Quirky or quaint practices on buses in the past

[John Luxton]

Delivering newspapers to outlying newsagents and delivery people. Between 1978 and 1982 i did a lot of journies on routes out of Exeter and Western National Devon General would often take bundles of the afternoon Exeter Express and Echo newspaper out on the afternoon rural departures and stop off at shops or houses where I presume some delivery service worked from.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

In my experience I find that this critique of interworking is a bit overstated - indeed the occasional injection of a fresh vehicle into a route's schedule can provide a rare on-time journey if the route is heavily affected by delays! Equally well you can argue that if vehicles remain on one route and that route is affected by delays, they just get later and later and later.

As long as there is a reasonable recovery time between journeys, I find interworking doesn't really cause problems in practice.

It very much depends on circumstances and reasons.

We sometimes do it where one route cycles in just over the frequency time and interworks with a route that cycles in substantially less so less resource is needed to run the combined - so a route that cycles in 1hr 15 mins and a route that cycles in 30-mins can be covered by 2 buses on an hourly frequency efficiently rather than 3 inefficiently without massively risking reliability.
This can be taken an extra layer to interwork wider, one particular reason being to get buses and drivers back to base facilities. I worked with one town network, though I wasn't the scheduler for it, where the entire town network interworked to get the buses to pass the depot for driver changeovers to save on ferry costs or paying for a break room in town (& the country routes were interlinked as half passed the depot and half didn't. These are the types of interworking that tend to be spotted as problematical as they will be the ones that transfer unreliability across the network and because they are done consistently and widely they do so across the day so it can be seen to knock on. In many ways it is no different to running cross town services, you have the opertional and commercial advantages of being able to offer extra links and offers but risk delays in one part of the network affecting other parts of the network otherwise unrelated.
We sometimes do it to actually help an unreliable route which is tight for running time by interworking it with a reliable route with plenty of recovery time. We have one where we have an hourly service that is tight, with barely more than 5-mins recovery in a 2-hour cycle, and struggles with reliability and interwork it with an hourly cycle that is slack and reliable, with over 20-mins recovery in a 2-hour cycle, and so improving the whole (too much break in a cycle can lead to complacency with some drivers who, knowing they have plenty of slack in the portion, can be late in starting a trip knowing they can recover later to get longer or extra layovers).
I do sometimes do it to make the duties or bus workings work - either to get the right bus in the right place for busy journeys or to get duty time and driving hours to balance. This is the most risky and does need to be done with careful consideration of the reliability of services and journeys, often with close consultation with the local operation teams, to avoid creating a random reliability issue just to make the duties nicer.

 

[DunsBus]

Delivering newspapers to outlying newsagents and delivery people. Between 1978 and 1982 i did a lot of journies on routes out of Exeter and Western National Devon General would often take bundles of the afternoon Exeter Express and Echo newspaper out on the afternoon rural departures and stop off at shops or houses where I presume some delivery service worked from.

We had similar in the Scottish Borders. The 1150 Lowland service 30 from Edinburgh to Kelso (connecting for Jedburgh - buses were screened Jedburgh/Kelso) would be loaded up at Edinburgh bus station with the first editions of that day's Edinburgh Evening News, which were then dropped off at various points along the A68 south of Soutra Hill. This was of course back in the days when it was a respected local title and not the sorry excuse for a paper that it is now.

The Saturday sports editions of the Evening News (known as the Pink News, as it was printed on pink paper) were also transported south similarly at one time, loaded on to buses due to leave for the Borders at around 6pm so they could then be dropped off en-route.
A friend of mine who was an inspector at the bus station recalled one occasion when a driver, who had gone to answer a call of nature, came back to his bus to find a pile of Pink Newses on the steps. He kicked them off the steps on to the stance and drove off. Attempts to get in touch with the driver failed, so no-one in Galashiels, Selkirk and Hawick got their "Pink News" that weekend.

A few days later my friend spotted that same driver at Edinburgh bus station, again about to answer a call of nature before heading south. I'm not going to repeat the actual language he used when recounting this story to me, but he noticed that the engine had been left running and seized the chance to get his revenge by booking the driver, when he returned, for leaving the engine running whilst unattended.

 

[markymark2000]

It very much depends on circumstances and reasons.

In the examples you've given, it seems like mostly smaller, logical interworking. It gives a benefit for driver swaps at the depot, or you can promote through links etc. By the sounds of it, the interworking cycles are consistent as well A > B > C > A.
Newport and Warrington both have driver changes and things in the bus station (so there's no benefit there) and because every trip runs onto a completely different route, they don't get the benefits of promoting through links.
For example, Warrington has this awful one on Sundays https://bustimes.org/trips/561111363/block?date=2026-01-11. In the whole day, the only time there is longer than 8 minutes layover is at 11am in Altrincham. Otherwise layovers are 4/5 minutes and never does the same round trip twice in the whole day. Between 2pm and 6pm, the bus does a Westy, Penketh, Callands, Martinscroft then runs out to Altrincham, with layovers of 4, 4, 6, and 5 minutes respectively. Here, there and everywhere with minimal layover in between.

 

[nw1]

Thanks for the post, stuff like this is fascinating and brings back a few memories.

No worries!

I got to experience the 60 during the summer of 1998 and recall looking at the timetable and wondering about the times in Guildford not matching up, creating the big layover. By this time Hants & Surrey were operating the route with Coastline - I believe Haslemere outstation covered it but I did speak to an Aldershot driver who had worked down to Bognor.

That’s reminded me of something else, another bit of Hants & Surrey/Coastline operation went out of Aldershot on the 38 to Portsmouth (and the H&S Petersfield outstation was involved too). This ended around 1998 where Coastline took over the route full time resulting in some very lengthy dead running. From memory the last two 38s to Aldershot ran back all the way to Farlington empty.

Yes I remember the 38, and its similarity with the 260/60. Also remember it being mixed Hants and Surrey and Coastline. Was a bit later: I remember it in 1996, and it was introduced early enough for Nationals to run some journeys in the early days.

I know the 38 ran to Havant originally (when it was mixed H&S and Coastline) before becoming an express to Portsmouth later. The latter is when I think it went over fully to Coastline.

I also know the 38 no longer reached Aldershot by 2000. It was definitely then two 18s an hour, one running through to Haslemere and one terminating at Whitehill. (I can't get my head round the 18 no longer extending through to Haslemere: that section through Grayshott currently gets a far worse service than it did in the 80s, 90s, 00s and even early 10s with the 268 and later the 18. Can't remember what date the 18 no longer reached Haslemere but I know it still worked through in the early 10s as I saw it at Haslemere a few times).

The big circle you describe is very interesting and more intricate than the combinations I saw. I remember the 1420 19 left Aldershot and did the usual 71 at Haslemere, becoming a short working 60A back to Haslemere and making its way back to Aldershot as an 18 getting back at around 1830. Another odd bit with that is when I observed this, the first run on that duty (Aldershot duty 26 if I remember rightly) was the dead run to Odiham, then the Hants & Surrey jaunt to Basingstoke on the 200, returning as the Farnborough College 30. The gap between this and the big circuit was worked on the 4/5

Just for clarification I can't remember a specific example of the big circle, but given that the 71 and 19 just about always interworked at Haslemere as did the 16/17 at Shortheath, and the times of the 17 and 19 at Aldershot matched up, I would presume it did at least a few hours during the day.

You have reminded me of the departure times out of Aldershot: I do remember the 19 leaving at xx20 and arriving at xx40, with the 17 on the opposite half-hour. As Aldershot to Shortheath was perhaps 25 mins or so, that would support the 17 then working through to Guildford as the 16.

EDIT: I misremembered the 17 continuing in its original form by 2000, it did not and became a two-hourly service (see: https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=258a8582-338e-48f2-b549-f3fbede589ff). The 46 took up the fourth journey from Aldershot to Farnham each hour.

There was another notable evening duty where a bus that had been on Camberley/Farnborough routes all day became the 1730 50 from Aldershot to Camberley (when the late driver took it over), back to Aldershot as a 50, then 20B Guildford, 71 Haslemere, 18 Aldershot getting back around 2200.

Having been used to Hindhead depot (which had gone by this time) I do remember thinking it was quite a novelty for ex-Hindhead routes to interwork with north-of-Aldershot routes.

In fact it went further than that: after seeing a map from 1996 on Timetable World I'm reminded that for a short while, the 17 and 19 worked on to Camberley, and the 20 ran through to Yateley - the 17/19 and the two 20s forming the quarter-hourly service on that corridor. This was the same era as the original joint-worked 38. I believe the Camberley corridor had become the 1 by September 1997, when the 17, 19 and 20 presumably reverted to terminating at Aldershot.

 

[DelW]

... Also by this stage the 16 had disappeared while the 46 has been introduced, on the former 290 route and extending through to Aldershot via Elstead. Rarely for the deregulation area this was a brand new route and offered a better service than either NBC or Alder Valley days!

Just a very minor correction, the 46 runs to Farnham, not Aldershot. An unusual feature is that services head south from Elstead towards Thursley, then turn round by reversing into a side road (Woolfords Lane) and heading back up to Elstead.

I've also been on a 46 that met another coming other way on a narrow stretch of the road between Elstead and Hurtmore. They were unable to pass each other, and in the end our driver turned the engine off, got out and acted as banksman for the other bus to reverse back to a wider section of road. The delights of rural bus operations even in busy Surrey.

 

[nw1]

Just a very minor correction, the 46 runs to Farnham, not Aldershot. An unusual feature is that services head south from Elstead towards Thursley, then turn round by reversing into a side road (Woolfords Lane) and heading back up to Elstead.

I've also been on a 46 that met another coming other way on a narrow stretch of the road between Elstead and Hurtmore. They were unable to pass each other, and in the end our driver turned the engine off, got out and acted as banksman for the other bus to reverse back to a wider section of road. The delights of rural bus operations even in busy Surrey.

I'm fairly sure the 46 used to work all the way through to Aldershot, around 2000 (which was the era I was referring to). EDIT: have confirmed this (https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=258a8582-338e-48f2-b549-f3fbede589ff)

I presume the current truncation at Farnham is because it's now run by Guildford, rather than Aldershot? In 2000, of course, Stagecoach Guildford depot didn't exist and Aldershot ran everything Hants and Surrey.

 

[DelW]

I'm fairly sure the 46 used to work all the way through to Aldershot, around 2000 (which was the era I was referring to). I think it went via Badshot Lea rather than the standard Weybourne route.

I presume the current truncation at Farnham is because it's now run by Guildford, rather than Aldershot? In 2000, of course, Stagecoach Guildford depot didn't exist and Aldershot ran everything Hants and Surrey.

Yes, you may well be right that it was different then, I've only used it in more recent times, worked from Guildford depot.

 

[nw1]

Yes, you may well be right that it was different then, I've only used it in more recent times, worked from Guildford depot.

Have confirmed above. It didn't go via Badshot Lea, but via Weybourne, replacing the 17 as the fourth bus per hour on that corridor.

 

[Geswedey]

Route numbering in London was at one time logical as many on here will know.
From the depths of my memory :
1-200 central London (red) bus routes;
200-299 a mixture of central london (red) bus routes and previous trolleybus routes (eg 629 became 269);
300-399 north of London country services;
400-499 south of London country services;
500 -599 these were mostly central London Red Arrow services but there may have been others;
600-699 trolleybus routes (often the numbering followed the bus route, so 629 followed the 29 route);
700-799 Green Line Coaches;
800-899 I seem to recall these were country area express services? These may fall into the definition of quirky.
I don't remember any 9xx routes;
Night buses were prefixed by N (eg N29) but they didn't always have the same route as the daytime numbered route.

200 numbered routes were originally single deck, 800 routes were mainly New Town Town routes in Harlow and Stevenage, although the 803 was express peak hours only, there was an 854 in the southern area if I recall correctly in or near Crawley

Glyn

 

[90019]

Whilst this may not be quirky in itself this destination screen used for all five of these services definitely was: "Circle". The joke at the time was that it was the only Edinburgh suburb which didn't appear on any street maps.

As a small curiosity, whenever the 55 plate B7 single decks 131-135 had their front blinds updated to add Ratho, the LED side screens weren't changed - so screening them for Ratho on the 12 would show Outer Circle on the side screen.
Presumably it was changed eventually, but it was definitely still the case in 2012 and I think into 2013 as well.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

200 numbered routes were originally single deck, 800 routes were mainly New Town Town routes in Harlow and Stevenage, although the 803 was express peak hours only, there was an 854 in the southern area if I recall correctly in or near Crawley

Glyn

Was that the Crawley to Chichester once a week run?

 

[MotCO]

200 numbered routes were originally single deck, 800 routes were mainly New Town Town routes in Harlow and Stevenage, although the 803 was express peak hours only, there was an 854 in the southern area if I recall correctly in or near Crawley

Glyn

There was an 853 in Orpington (Orpington to Croydon), operated by Orpington & District, then Tillingbourne, and is the forerunner of today's 353. There were other derivatives , but don't know if it included an 854. Whether there would be a Crawley and a Croydon 854 is another matter.

This website lists a few 800 series London country routes https://londonbusesbyadam.zenfolio.com/p561522462:

800 Stevenage
805 Harlow
811 Harlow
842 Welwyn Garden City
845 Welwyn Garden City
847 Stevenage

 

[Old Walter]

EDIT: I misremembered the 17 continuing in its original form by 2000, it did not and became a two-hourly service (see: https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=258a8582-338e-48f2-b549-f3fbede589ff). The 46 took up the fourth journey from Aldershot to Farnham each hour.

Having been used to Hindhead depot (which had gone by this time) I do remember thinking it was quite a novelty for ex-Hindhead routes to interwork with north-of-Aldershot routes.

In fact it went further than that: after seeing a map from 1996 on Timetable World I'm reminded that for a short while, the 17 and 19 worked on to Camberley, and the 20 ran through to Yateley - the 17/19 and the two 20s forming the quarter-hourly service on that corridor. This was the same era as the original joint-worked 38. I believe the Camberley corridor had become the 1 by September 1997, when the 17, 19 and 20 presumably reverted to terminating at Aldershot.

Indeed, the 17/17A was withdrawn sometime in 1998 with the Shortheath section covered by extending the 14 from Farnham becoming 14 and 14B (the 14A was used for a single outbound journey via Ash Road in the morning - an odd feature in itself!). However, at some point the 17 came back but without the double Farnham. In 1997 the route ran:

17 Aldershot - Shortheath
17A Shortheath - Farnham
17A Farnham - Shortheath
17 Shortheath - Aldershot

So an hourly service between Farnham and Aldershot but half hourly between Farnham and Shortheath, albeit via some different roads hence the A suffix.

I think the changes to the 14 happened at a similar/same time to the 46 being launched, it would make sense as the 46 filled the gap where the 17 went on the corridor - the original version of the 46 running from Aldershot as you say.

Thanks for pointing out the 1996 map - I’ve been over there and found something I’ve wanted confirmation of for a long time - the 30/30A Basingstoke - Guildford! Another addition to the 17/19/20 corridor between Farnborough and Aldershot. I was told by a Basingstoke driver a long time ago that a duty existed at this time which only consisted of four trips: 76 Basingstoke - Salisbury and back, and 30 Basingstoke - Guildford and back. The maps are excellent and I’ll be having more of a look into these, I appreciate you mentioning them!

Completely agree with the lack of service in the Headley Down area after the 18 was cut to Whitehill. The service in the area wasn’t bad at all, regular during the daytime and going into the evening as well. It was quite a big change when the 18 was altered.

Just remembered the mention of Nationals on the 38, I wouldn’t have minded seeing that, the mainstay that I saw was Alexander PS Volvo B10Ms (from both Aldershot and Farlington - though I saw Aldershot put out the odd Dash bodied Dart!). There were still a fair few Nationals around in the late 1990s but I tended to see those on 18/19/71 more than anything.

Righto…..time to get back to the map : )

 

[Omnidekkalover]

Nottingham City Transport has a last departure at 00:02 or 00:05 on most of their core routes still if you want an unusual practice still used.

 

[Statto]

This one is a tricky one, as you have joint services now, but nowadays joint services are in agreement with the local authority under, quality bus partnership scheme, & the LA provides the infrastructure, the operators the timetable & buses, at at one time joint services were everywhere & mostly on interurban routes, but you could have a situation were an operator(s) had a share in the route but didn't supply the vehicles & crew, here's a timetable for the old 39 Manchester - Liverpool from 1972, were 4 operators had a share in the route although Lancashire United supplied the vehicles & crew

Liverpool NS 24 001072 39.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In 1931, United Automobile bought the Scarborough Corporation Trams and replaced them with buses. It was like a proper franchise (not current parlance) and United paid Scarborough Council for the privilege but with a proviso.

For the next 45 years, they had two fleets allocated to Scarborough depot that were identical vehicles in United livery.The 1931 agreement dictated a “town” bus could only be used on a former SCT route, and the council paid for an inspector to ensure that there was no transgression in swapping buses between fleets!

I understand that a similar practice existed in Bristol but involved total vehicle mileage so you’d end up with older vehicles being cascaded out of the city to “get their miles up” before withdrawal.

 

[izvor]

200 numbered routes were originally single deck, 800 routes were mainly New Town Town routes in Harlow and Stevenage, although the 803 was express peak hours only, there was an 854 in the southern area if I recall correctly in or near Crawley

85x route numbers were allocated to the Southern area of LT though in practice I think only 851-854 were used:

851 Crawley - Smallfield Hospital visitors service
852 Crawley - Horsham rural service (originally through to Ewhurst)
853/A/B Crawley Industrial Area routes
854/A Orpington - Ramsden Estate local, later renumbered 493

I don't recall any other numbers used in this series. All had gone or been renumbered by the end of LT Country Buses in 1969. Other operators (e.g. North Downs Rural Transport) have used them since.

 

[nw1]

Indeed, the 17/17A was withdrawn sometime in 1998 with the Shortheath section covered by extending the 14 from Farnham becoming 14 and 14B (the 14A was used for a single outbound journey via Ash Road in the morning - an odd feature in itself!). However, at some point the 17 came back but without the double Farnham. In 1997 the route ran:

17 Aldershot - Shortheath
17A Shortheath - Farnham
17A Farnham - Shortheath
17 Shortheath - Aldershot

So an hourly service between Farnham and Aldershot but half hourly between Farnham and Shortheath, albeit via some different roads hence the A suffix.

Interesting, I don't remember that. I'm guessing that the 16 was withdrawn around then and without the 16, the 17 would have a long layover in Shortheath so it was filled with a trip into Farnham and back.

I think the changes to the 14 happened at a similar/same time to the 46 being launched, it would make sense as the 46 filled the gap where the 17 went on the corridor - the original version of the 46 running from Aldershot as you say.

Thanks for pointing out the 1996 map - I’ve been over there and found something I’ve wanted confirmation of for a long time - the 30/30A Basingstoke - Guildford! Another addition to the 17/19/20 corridor between Farnborough and Aldershot. I was told by a Basingstoke driver a long time ago that a duty existed at this time which only consisted of four trips: 76 Basingstoke - Salisbury and back, and 30 Basingstoke - Guildford and back. The maps are excellent and I’ll be having more of a look into these, I appreciate you mentioning them!

Now you mention the 30/30A, it very vaguely rings a bell, though this was a period I wasn't in the area much.

What is interesting is just how many enhancements and novel services there were in the mid to late 90s. While the post-deregulation era is often seen as an era of decline, it appears that for about a decade, from around 1993-2003, there were actual improvements and a lot of experimentation with new services. Furthermore, the funded, rural services had not been cut yet. You could say it was something of a golden age for bus travel: a contrast to the situation now in which there is often little willing to experiment with new services (though I do have a notable exception near me - I actually live quite close to a half-hourly service which didn't exist this time last year!)

I wonder what the reasons were for this (welcome) reversal of fortunes of the bus network in the 1993-2003 (ish) period?

Completely agree with the lack of service in the Headley Down area after the 18 was cut to Whitehill. The service in the area wasn’t bad at all, regular during the daytime and going into the evening as well. It was quite a big change when the 18 was altered.

Just remembered the mention of Nationals on the 38, I wouldn’t have minded seeing that, the mainstay that I saw was Alexander PS Volvo B10Ms (from both Aldershot and Farlington - though I saw Aldershot put out the odd Dash bodied Dart!). There were still a fair few Nationals around in the late 1990s but I tended to see those on 18/19/71 more than anything.

Last time I noticed Nationals in any great number was in 1996, and that was with Hants and Surrey, though they could well have continued longer. They'd gone by 2000 aside from the odd school working.
My last journey on that other stalwart of the era, the VR, was a little bit later I believe, in 2000 (Solent Blue Line).

 

[Springs Branch]

Another quirky practice I remember is crew/driver swaps in the middle of nowhere. Two buses passing on a wide, open road, pull up short of each other and drivers leap out and swap buses. Not an urban practice hopefully! I remember it in eastern England, maybe United Counties or Eastern Counties, or Lincolnshire Road Car, in NBC days. Anywhere else?

I certainly remember Crossville doing this in mid Wales in the early 70s. On one occasion, on the last journey of the day, the two buses swapped passengers and turned around.

Not in the middle of nowhere and definitely within an urban area - for many years Lancashire United Transport's Service 1 between St Helens and Atherton (via a circuitous, mostly urban route) was jointly operated by LUT (the majority) and St Helens Corporation buses (2 or 3 vehicles).

To avoid dead running and to get each operator's vehicles in the 'right order' for garage runs at the end of the day, on Mon-Sat mornings the first couple of journeys from both Atherton and St Helens directions were timed to meet each other at Haydock (at 05-something), exchange passengers, then turn around and return whence they came. I'm guessing it was easier to manage this passenger exchange with well-trained regulars at stupid-o'-clock in the morning than with the last buses in the evening, which might be well-loaded with drinkers, cinema crowds and the like.

Now this is a bit niche --[snip]-- operated by Dennis Loline III vehicles, which were half-cabs with a front entrance and a sliding door operated by the driver. There was a small window between the driving cab and the platform where passengers stood waiting to alight (at the front of the downstairs saloon). --[snip]-- Conductors would use a coin from their change bag to tap on the small window between the platform and the driving cab, one for stop and two for go; the bell was never used.

This practice was repeated in north-west England - again in Lancashire United land - on LUT's front-entrance Guy Arab Vs.

The conductor would tap on the same small window between front platform and cab to signal the driver to stop. Two taps for go were occasionally given, but in general the driver 'self-dispatched'. Likewise, use of the bell by passengers was unofficially verboten on any front entrance buses.

I once got roundly abused by the driver of a LUT Daimler Fleetline, on the day I was a bit late getting up from my upper-deck seat approaching my stop and 'doing him a favour' by ringing the bell just as I was about to stumble down the stairs. The conductress was only slightly more conciliatory - she reminded me that if he needed a bell, she was the one to give it to him.

In my younger years, when LUT still had some back-loading Guy Arabs on the road, I had been a bit surprised by all the ding and ding-dinging which occurred on one of these types. Obviously more necessary to use bell signals with a rear platform.

On any front entrance bus, the drill when wanting off was to make your way to the front platform a reasonable but not excessive time before your stop. If the conductor was there, they'd tap the communicating window. If s/he was away collecting fares (or maybe even couldn't be bothered), it was a point of workmanlike pride that the driver would always notice you and stop.

For elderly passengers who might find it hard to walk to the front platform of a moving bus, they'd call out "next stop please" to the conductor and the cab window would be tapped. You certainly didn't ring the bell yourself!

The little window could be used for communication in both directions. A firm thud from the driver's left elbow on there was code to the conductor "inspector boarding at next stop".

 

[SCH117X]

Nottingham City Transport has a last departure at 00:02 or 00:05 on most of their core routes still if you want an unusual practice still used.

At least its improvement on 40 years ago when 23:05 was the last departures guaranteed to just miss provding a connection with an arriving train from London on the services passing the railway station. They never seemed at the time to realise running 5 minutes later would have a significant increase in passengers.

 

[nw1]

At least its improvement on 40 years ago when 23:05 was the last departures guaranteed to just miss provding a connection with an arriving train from London on the services passing the railway station. They never seemed at the time to realise running 5 minutes later would have a significant increase in passengers.

I'm surprised that something like 23:30 wasn't seen as the best time. Ideal for pub chuck-out time.

 

[Man of Kent]

I'm surprised that something like 23:30 wasn't seen as the best time. Ideal for pub chuck-out time.

40 years ago pub closing times were more likely to be around 2230. I used to leave the bus station on the last town service (2235) slightly early, as the bus got hammered at the next stop, nearer to the pubs.

It was the Licencing Act of 1988 that permitted all day and slightly later opening. Wikipedia suggests that even more flexible hours were brought in by the similar 2003 act.

 

[nw1]

40 years ago pub closing times were more likely to be around 2230. I used to leave the bus station on the last town service (2235) slightly early, as the bus got hammered at the next stop, nearer to the pubs.

It was the Licencing Act of 1988 that permitted all day and slightly later opening. Wikipedia suggests that even more flexible hours were brought in by the similar 2003 act.

Ah interesting, I thought 2300 closing time, 2320-ish chuck-out time, half an hour earlier on Sundays, was long-standing, going back to the 60s or early 70s. But I note that date: 1988. In 1988 I wasn't quite old enough to visit the pub, so would have not experienced the earlier regime.

I do remember it was normal for pubs to close during the afternoon in the 1990s, though - I think 1430 was a frequent closing time, reopening at 1700 or 1800. But in the evening, it was always 2300 Mon-Sat in my day, 2230 Sundays.

 

[Whisky Papa]

There was an odd urban 'kiss and turn' arrangement at Hebden Bridge into the 1990s, when the first 590 bus from Todmorden at 0510 met one that had come from Halifax, both then returning to their origins. If I recall rightly, the Todmorden bus then turned back again upon arrival there, working the 0540 to Halifax - logically it might have continued as a 590 to Rochdale at 0540, but the need to divert via Stansfield Estate in Littleborough meant that journey actually departed at 0535, with a bus fresh from garage.

Another suburban one was late evening at Urmston Queens Road, where two late journeys on the 262 service between Eccles and Levenshulme turned short there to balance the timetable between Weaste and Birchfields Road garages.. Unfortunately, the connection only seemed to be planned to go north to Eccles - if you were on the 2300 from Eccles, there was no official onwards eastbound connection. By the early 1980s the eastbound bus left only a minute before the arrival from Eccles - I hope common-sense prevailed! The situation was sorted out when the service was converted to one-person operation and the correct garages scheduled to work the appropriate through journeys.

 

[Taunton]

Ah interesting, I thought 2300 closing time, 2320-ish chuck-out time, half an hour earlier on Sundays, was long-standing, going back to the 60s or early 70s. But I note that date: 1988. In 1988 I wasn't quite old enough to visit the pub, so would have not experienced the earlier regime.

I do remember it was normal for pubs to close during the afternoon in the 1990s, though - I think 1430 was a frequent closing time, reopening at 1700 or 1800. But in the evening, it was always 2300 Mon-Sat in my day, 2230 Sundays.

A surprising 1970s feature of Glasgow buses was a significant increase in frequency after 2200 on Saturday nights - Scottish pubs finished then - on services out to the substantial new council house estates, where there were no pubs. It must have been a rostering challenge to increase services at such times. SCottish pubs were not even opened on Sundays then, so the rush was on Saturdays.

This timetable clip shows Glasgow suburban route 24, from old-city Maryhill (lots of pubs) out to the new Cadder housing "scheme", every 10 minutes on Saturday afternoons and evenings, when it then increases to every 7 minutes from 9.40pm for the last couple of hours, which required extra vehicles to come out late evening, known as "Pub specials". Other routes into the new corporation housing developments were the same. Even Cumbernauld New Town, almost wholly local authority designed, expected to be fully self-sufficient, had fallen foul of the Blue Rinse Brigade in authority, without adequate pub provision, leading to considerable late Saturday duplication at these times out from Glasgow to the town.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

A surprising 1970s feature of Glasgow buses was a significant increase in frequency after 2200 on Saturday nights - Scottish pubs finished then - on services out to the substantial new council house estates, where there were no pubs. It must have been a rostering challenge to increase services at such times. SCottish pubs were not even opened on Sundays then, so the rush was on Saturdays.

This timetable clip shows Glasgow suburban route 24, from old-city Maryhill (lots of pubs) out to the new Cadder housing "scheme", every 10 minutes on Saturday afternoons and evenings, when it then increases to every 7 minutes from 9.40pm for the last couple of hours, which required extra vehicles to come out late evening, known as "Pub specials". Other routes into the new corporation housing developments were the same. Even Cumbernauld New Town, almost wholly local authority designed, expected to be fully self-sufficient, had fallen foul of the Blue Rinse Brigade in authority, without adequate pub provision, leading to considerable late Saturday duplication at these times out from Glasgow to the town.

Garbraid AVe is Tesco Mary hill so only 2 pubs there the politician (now closed ) and the viking (cracking pub) but both quite small . Now if it started on Garscube RD or ST George's cross that would have added 6 pubs to the route , was there another large employer in the area that accounted for the demand

 

[Ballyheigue]

Talking of quaint practices from the past, in the recent past (something like the late 90s) West Yorkshire Metro funded a series of rural routes, some of which acted as local parcel delivery vans! For something like 50p, you could hand a parcel to the driver of a rural route (such as the 900 from Hebden Bridge to Huddersfield via Ripponden, Barkisland, and Pole Moor) and he would deliver it to an address on route, or up to half a mile off route!

 

[ian1944]

On simultaneous late-evening departures, Preston Corporation (I think they were still called that) had one from their side of the enormous 80-stand bus station. In the days when the nearby Guild Hall hosted one of the big snooker tournaments (the UK?), on one occasion presenter David Vine introduced the parade as it was televised through the window.

 

[Statto]

On fine sunny days in spring/summer when drivers used to drive buses in service with the doors open, H&S would have a fit if they saw that practice nowadays.

Also drivers allowing passengers to board buses with the bus not at the stop particularly at terminuses & bus stations, this example at Birkenhead Woodside with the bus parked up at the layover bay in the middle of the road, but driver allowing passengers to board another example were H&S would have a fit nowadays.

MPTE 155 LCM155G Woodside 12 November 1976

Woodside, Birkenhead Leyland Atlantean/NCME

www.flickr.com