Quieter Coach Conundrum

[styles]

I think the solution is compulsory reservations in quiet coaches, and a sound pressure lever meter directed towards each seat. If the sound level gets too high, a notice of intended prosecution for a bylaws offence is automatically posted out.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Out of interest, are people ever randomly assigned the quieter coach or do they need to specifically request it?

 

[vjm1975]

I’ve been randomly assigned quiet coach on a few occasions.

Travelling through China recently, all trains have stickers on windows advising people not to play loud music etc but it’s widely ignored. In fact it is a surprise if there is someone not doing it whether it’s train, bus, restaurant, even Pirates of The Caribbean at Disney Shanghai never escaped it

I noticed in Japan too that whilst commuter trains are pretty civilised, outside of this is less so, but it is only the occasional user and not quite endemic. Found busses to be quite rowdy in some areas in Japan too. Not quite the serenity that’s often depicted on T’Internet.

The other bad journeys I tend to come across for loud music/videos/conversations would be RB 26/27 RE7 services theoufh Freiburg in Germany. Even worse when they are short formed and everyone is crammed in like sardines. I actually find Germany worse than UK for this. The Offenburg to Strasbourg train is equally bad for this in my experience.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Out of interest, are people ever randomly assigned the quieter coach or do they need to specifically request it?

I would imagine they are, if there is insufficient space elsewhere. And I think that is a big part of the problem - lack of capacity will force some people to travel in the quiet coach - although that doesn't excuse some of the behaviour, like playing music/videos out loud.

 

[Bristol LHS]

I commute to London from Yorkshire every week in the LNER ‘quieter’ coach and I’ve never heard an announcement asking people to respect that rule, or seen staff challenge noisy behaviour. That said, peak time pricing also means it’s been 18months since I failed to secure a pair of seats to myself (seriosuly, it’s that deserted)

Thoughts:

• ‘Quieter’ is the wrong term. It should be ’silent’ so everyone knows what to expect
• it was better on the 225s when the quiet coach was B, right at the far end of the train. You got fewer people passing through or ending up in it by accident. Coach H is in the middle and gets people passing through on the way to the buffet, people boarding without reservations (it always seems to have a good smattering of or@pange ‘May be reserved later’ in my experience.
• signage is discrete. It needs something on seat backs (which they do for priority seats now) and mcih clearer signage as you enter from vestibules, setting out what’s expected (silence!)

Staff need to enforce this. They set the tone. If they ignore it, others feel disempowered to challenge. I don’t think a woman on her own (for example) should have to challenge. Train staff already have to do revenue protection, difficult conversations are part of the job.

 

[Krokodil]

GenZ sadly seem to think it's acceptable provided it's not above conversational volume,

I do agree that Gen Z tend to be louder and more anti-social

There definitely seems to be a very specific issue with those currently in their late teens / early 20s

Let's not make this a generational issue. If I ask an 18 year old to put headphones in they usually turn the sound off without issue. Ask a 40-something and expect an argument. The "ghetto blaster" was also very much a thing before I was born. I find drunken women in their forties/fifties to be some of the most irritating passengers in all honesty.

it does clearly state not to make phone calls - me talking to my partner at a normal level is not prohibited, despite what that silly granny thought on a recent train.

Last oneI was on also said "and keep noise to a minimum". Music/played out loud is unacceptable in any carriage. The Quiet Coach should be treated like a library.

Chiltern's old suggestion wouldn't work nowadays, as if the GSM signal is blocked, the train would probably still be providing wi-fi to that coach.

You can control what sites are allowed on WiFi and therefore block Youtube/TikTok/Spotify etc.

Not to mention that deliberately interfering with mobile phone signals is illegal.

Nothing illegal about putting a metallic film on the windows. Some units have this anyway, to reduce solar gain.

To the OP, we don't have quiet coaches where I am, but byelaw seven applies all over. I do periodically include in my announcements about consideration to other passengers, not putting feet on seats, using headphones if one wishes to listen to music or watch videos, and not making calls on loudspeaker. I will politely ask people "can you take that off loudspeaker, please?" or "can you put headphones in please?". Occasionally it's met by "I haven't got any" to which I firmly respond "then turn the sound off". It works with most people. Some people refuse, or turn it back on when I leave the carriage, I do occasionally resort to saying "turn it off and leave it off or you'll have to leave the train".

 

[DynamicSpirit]

When I get new headphones/buds I test them to check for bleed (I ask my wife). Most people probably don't but then most people are selfish...

Exactly. It's not hard to check whether your earphones are likely to be annoying to anyone else nearby. Just hold them a few inches away from your ear while playing your music/whatever and see if you can hear it. If you can, then you need to turn the volume down/buy better headphones. You don't even need a wife to help check

 

[bramling]

Let's not make this a generational issue. If I ask an 18 year old to put headphones in they usually turn the sound off without issue. Ask a 40-something and expect an argument. The "ghetto blaster" was also very much a thing before I was born. I find drunken women in their forties/fifties to be some of the most irritating passengers in all honesty.

I wasn’t attempting to imply it’s a generational thing, round here most young people are pretty polite, and I agree there’s far more trouble with older people.

*However*, I find there’s an awareness issue which always seems to be the late teens / early 20s, it’s just as noticeable in my local gym as it is in transport settings, many seem to have zero idea how to behave in public spaces. I’m sure this stems from Covid lockdowns, which for this cohort would have specifically occurred during the maturing years of their school time.

The other group I find now likely to exhibit strange behaviours is the early grey hair years. Again, round here at least, probably highly likely to have spent a long time working from home, and in some cases now display some extremely insular tendencies and show absolutely zero sense of etiquette at all.

 

[Towers]

What I find odd about the whole situation is that these days everybody wants - and most have - all the trendy gadgets, which the latest generation of pricey wireless headphones are surely amongst. And yet it seems a vast number of people either don’t want them , or seemingly must leave them at home every time they go out! Every other gizmo they’ll happily flash about, but it’s as if they don’t even know that headphones exist at all. It’s bizarre!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wasn’t attempting to imply it’s a generational thing, round here most young people are pretty polite, and I agree there’s far more trouble with older people.

It was me that did that, and I did and do highlight it as a generational difference in the acceptability of electronic noise. The young person I was speaking to is extremely polite and articulate, but she has a different expectation on such things than those of us who grew up without such devices.

 

[DarloRich]

Music/played out loud is unacceptable in any carriage.

Agreed

The Quiet Coach should be treated like a library.

Quiet = yes. Library = No.

if i am with my partner and i happen to see a dear, say, out of the window I will say to her " oh look, a deer"! ( as an example).

I am not going to mime it or suggest we pop to the vestibule so I can say: Well, I saw a dear but that was 2 miles back so this is a bit of a waste of time but it was the alleged library coach so mentioning a deer would result in a tasering"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quiet = yes. Library = No.

The present rules aren't like that but to be honest I would rename it to the "silence zone" and have that rule. It's simpler to say NO noise is to be made than to allow some and not other, as the latter is open for debate between individuals unless you have a long list of what is allowed and what isn't.

Such a coach would be aimed primarily at those travelling alone, of course. Those wishing to talk to a companion would sit elsewhere. Those wishing to talk to random people on trains who don't have a similar interest, well, they're a menace anyway, at least south of the Watford Gap

(Note: such rules apply to ALL coaches on commuter services departing before 0715 or thereabouts )

 

[DarloRich]

Such a coach would be aimed primarily at those travelling alone, of course. Those wishing to talk to a companion would sit elsewhere. Those wishing to talk to random people on trains who don't have a similar interest, well, they're a menace anyway, at least south of the Watford Gap

(Note: such rules apply to ALL coaches on commuter services departing before 0715 or thereabouts )

I don't mind early day talking - sometimes you need it to not nod off and miss your stop - but those proto Gordon Gekko types who insist on talking on thier phone about work at 0600 should be shot.

You are not that important, your work is not that important and your boss is laughing all the way to the bank as you break yourself earning him money. You wont be rewarded for it. They wont make you a partner. Give it a rest.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I think blocking signal kind of defeats the purpose of 61016 and all of those announcements...

People also can easily download shows or music to play, which is ideal when on a train with poor signal.

Well said. It's about an individual's self awareness and their impact on those around them. A growing number of all ages and demographics seem to have lost or never held such awareness nor care either way.

 

[Towers]

Agreed

Quiet = yes. Library = No.

if i am with my partner and i happen to see a dear, say, out of the window I will say to her " oh look, a deer"! ( as an example).

I am not going to mime it or suggest we pop to the vestibule so I can say: Well, I saw a dear but that was 2 miles back so this is a bit of a waste of time but it was the alleged library coach so mentioning a deer would result in a tasering"

You’re not trying hard enough!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==

Well said. It's about an individual's self awareness and their impact on those around them. A growing number of all ages and demographics seem to have lost or never held such awareness nor care either way.

Exactly this. Coincidentally just as I submitted my previous post, whilst sat on a bus, a group of ‘yoofs’ who boarded a while ago have just commenced their mandatory noise sharing session. They must have been distracted and forgotten to do it when they first got on!

 

[bramling]

Well said. It's about an individual's self awareness and their impact on those around them. A growing number of all ages and demographics seem to have lost or never held such awareness nor care either way.

What gets me is how some of these individuals are the first to complain when something adversely affects *them*. I had some idiot blocking up the entrance to the small Waitrose on the concourse at King’s Cross recently, who then started moaning when he was brushed past out of necessity. I left him in absolutely no doubt in regards to his lack of self-awareness being highly objectionable.

 

[Towers]

What gets me is how some of these individuals are the first to complain when something adversely affects *them*. I had some idiot blocking up the entrance to the small Waitrose on the concourse at King’s Cross recently, who then started moaning when he was brushed past out of necessity. I left him in absolutely no doubt in regards to his lack of self-awareness being highly objectionable.

We are quite some way in now to a society populated by people who have precious little respect for anybody else (or, ultimately, for themselves), with very little enforcement of any sort of rules or standards and no requirement for personal accountability. It’s all gone a bit ‘wild west’, and there does genuinely appear to be a generation of late teens or so out there who are increasingly detached from the rest of society and live their lives as though they think it’s some sort of survival gameplay. There is no connection between some of these individuals and the people with whom they share their environment, and the constant preoccupation with a ‘device’ and desperately limited attention span that brings with it certainly doesn’t help. Fortunately they tend to wear a uniform of course, so at least in some instances you can do your best to avoid having to share oxygen with them. But, ultimately it’s bleak, and I have to say it’s difficult to see how it’ll improve.

 

[Robin Edwards]

We are quite some way in now to a society populated by people who have precious little respect for anybody else (or, ultimately, for themselves), with very little enforcement of any sort of rules or standards and no requirement for personal accountability. It’s all gone a bit ‘wild west’, and there does genuinely appear to be a generation of late teens or so out there who are increasingly detached from the rest of society and live their lives as though they think it’s some sort of survival gameplay. There is no connection between some of these individuals and the people with whom they share their environment, and the constant preoccupation with a ‘device’ and desperately limited attention span that brings with it certainly doesn’t help. Fortunately they tend to wear a uniform of course, so at least in some instances you can do your best to avoid having to share oxygen with them. But, ultimately it’s bleak, and I have to say it’s difficult to see how it’ll improve.

Two words : Entitlement (an epidemic caused by....)
(Lack of) Consequences (there aren't any!! )

 

[rower40]

Picture the scene: Train Manager comes through Quiet Coach carrying a bucket of used engine oil (other noxious liquids are available); in full view of all the occupants, the TM snatches a noise-producing device from a hapless customer, and drops it in the bucket.

Little do the other occupants know that the device-owning hapless customer is actually an actor, and completely "in" on the little scene.

Would this have the appropriate deterrent effect?

 

[sh24]

Picture the scene: Train Manager comes through Quiet Coach carrying a bucket of used engine oil (other noxious liquids are available); in full view of all the occupants, the TM snatches a noise-producing device from a hapless customer, and drops it in the bucket.

Little do the other occupants know that the device-owning hapless customer is actually an actor, and completely "in" on the little scene.

Would this have the appropriate deterrent effect?

I like this idea!

I also like the library coach idea. No talking, no noise and especially no randoms trying to make a conversation with you. : shudder :

 

[Krokodil]

Quiet = yes. Library = No.

if i am with my partner and i happen to see a dear, say, out of the window I will say to her " oh look, a deer"! ( as an example).

I am not going to mime it or suggest we pop to the vestibule so I can say: Well, I saw a dear but that was 2 miles back so this is a bit of a waste of time but it was the alleged library coach so mentioning a deer would result in a tasering"

People still manage to communicate in libraries. They just manage to do so while lowering their voices.

Picture the scene: Train Manager comes through Quiet Coach carrying a bucket of used engine oil (other noxious liquids are available); in full view of all the occupants, the TM snatches a noise-producing device from a hapless customer, and drops it in the bucket.

Little do the other occupants know that the device-owning hapless customer is actually an actor, and completely "in" on the little scene.

Would this have the appropriate deterrent effect?

On that one coach in that one train, maybe. You're going to need a lot of actors to cover every single one.

 

[Towers]

Two words : Entitlement (an epidemic caused by....)
(Lack of) Consequences (there aren't any!! )

Indeed. I don’t think it’s just that, though.

Today’s bus passengers that I referenced above were a pair of I’d guess 15/16ish lads. 30 minute or so journey, back seats upstairs (obviously). Once the phone came out it was the absolute bog standard flicking through clip after clip of utter bilge on TikTok/Youtube/whatever, the usual awful ‘rap’ racket filling the air. The lack of attention span is apparent when they can’t even get beyond the first couple of seconds of this sort of stuff, scrolling endlessly. When they did very occasionally converse the dialogue was like something from a parody sketch show. The sense of intelligence and a decent upbringing was very much not oozing from them, and it frequently plays out the same. I think we have a generation who have been ‘raised’ (used loosely) by ‘parents’ (again…) who themselves are totally hapless, been force fed content from electronic devices all their lives, which quickly develops into social media addiction with all the enormous negativity that brings. Lockdown didn’t help, either. They are the human equivalent of poorly behaved dogs from sink estates who’ve been appalling badly looked after by utterly clueless owners - they aren’t “socialised”, so to speak.

These people barely converse even with each other, it’s as though between any sort of defined task or activity they go into some sort of shutdown mode where all they can do is sit and feed their brain with more dirge from social media, the algorithms of course ensuring that it suits their taste for utter rubbish and keeping them duly hooked. It’s the mental stimuli equivalent of being fed plate after plate of bland, beige food full of nasties. And indeed that’s probably what most of these kids are living on.

The fact that this illustrates a large part of the future of our society makes me genuinely sad. Long post, sorry!

 

[Hadders]

I don't think a silent coach would work in reality.

What I can't see mentioned in this thread is some self policing. I've often had a quiet(!) word with people making a noise in the quiet coach and only once has it not achieved a positive result. More often than not people are simply just not aware. The one occasion when it didn't work was on a busy LNER train when there was an obnoxious group who got on at York and decided to sit in the quiet coach. I did get a round of applause from other passengers in the coach. Thankfully order was restored at Doncaster when they got off!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Indeed. I don’t think it’s just that, though.

Today’s bus passengers that I referenced above were a pair of I’d guess 15/16ish lads. 30 minute or so journey, back seats upstairs (obviously). Once the phone came out it was the absolute bog standard flicking through clip after clip of utter bilge on TikTok/Youtube/whatever, the usual awful ‘rap’ racket filling the air. The lack of attention span is apparent when they can’t even get beyond the first couple of seconds of this sort of stuff, scrolling endlessly. When they did very occasionally converse the dialogue was like something from a parody sketch show. The sense of intelligence and a decent upbringing was very much not oozing from them, and it frequently plays out the same. I think we have a generation who have been ‘raised’ (used loosely) by ‘parents’ (again…) who themselves are totally hapless, been force fed content from electronic devices all their lives, which quickly develops into social media addiction with all the enormous negativity that brings. Lockdown didn’t help, either. They are the human equivalent of poorly behaved dogs from sink estates who’ve been appalling badly looked after by utterly clueless owners - they aren’t “socialised”, so to speak.

These people barely converse even with each other, it’s as though between any sort of defined task or activity they go into some sort of shutdown mode where all they can do is sit and feed their brain with more dirge from social media, the algorithms of course ensuring that it suits their taste for utter rubbish and keeping them duly hooked. It’s the mental stimuli equivalent of being fed plate after plate of bland, beige food full of nasties. And indeed that’s probably what most of these kids are living on.

The fact that this illustrates a large part of the future of our society makes me genuinely sad. Long post, sorry!

I'm pretty sure the elder generation said similar things about my friends and I when we spent hours playing the likes of Pacman on our Atari 2600 consoles back in the 1980s!

Let's be honest, teenagers have always been desperate to fit in and like (or pretend to like) whatever's cool and fashionable at any given time, plus of course social media is specifically designed to be addictive to young folk, so I understand why they act like they do on public transport. As others have pointed out, it's the older groups like the drunken hen parties and the egotistical businessmen bellowing into their phones who are the worst offenders.

 

[saismee]

I also like the library coach idea. No talking, no noise and especially no randoms trying to make a conversation with you. : shudder :

I think this takes the awkwardness away a little bit when sitting next to/at a table with people. As long as they're not drunk or offensive. I've had my fair share of random chats with elderly people and they tend to be pleasant. One conversation included them being absolutely astonished by how good the FLIRTs are compared to 153s/156s. Always makes me pleased.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You're all doing it wrong.

1) Pick up your phone and put it to your ear.

2) Say, very loudly, "Mum, I can't talk sorry, I'm IN THE QUIET CARRIAGE, I'll call you later."

3) The loud passengers tend to go "Oh sugar, Kelly, did you hear that babes? We're in the Quiet Carriage."

4) Kelly gasps, stifles a high-pitched giggle, and shuts up.

No confrontation, no taking on the role of rail staff, no awkwardness. Works very often for me, as most passengers don't realise where they are, as signage is often poor. Doesn't stop those who blatantly don't care, of course.

 

[saismee]

Doesn't stop those who blatantly don't care, of course.

I bet the majority of people loudly talking into their phone on speaker would be the ones who don't hear you because they don't know that others exist.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Indeed. I don’t think it’s just that, though.

Today’s bus passengers that I referenced above were a pair of I’d guess 15/16ish lads. 30 minute or so journey, back seats upstairs (obviously). Once the phone came out it was the absolute bog standard flicking through clip after clip of utter bilge on TikTok/Youtube/whatever, the usual awful ‘rap’ racket filling the air. The lack of attention span is apparent when they can’t even get beyond the first couple of seconds of this sort of stuff, scrolling endlessly. When they did very occasionally converse the dialogue was like something from a parody sketch show. The sense of intelligence and a decent upbringing was very much not oozing from them, and it frequently plays out the same. I think we have a generation who have been ‘raised’ (used loosely) by ‘parents’ (again…) who themselves are totally hapless, been force fed content from electronic devices all their lives, which quickly develops into social media addiction with all the enormous negativity that brings. Lockdown didn’t help, either. They are the human equivalent of poorly behaved dogs from sink estates who’ve been appalling badly looked after by utterly clueless owners - they aren’t “socialised”, so to speak.

These people barely converse even with each other, it’s as though between any sort of defined task or activity they go into some sort of shutdown mode where all they can do is sit and feed their brain with more dirge from social media, the algorithms of course ensuring that it suits their taste for utter rubbish and keeping them duly hooked. It’s the mental stimuli equivalent of being fed plate after plate of bland, beige food full of nasties. And indeed that’s probably what most of these kids are living on.

The fact that this illustrates a large part of the future of our society makes me genuinely sad. Long post, sorry!

This is the sort of attitude towards younger people that breeds their "lack of respect" towards others. Overall, the teenagers behaving badly only represent a minority of their age group. Yet (some) people paint the entire generation in a negative light, criticising almost every aspect of their behaviour, appearance, intelligence etc. and then wonder why they don't get respect in return.

A positive thing that I see amongst youngsters far more than in older generations, is friends/peers calling out and correcting poor attitude/behaviour amongst their party.

 

[Towers]

This is the sort of attitude towards younger people that breeds their "lack of respect" towards others. Overall, the teenagers behaving badly only represent a minority of their age group. Yet (some) people paint the entire generation in a negative light, criticising almost every aspect of their behaviour, appearance, intelligence etc. and then wonder why they don't get respect in return.

A positive thing that I see amongst youngsters far more than in older generations, is friends/peers calling out and correcting poor attitude/behaviour amongst their party.

I disagree; I didn’t state that this was typical of an entire generation, but it very much is typical of the instances which occur frequently on public transport, in my experience. My experience also suggests that in the overwhelming majority of cases nobody intervenes or says a word, so unless the offending individuals are mind readers the thoughts of those around them are most definitely not the excuse for their attitude! The gradual crumble and decline of society is very much apparent around us all, the causes are myriad but it certainly isn’t all down to older generations quietly huffing!

The post to which you refer was in fact offering the thought that, rather than this sort of behaviour being bourne out of deliberate disregard for others as had been suggested, the reason for a lot of it is because those concerned have grown up in surroundings which simply haven’t duly equipped them to cope with society - very arguably that isn’t their own fault, but that of various other influences over which they themselves typically have little control. If you read and consider it fully it very definitely isn’t a simple “tut, yoofs” moan at all…

 

[Lewisham2221]

I disagree; I didn’t state that this was typical of an entire generation, but it very much is typical of the instances which occur frequently on public transport, in my experience. My experience also suggests that in the overwhelming majority of cases nobody intervenes or says a word, so unless the offending individuals are mind readers the thoughts of those around them are most definitely not the excuse for their attitude! The gradual crumble and decline of society is very much apparent around us all, the causes are myriad but it certainly isn’t all down to older generations quietly huffing!

The post to which you refer was in fact offering the thought that, rather than this sort of behaviour being bourne out of deliberate disregard for others as had been suggested, the reason for a lot of it is because those concerned have grown up in surroundings which simply haven’t duly equipped them to cope with society - very arguably that isn’t their own fault, but that of various other influences over which they themselves typically have little control. If you read and consider it fully it very definitely isn’t a simple “tut, yoofs” moan at all…

Yep, re-read it four times. Still can't interpret it as anything other than a disparaging criticism of an entire generation.

Re: the bit in bold
They've grown up in surroundings where seemingly everything they choose to do is criticised and picked apart by (some) adults. How they speak, if they speak, the subject of what they speak about. Their intelligence, and attention span. Their music taste. How they dress. What they eat and drink. Being told that the videos they watch online are "utter bilge", their music choice is "awful", their conversation resembles "a parody sketch show" and being likened to "poorly behaved dogs from sink estates". Is it any wonder that some of them just behave however they wish, when they expect that they'll be criticised whatever they do or however they behave.