Quieter Coach Conundrum

[Krokodil]

They've grown up in surroundings where seemingly everything they choose to do is criticised and picked apart by (some) adults. How they speak, if they speak, the subject of what they speak about. Their intelligence, and attention span. Their music taste. How they dress. What they eat and drink. Being told that the videos they watch online are "utter bilge", their music choice is "awful", their conversation resembles "a parody sketch show" and being likened to "poorly behaved dogs from sink estates". Is it any wonder that some of them just behave however they wish, when they expect that they'll be criticised whatever they do or however they behave.

Is that really anything new? Surely there's always been friction between old and young

 

[Robin Edwards]

Yep, re-read it four times. Still can't interpret it as anything other than a disparaging criticism of an entire generation.

Re: the bit in bold
They've grown up in surroundings where seemingly everything they choose to do is criticised and picked apart by (some) adults. How they speak, if they speak, the subject of what they speak about. Their intelligence, and attention span. Their music taste. How they dress. What they eat and drink. Being told that the videos they watch online are "utter bilge", their music choice is "awful", their conversation resembles "a parody sketch show" and being likened to "poorly behaved dogs from sink estates". Is it any wonder that some of them just behave however they wish, when they expect that they'll be criticised whatever they do or however they behave.

I grew up in a time where being young meant doing as I was told and respecting adults. Physical punishment for non compliance was normality. That doesn't excuse my generation for being rude and/or disrespectful to others just because of how older people were in my youth. Let's be mindful that we shouldn't need to defend rudeness and disrespect. I don't claim victimhood (and I know that's not what you're claiming either) just because growing up meant following a few basic rules that I might not have liked.

Personally, I don't blame any age demographic in this discussion of disrespect on public transport.

 

[Towers]

[Response deleted as I fear we’re getting a tad political!]

 

[Hadders]

It’s not just young people who make too much noise in the quiet coach.

I’ve asked middle aged businessmen making phone calls to stop or be quiet (they all moved!)

I told a noisy hen party they were in the quiet coach. They moved.

 

[saismee]

It’s not just young people who make too much noise in the quiet coach.

I’ve asked middle aged businessmen making phone calls to stop or be quiet (they all moved!)

I told a noisy hen party they were in the quiet coach. They moved.

It's absolutely not just young people but they seem to be the most common cause. Hen parties are absolutely the noisiest ones in my experience, and they don't tend to respect others' boundaries.

 

[Towers]

It's absolutely not just young people but they seem to be the most common cause. Hen parties are absolutely the noisiest ones in my experience, and they don't tend to respect others' boundaries.

I think just about group of like minded people if you send them on a night out and get them pished will be pretty rowdy - diesel fans anyone?! - but at least they have some vague level of ‘excuse’ that they’re a bit, shall we say, excited! It likely isn’t a daily way of life for them (mostly…) !!

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think just about group of like minded people if you send them on a night out and get them pished will be pretty rowdy - diesel fans anyone?! - but at least they have some vague level of ‘excuse’ that they’re a bit, shall we say, excited! It likely isn’t a daily way of life for them (mostly…) !!

So if a group of adults, who really should know better, act in a rowdy or disruptive manner, it's okay to find excuses for them because they might be drunk and/or excited about something? But young people, who are still figuring out how the world works, should be vilified?

Hen party. Group of blokes in their 30s. Group comprising of 2 or 3 middle aged couples. 2 parents with small children. Group of 14/15 year olds. All equally capable of behaving inappropriately, noisily and disruptively. Yet I can pretty much guarantee which one of those groups would be the most likely to receive a telling off or passive aggressive comments/actions from other members of the public in the same carriage...

 

[Towers]

So if a group of adults, who really should know better, act in a rowdy or disruptive manner, it's okay to find excuses for them because they might be drunk and/or excited about something? But young people, who are still figuring out how the world works, should be vilified?

Hen party. Group of blokes in their 30s. Group comprising of 2 or 3 middle aged couples. 2 parents with small children. Group of 14/15 year olds. All equally capable of behaving inappropriately, noisily and disruptively. Yet I can pretty much guarantee which one of those groups would be the most likely to receive a telling off or passive aggressive comments/actions from other members of the public in the same carriage...

As I said above, I think perhaps we’re veering rather a way off topic with all of this now.

But, to respond briefly, some behaviours are due to the festivities of the moment, while others are simply the norm for some people. This applies across all demographics, I’m sure; in essence some people don’t require the excuse of alcohol to be inconsiderate or antisocial. That is my last comment on this particular facet of the discussion!

 

[Sakuradori]

On that one coach in that one train, maybe. You're going to need a lot of actors to cover every single one.

Would be one heck of a PSA advert though.

 

[styles]

I grew up in a time where being young meant doing as I was told and respecting adults. Physical punishment for non compliance was normality. That doesn't excuse my generation for being rude and/or disrespectful to others just because of how older people were in my youth. Let's be mindful that we shouldn't need to defend rudeness and disrespect. I don't claim victimhood (and I know that's not what you're claiming either) just because growing up meant following a few basic rules that I might not have liked.

Personally, I don't blame any age demographic in this discussion of disrespect on public transport.

I see plenty of misbehaving 'boomers' as much as 'Gen Z'ers. It's exhibited in different ways quite often but it's not like misbehaving or being antisocial is reserved to a particular age group.

As for times gone by and youth having respect etc, my dad was nicking milk bottles and razzing motocross bikes in the local park 50 years ago (or so I'm told!) At some point he booked his ideas up, became a train driver, and has been a well behaved one for 47 years so far. 'Kids will be kids' isn't a new phrase and crime and antisocial behaviour amongst teenagers and adolescents who are pushing the boundaries of authority and society more generally is nothing new.

It's just that 50 years ago we didn't have palm-sized devices with practically limitless music and video access. In fact you were lucky if you could afford a boombox back then, and carrying it was a bit of effort! To take one onto a train and play it in a quiet coach would be intentionally winding people up and a fair bit of bother for little gain.

 

[Forty29]

I was on a SWT service from Axminster to Basingstoke in the quiet coach . A table of four were playing some sort of card game shouting and laughing out loud but not one person complained, not even the guard who just walked past. Everyone seemed to have ear plugs in listening to something so was probably drowning it out. Or just couldn't be bothered.

 

[styles]

I was on a SWT service from Axminster to Basingstoke in the quiet coach . A table of four were playing some sort of card game shouting and laughing out loud but not one person complained, not even the guard who just walked past. Everyone seemed to have ear plugs in listening to something so was probably drowning it out. Or just couldn't be bothered.

Well SWR openly say they won't enforce it so:

Meet the Manager | South Western Railway

We regularly hold Meet the Manager sessions throughout the year across the South Western Railway network. The sessions cover a range of questions and topics about travelling with South Western Railway.

www.southwesternrailway.com

we’d like our customers to be aware of the following:

Not all trains have a Quiet Coach. The availability of Quiet Coaches depends on the type of train operating the service.

During busy periods, particularly at peak times, maintaining a consistently quiet environment in these coaches may not always be possible due to higher passenger volumes.

Our on-board staff are not able to enforce Quiet Coach rules. While we encourage passengers to respect the purpose of these spaces, staff cannot compel customers to remain silent or relocate.

If that's the company line then I can't really be mad at a guard for not bothering. If someone complains yeah I'd expect the guard to have a word, but like the page says, if it's a busy service or half the carriage is making noise then it's somewhat fair game by company policy.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is the sort of attitude towards younger people that breeds their "lack of respect" towards others. Overall, the teenagers behaving badly only represent a minority of their age group. Yet (some) people paint the entire generation in a negative light, criticising almost every aspect of their behaviour, appearance, intelligence etc. and then wonder why they don't get respect in return.

A positive thing that I see amongst youngsters far more than in older generations, is friends/peers calling out and correcting poor attitude/behaviour amongst their party.

Couldn't agree more. The lack of manners and respect issue is across all age bands especially when it comes to making undue noise.

The current crop of teenagers is generally better behaved than my cohort (20-25 years ago!). I used to fare dodge on 321s by hiding behind the bins that were located between seat backs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==

I disagree; I didn’t state that this was typical of an entire generation,

You literally did! We can read what you wrote:

I think we have a generation who have been ‘raised’ (used loosely) by ‘parents’ (again…) who themselves are totally hapless, been force fed content from electronic devices all their lives, which quickly develops into social media addiction with all the enormous negativity that brings. Lockdown didn’t help, either. They are the human equivalent of poorly behaved dogs from sink estates who’ve been appalling badly looked after by utterly clueless owners - they aren’t “socialised”, so to speak.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Well SWR openly say they won't enforce it so:

Meet the Manager | South Western Railway

We regularly hold Meet the Manager sessions throughout the year across the South Western Railway network. The sessions cover a range of questions and topics about travelling with South Western Railway.

www.southwesternrailway.com

If that's the company line then I can't really be mad at a guard for not bothering. If someone complains yeah I'd expect the guard to have a word, but like the page says, if it's a busy service or half the carriage is making noise then it's somewhat fair game by company policy.

Must admit I find quiet carriages quite stressful because I'm never sure what to do when another passenger is being a bit louder than necessary. Or a senior colleague that I'm travelling alongside on a business trip. I'm aware that others might be irritated and wonder if I should intervene politely to avoid another person getting irate and confrontational or just let it go in the hope that other passengers are happy to accept it anyway. As you point out, short of gagging every customer on boarding, it's not really an enforceable thing and defining thresholds can be difficult.

Even when travelling in silence alone I think I'd prefer to use a non-quiet coach and tolerate any boisterous activity nearby rather than risk a punch-up developing.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

‘Quieter’ is the wrong term. It should be ’silent’ so everyone knows what to expect

How would the guard communicate that she/he wants to check your tickets in a 'silent' coach? And if there's something wrong with your ticket, how would she/he explain to you what the problem is without talking?

 

[Towers]

How would the guard communicate that she/he wants to check your tickets in a 'silent' coach? And if there's something wrong with your ticket, how would she/he explain to you what the problem is without talking?

Perhaps the railway could employ some mime artists to accompany them through the carriage in question?

Realistically - and I’ll duck shortly - maybe the answer is that such societal courtesy as is required to make a quiet coach effective just doesn’t exist quite as universally today and the idea should be quietly resigned to history? Perhaps the emphasis ought to be on those who desire the ‘quiet’ to travel with Airpods or similar so as to create their own quiet space?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==

Couldn't agree more. The lack of manners and respect issue is across all age bands especially when it comes to making undue noise.

The current crop of teenagers is generally better behaved than my cohort (20-25 years ago!). I used to fare dodge on 321s by hiding behind the bins that were located between seat backs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==


You literally did! We can read what you wrote:

That’s a fair cop; clearly I should have described the issue as affecting a subset of society, rather than a ‘generation’ as a whole. The people I describe do very much exist, however, and make frequent appearances on the rail network. Obviously some areas suffer more antisocial behaviour issues than others, and some rail users will be far more aware of it than others. It’s very much a societal issue, the solution to which appears very challenging.

Every generation has its issues of course, and I’m sure that each thinks the current younger generation more full of difficult issues than the last - however this is the first generation who’ve had the sinister influences of social media thrown into the mix, and that I feel is a major part of the puzzle.

Anyhow, we’re once again wildly off topic!

 

[Sakuradori]

Perhaps the emphasis ought to be on those who desire the ‘quiet’ to travel with Airpods or similar so as to create their own quiet space?!

I quietly agree. I think the problem could/should be lessened with (more) PSAs/reminders/signage, but I don't think you're ever gonna really get rid of the problem, so if it really bothers you that much, then you should probably bring your own measures against it. That being said, the only time I've ever told someone to be quiet was when a woman was arguing on the phone so loudly that my own earbuds were being drowned out, ruining my valuable snoozing time on the 04:34.

 

[styles]

Must admit I find quiet carriages quite stressful because I'm never sure what to do when another passenger is being a bit louder than necessary. Or a senior colleague that I'm travelling alongside on a business trip. I'm aware that others might be irritated and wonder if I should intervene politely to avoid another person getting irate and confrontational or just let it go in the hope that other passengers are happy to accept it anyway. As you point out, short of gagging every customer on boarding, it's not really an enforceable thing and defining thresholds can be difficult.

Indeed. I only book them when I'm travelling alone actually, and don't have any work calls planned.

However I go into the coach fully expecting the quiet element not to be honoured by all passengers. I consider it more of a polite request to try and be quiet than anything else. But then I also have good noise cancelling earphones.

Even when travelling in silence alone I think I'd prefer to use a non-quiet coach and tolerate any boisterous activity nearby rather than risk a punch-up developing.

Well I'd certainly prefer a moderate noise carriage to one with a fight that's for sure!

I do think there's an accessibility point lost in a lot of this though. At a time when shops and supermarkets are starting to offer quiet hours for disabled people, the railway is effectively abandoning the notion of a quiet carriage. It's not the fault of individual guards etc of course, just an industry issue. The main steps I've seen taken in a positive direction on this have been the introduction of some quiet zones at stations like Crewe.

 

[duffield]

Of course, what we really need is for everyone to have their own "Cone of Silence"


(Only smart old people will get this).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on a SWT service from Axminster to Basingstoke in the quiet coach . A table of four were playing some sort of card game shouting and laughing out loud but not one person complained, not even the guard who just walked past. Everyone seemed to have ear plugs in listening to something so was probably drowning it out. Or just couldn't be bothered.

Some trains are a bit pub like. As long as it's not the quiet coach and it's not making people feel unsafe (e.g. drunk men behaving inappropriately towards women) I can't see any issue with normal human "hubbub".

 

[Bristol LHS]

How would the guard communicate that she/he wants to check your tickets in a 'silent' coach? And if there's something wrong with your ticket, how would she/he explain to you what the problem is without talking?

The Belgians seem to manage : https://www.belganewsagency.eu/sncb-tests-silent-compartments-on-trains

and the Swiss say:

https://www.sbb.ch/en/travel-information/services-on-train/comfort-classes/first-class.html

The following activities are prohibited in the quiet zones:​

• having conversations discussions (even if done quietly).
• listening to music, audiobooks, podcasts or the radio (even with headphones).
• playing audio or video programs on a notebook are discouraged.
• telephone calls.

 

[Archvile]

Someone who isn't me has used a portable signal jammer in situations like this. For a few seconds at a time, until the offender gives up.
They wouldn't recommend it. The penalties, if caught, are severe.

 

[godfreycomplex]

and the Swiss say:

But you’re quite permitted to sit in the same carriage with a high velocity rifle that the state gives you for free….

I think the serious answer is that Switzerland has a very different culture to that of most other countries and it’s usually best just to accept that and move on, rather than drive yourself mad with comparisons

 

[dk1]

I really don’t understand why quiet coaches have lasted this long. In my experience they do little but cause situations. Many people wrongly believe they should be like a library when in fact it’s just about mobile phone conversations and devices being on silent. All they do is create potential conflict and cause unnecessary grief for traincrew.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I really don’t understand why quiet coaches have lasted this long. In my experience they do little but cause situations. Many people wrongly believe they should be like a library when in fact it’s just about mobile phone conversations and devices being on silent. All they do is create potential conflict and cause unnecessary grief for traincrew.

Because plenty of people like the idea of travelling in quiet, and if they were properly enforced/respected, they would make journeys a lot more pleasant for a lot of people?

Although I don't think absolute silence is realistic (people do after all need to communicate), I'd personally be very happy if the 'quiet' rule went further, and the rule was, no noise except essential conversations spoken quietly. You'd probably want to do something about the unnecessary repeated automated announcements too though.

 

[dk1]

Because plenty of people like the idea of travelling in quiet, and if they were properly enforced/respected, they would make journeys a lot more pleasant for a lot of people?

I agree but with the public being as they are it’s never going to happen in this country. If maybe a supplement had to be paid then that would be a better idea. Unfortunately most operators don’t have the recourses to look after this niche carriage.

 

[Robin Edwards]

In fact you were lucky if you could afford a boombox back then, and carrying it was a bit of effort! To take one onto a train and play it in a quiet coach would be intentionally winding people up and a fair bit of bother for little gain.

No boomboxes and couldn't have afforded the batteries had there been. No USB boombox-chargers on trains in the 70s

 

[Krokodil]

No boomboxes and couldn't have afforded the batteries had there been. No USB boombox-chargers on trains in the 70s

I bet that there was someone, somewhere who once took his gramophone.

 

[styles]

I bet that there was someone, somewhere who once took his gramophone.

Wonder how long it would take me to learn the bagpipes..

 

[AndrewP]

Of course, what we really need is for everyone to have their own "Cone of Silence"


(Only smart old people will get this).

Or those of us who saw reruns and the rather good Steve Carrell remake