator to order this variant. I don't recall ever actually seeing the centre door used!

There were a few places something like that happened - usually because it could be done at minimal cost on the crew vehicle / duty schedule but would have meant an extra duty or two on the OPO schedule.

A fairly long standing one on London Country in the 70s was Orpington / Ramsden Estate route 493 (predecessor of current route R9) which was worked by single deck OPO buses from Dunton Green on weekdays, inter-worked with the 431 / 471 corridor towards Sevenoaks which by then didn't run on Sundays. An evening and Sunday service was added using layover time on Swanley's route 477, scheduled for Routemaster 'coach' RMC type (although there was a brief spell where Swanley's double deck allocation was replaced with hired Eastbourne Regent V's.)

A later example on London Transport 'red buses' was from Mitcham to Merton Garage via the Phipps Bridge Estate, where the Sunday service was provided with an extension of Routemaster route 88 rather than weekday OPO route 200 for some years in the mid 80s (before the 88 went OPO on Sundays.)

In the early 70's Basingstoke's OMO rota on Sundays only used to cover the 76 all the way to Salisbury and back at 1130, 1530 & 1930 normally using the RE that was allocated to Basingstoke, which was a big chunk of additional work that wasn't there in the week.
On Mondays to Saturdays the 76/102 was totally dominated by Andover Depot bar a few isolated BZ workings to Overton Mills/Andover.

Basingstoke also seemed to have a policy of attempting to keep the same vehicle on the same car working every day as well so you always knew normally what bus was going to turn up on your journey.

The through workings predated the renumbering scheme as despite the offical timetable suggesting a route ran out and back from the Bus Station in practice the return trip would always show the route and destination for its next trip out of the bus station.( ie. The 118 to Kempshott would return from Kempshott displaying 128 Oakridge Road) think the renumbering scheme was attempt to regularise what happenened in practise but didn't suceed too well. It was a bit confusing when we first moved there in 1968 finding the bus turn up at the stop with a totally different route number and destination to what you were expecting!

 

[cool110]

In particular that towing vehicles now require an HGV licence to drive them.

Not true, the exception allowing recovery vehicles to be driven with either a HGV or bus licence when recovering a bus still exists. (page 5 of INF52)

 

[Dai Corner]

Talking of interworking, Newport Transport still do a lot so a problem in one suburb (often the Spytty Retail Park) soon spreads everywhere.

They also use their 20 odd year Tridents for normal services before/between/after school runs but manage without them on non-school days.

 

[RT4038]

Not true, the exception allowing recovery vehicles to be driven with either a HGV or bus licence when recovering a bus still exists. (page 5 of INF52)

Learn something every day!

 

[mangad]

To be fair, this still happens in some places, presumably for operational reasons e.g. ensuring double-deckers find their way onto the busiest school, college and perhaps even commuting/leisure services.

It happens in lots of places. Including Stockport depot to this very day!

 

[Romsey]

For most of the 1970s Wilts (later Hants) & Dorset town services in Basingstoke were numbered in the 100s (later renumbered to 300s) for routes heading roughly north and 200s (then 400s) for southbound buses. Many services operated out of the town centre one way round a housing estate and returned via a different route, with a different number. By way of an example, service 411 would run from Park Prewett (a Victorian asylum, as they were termed, on the northern edge of town) to Brighton Hill (a late 60s/early 70s housing estate to the south) running via Viables and Harrow Way. It would then head back as a 312, via Hatchwarren Lane and Sheppard Road. As an asdie, the Brighton Hill services were invariably operated with single deck, one man, buses on Monday - Saturday but with crew opertaed Lodekkas on Sunday. The single deck cohort included dual door Bristol LHs - Hants/Wilts & Dorset (which were under common managment from 1964 until the W&D operation was formally subsumed within its larger southern neighbour in 1972) were the only operator to order this variant. I don't recall ever actually seeing the centre door used!

From what I understood at he time, the centre door wouldn't work, parts were "borrowed " to keep the front doors working!
It did look silly using dual door buses on rural routes like 36/236 Romsey to Salisbury via Lockerley and Dean....

 

[nw1]

The mention of the Hindhead area reminded me of a couple of oddities from the late 1990s. One was Woodside Road in Chiddingfold which the evening and Sunday 71 would serve but no main daytime route did! The Sunday 19 was similar serving roads that had no main route as well but the details escape me as I never got to travel on the Sunday version of the route. I recall the turning point for the 19 at Churt involving reversing into a very narrow lane next to an awkwardly shaped old building. I gather that’s not totally unusual though as the 51 in Selsey reversed into Seal Road and I believe still does.

I don’t remember Alder Valley in great detail but the interworking and creativeness of the Stagecoach Hants & Surrey schedules during the 1990s was quite remarkable! It was all over the network too, from the combinations of 18/19/60/71/92 on the Haslemere side (and even then the 19 was heavily linked to the 17 at Aldershot) to the completely mixed up Camberley & Farnborough routes linking with Aldershot on/off routes 49/50/56. Some routes largely stayed on their own such as 1, 4/5, 20/20A but there was still a lot going on. A grand old time!

I do remember a couple of occasions when I observed Stagecoach Hants and Surrey in quite a bit of detail. One was in 1993, shortly after the through 260, later 60, Bognor-Guildford was introduced and one was in the year 2000, just after the 60 and 70 were separated.

I didn't really visit Aldershot much but I do remember at Guildford the patterns were somewhat unpredictable. As well as the A3100 corridor (260, 271, 292 - the old AV numbers were retained for a while) you had the 290 (formerly the 260, Godalming via Compton, renumbered for obvious reasons) and the 16 which was a brand new Guildford-Farnham-Shortheath service, on the opposite half hour to the X64 to Winchester (or was it still the 215 then? I forget).

One issue was that half the 260s were Coastline-operated, forcing them to be self-contained, and that forced a 40-min layover at Guildford. The natural pattern would be for the 260 to interwork with the 271, and for the Hants and Surrey 260s this often happened but the Coastlines could not. This had a knock-on effect whereby the 271 then had to interwork with something else, and so on - luckily plenty of options!

Then the 271 would become the 19 at Haslemere and head over to Aldershot. As you say the 19 then often then worked out as the 17 I think, and I believe the 16 and 17 also interworked at Shortheath so you'd potentially get the 271 becoming the 19, then the 17, then the 16, and the vehicle would wind up back at Guildford after a big circle!

This was also a transitional era, with Nationals mixed with Dennis Darts. The double-deck workings were still solid VRs, if I remember right.

By 2000 the 60 and 70 had become separated which ended the complexity necessary to accommodate Coastline vehicles at Guildford. The 70 often then worked out as a 71, then a 19 to Aldershot, effectively "returning to base", though I think there were exceptions. At Aldershot itself things appeared to be unpredictable, as you say, based on the short visit I made there. Also by this stage the 16 had disappeared while the 46 has been introduced, on the former 290 route and extending through to Aldershot via Elstead. Rarely for the deregulation area this was a brand new route and offered a better service than either NBC or Alder Valley days!

 

[markymark2000]

Talking of interworking, Newport Transport still do a lot so a problem in one suburb (often the Spytty Retail Park) soon spreads everywhere.

Warrington is the other operator that I know is really bad for cross networking.

It makes efficient duties but as you say, it isn't half a mess when it comes to punctuality if something bad happens and the whole network can grind to a halt.

 

[nw1]

Warrington is the other operator that I know is really bad for cross networking.

It makes efficient duties but as you say, it isn't half a mess when it comes to punctuality if something bad happens and the whole network can grind to a halt.

In my experience I find that this critique of interworking is a bit overstated - indeed the occasional injection of a fresh vehicle into a route's schedule can provide a rare on-time journey if the route is heavily affected by delays! Equally well you can argue that if vehicles remain on one route and that route is affected by delays, they just get later and later and later.

As long as there is a reasonable recovery time between journeys, I find interworking doesn't really cause problems in practice.

 

[DGP]

Others have mentioned Circular routes which reminded me of another Sunderland Corporation oddity. Service 19 was a 'd' shaped service which started at Seaburn in the north, then travelled southbound into the Town Centre, westbound out along Chester Road to the General Hospital, then two sharp right turns into Hylton Road to return eastbound into the Town Centre. Buses in this direction simply displayed "Circle" as their destination, which given the lack of paper timetables or maps seemed incredibly customer-unfriendly. Also after about 7pm, at the General Hospital, buses turned a sharp right then sharp LEFT onto Hylton Road to travel WESTBOUND as Service 9 to Helmsdale Road.

 

[Old Walter]

I observed Stagecoach Hants and Surrey in quite a bit of detail. One was in 1993, shortly after the through 260, later 60, Bognor-Guildford was introduced and one was in the year 2000, just after the 60 and 70 were separated.

One issue was that half the 260s were Coastline-operated, forcing them to be self-contained, and that forced a 40-min layover at Guildford.

Thanks for the post, stuff like this is fascinating and brings back a few memories. I got to experience the 60 during the summer of 1998 and recall looking at the timetable and wondering about the times in Guildford not matching up, creating the big layover. By this time Hants & Surrey were operating the route with Coastline - I believe Haslemere outstation covered it but I did speak to an Aldershot driver who had worked down to Bognor.

That’s reminded me of something else, another bit of Hants & Surrey/Coastline operation went out of Aldershot on the 38 to Portsmouth (and the H&S Petersfield outstation was involved too). This ended around 1998 where Coastline took over the route full time resulting in some very lengthy dead running. From memory the last two 38s to Aldershot ran back all the way to Farlington empty.

When Aldershot lost the work on the 38 the ‘B’ Rota drivers (the Portsmouth rota) largely got forced on to ‘D’ rota which was mainly Aldershot and Farnham local routes. Lots and lots of 14/15, 4/5 and the odd run to Guildford. The same driver who told me about Bognor was a displaced Portsmouth rota driver and said people weren’t happy (which I can imagine if you get used to such long runs).

The big circle you describe is very interesting and more intricate than the combinations I saw. I remember the 1420 19 left Aldershot and did the usual 71 at Haslemere, becoming a short working 60A back to Haslemere and making its way back to Aldershot as an 18 getting back at around 1830. Another odd bit with that is when I observed this, the first run on that duty (Aldershot duty 26 if I remember rightly) was the dead run to Odiham, then the Hants & Surrey jaunt to Basingstoke on the 200, returning as the Farnborough College 30. The gap between this and the big circuit was worked on the 4/5.

There was another notable evening duty where a bus that had been on Camberley/Farnborough routes all day became the 1730 50 from Aldershot to Camberley (when the late driver took it over), back to Aldershot as a 50, then 20B Guildford, 71 Haslemere, 18 Aldershot getting back around 2200.

I agree with you about interworked routes and to be honest I would see them as a benefit to drivers. Looking at the upcoming Basingstoke changes there’s potential to do nine trips on the 6 in one go, as well as eleven trips in one half on the weekend 20. It is possible to break that all up but as we’ve seen that doesn’t seem to be the way these days and hasn’t been in many places for a long time. In fact until writing this out I’d forgotten about some of the oddities and how involved the scheduling was many years ago.