Quiet Zones?

[Failed Unit]

This is what I was getting at. I don't expect a parent to dash out of the carriage like the Flash when their child starts crying but if they can't stop the crying within a minute or so it would be fair to take the child out of the quiet zone.

But that is my point, I would do that in ANY coach and have spent a lot of time next to HST power cars as a result!

Also, some people are commenting about people should expect trains to be full in peak hours, yes they should but when inter-city peaks are pretty much all day Friday, most of Sunday then it can be hard to avoid them. I am sure the 1000 kings cross - Scotland service is much busier than the 1700 kings cross - Scotland service. May trains around Christmas to Scotland are fully booked. (and probably so on great western as well)

 

[All Line Rover]

But that is my point, I would do that in ANY coach and have spent a lot of time next to HST power cars as a result!

Also, some people are commenting about people should expect trains to be full in peak hours, yes they should but when inter-city peaks are pretty much all day Friday, most of Sunday then it can be hard to avoid them. I am sure the 1000 kings cross - Scotland service is much busier than the 1700 kings cross - Scotland service. May trains around Christmas to Scotland are fully booked. (and probably so on great western as well)

If a mother is travelling with her baby, then she requires ONE seat (babies aren't entitled to one - they can sit on their mother's lap). It is rare for any train to have ABSOLUTELY NO seats available during sensible hours (at least around here, in Virgin Trains land). If, in the very rare case (during sensible hours), no seats were available, I am sure that anyone with a bit of decency would give up their seat for the mother with her child.

"Sensible hours" means: NOT DURING THE FRIDAY PEAK!

I'm not saying that I'd always complain. I'd take into consideration whether there were seats available in the rest of the train. But only once in my entire life have I been on a Pendolino where absolutely no seats were available.

 

[WestCoast]

It is rare for any train to have ABSOLUTELY NO seats available during rush hour (at least around here, in Virgin Trains land)

I'm not sure about that, I have seen it loads of times. In Virgin territory, Pendos out of Euston leave with every seat occupied in standard class on Friday rush hour.

On suburban and commuter services (with no quiet zones), it is very common in the rush hour....

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm not sure about that, I have seen it loads of times. In Virgin territory, Pendos out of Euston leave with every seat occupied in standard class on Friday rush hour.

On suburban and commuter services (with no quiet zones), it is very common in the rush hour....

Suburban and commuter services are almost always full, but as you say, they don't have Quiet Zones!

I admit that Standard Class is ALWAYS full on VT trains out of Euston during the Friday rush hour, but I ALWAYS avoid it. That's why - on my travels - Standard Class is almost never full. Why people don't wait until 9pm when leaving London bewilders me. You get a much cheaper ticket, can use some of that money to get a nice meal in London, and then get a quieter and more pleasant journey home.

 

[WestCoast]

I admit that Standard Class is ALWAYS full on VT trains out of Euston during the Friday rush hour, but I ALWAYS avoid it. That's why - on my travels - Standard Class is almost never full. Why people don't wait until 9pm when leaving London bewilders me. You get a much cheaper ticket, can use some of that money to get a nice meal in London, and then get a quieter and more pleasant journey home.

Short-distance commuters are likely to use LM, Virgin travellers have probably been working all week in the city and want to get home..

Plus, there is chance to get on the declassified Pendo extra service to Crewe and Manchester!

An an aside - where is Virgin Trains land that you mention? That stretches from Glasgow to London! I suppose Cheshire doesn't have a main local TOC to identify with - LM and Northern being the closest.

 

[All Line Rover]

Short-distance commuters are likely to use LM, Virgin travellers have probably been working all week in the city and want to get home..

Plus, there is chance to get on the declassified Pendo extra service to Crewe and Manchester!

An an aside - where is Virgin Trains land that you mention? That stretches from Glasgow to London! I suppose Cheshire doesn't have a main local TOC to identify with - LM and Northern being the closest.

I class "Virgin Trains Land" as being Manchester, Crewe and Chester. Perhaps stations up to and including Preston. Virgin run the majority of stations around here too. They only have an hourly (sometimes two-hourly) service to Scotland (and Liverpool), so I wouldn't say that Virgin have a large presence there.

 

[WestCoast]

I class "Virgin Trains Land" as being Manchester, Crewe and Chester. Perhaps stations up to and including Preston. Virgin run the majority of stations around here too. They only have an hourly (sometimes two-hourly) service to Scotland (and Liverpool), so I wouldn't say that Virgin have a large presence there.

Oh right, I'd include the West Midlands in that though since there is a 20mins frequency from New Street to Euston, plus the service up to Scotland has two trains every hour for most of the day (Birmingham and Euston to Scotland services). However, I'd say Chester was ATW and Manchester was Northern.

Getting back on topic, what non-intercity TOCs have Quiet Zones?

We've covered SWT and LM Cross-City. I'd also mention c2c, although it is useless!

 

[phil35]

It's not just that, it's all 220/1/2 derivatives. I frequently mentally start punching myself in the head with frustration when trying to send a text or browse the internet via my phone on these trains. Going up the MML on a Meridian yields naff all, yet the same route in a Mark 1 or 2 and I can use my phone reasonably well.

Why is this anyway? For as long as I can remember (through three different mobile operators) when travelling on a XC / Virgin Voyager my signal depletes incredibly to the point where I have no service for 90-95% of the entire journey. I take the same route on a different TOC (Chiltern/Northern for example) and my signal is fine. What is it about the Voyagers (and the other types that you mentioned) that interfere with mobile signal?

 

[Failed Unit]

What do you consider the Friday peak? It is ALL DAY on Anglo-Scottish routes it is not unreasonable for a family to travel at 10am! Nor is it unreasonable to buy an under 5 a ticket. I do as I don't want them on my lap for nearly 5 hours!

 

[WestCoast]

What do you consider the Friday peak? It is ALL DAY on Anglo-Scottish routes it is not unreasonable for a family to travel at 10am! Nor is it unreasonable to buy an under 5 a ticket. I do as I don't want them on my lap for nearly 5 hours!

The Friday peak in intercity terms is probably most of the day until about 8ish in the evening. Although, Virgin's services out of Euston don't start getting very busy until the afternoon.

The whole question of under 5s tickets is interesting. I know of a number of older people, who would expect a child of that age to be placed on a parent's knee, regardless of whether a ticket was purchased or not. That's not my view, but I know some people of the older generation ("children should be seen and not heard" types) who would think that on a full and standing train.

 

[RichmondCommu]

You really believe this?

Why do parents feel that they have the right to inflict their noisy children (not just babies) on the rest of us? The number of times my journey has been disturbed by a family or crying baby in the so-called quiet carriage - even in first class - is depressing. Some people simply have no consideration for others.

Yes, i really do believe this. If disturbances by families / and or babies in the quiet carriage make you feel depressed i can only suggest that you take a trip to the real world. Families travelling in first class; my goodness what were they thinking of? Quick someone, call the BTP. One can only assume that you have never taken a long distance flight.
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Suburban and commuter services are almost always full, but as you say, they don't have Quiet Zones!

I admit that Standard Class is ALWAYS full on VT trains out of Euston during the Friday rush hour, but I ALWAYS avoid it. That's why - on my travels - Standard Class is almost never full. Why people don't wait until 9pm when leaving London bewilders me. You get a much cheaper ticket, can use some of that money to get a nice meal in London, and then get a quieter and more pleasant journey home.

Stand by for a shock; not all the passengers on VT are single adolescent males. My family and I live in London but once a month travel up to Lancashire to visit my in-laws on a Friday night to visit for the weekend. Just because you can avoid travelling on an early evening train please don't start suggesting that everyone else should do the same.
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Pot, kettle and the colour black springs to mind here.

Exactly!
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I have to agree. It's not like the rules of the quiet zone are made up arbitrarily and on the spot. A crying baby is excessive noise just like a mobile phone call, personal stereos, shouting, playing audio through speakers and even snoring.
It's the balance of probabilities: how likely is the child to cry given the journey time? In addition if they go into the vestibule then nobody is going to take their seat. I can understand parents wanting peace in the quiet zone and as long as they are reasonably quiet all is good.

Evolution has made our brains create stress hormones (cortisol?) when there is a crying baby as well as making us [as a species] happy when we see a child. It's the same principle as why a parent would sacrifice themselves for their child.
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IIRC the quiet zone was introduced for passengers who wanted to enjoy their journey with less stress than a normal carriage.

For the noise who knows what's happened previously in the day? For all you know someone could be sitting in the quiet zone after a long day and feels depressed. A crying baby could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I like to relax on my journey, look out the window at the scenery and basically wind down, especially if it's an early morning or after a long day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
IIRC the quiet zone was introduced for passengers who wanted to enjoy their journey with less stress than a normal carriage.

For the noise who knows what's happened previously in the day? For all you know someone could be sitting in the quiet zone after a long day and feels depressed. A crying baby could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I like to relax on my journey, look out the window at the scenery and basically wind down, especially if it's an early morning or after a long day.

In all fairness if an individual has got themselves into such a state that a crying baby could send them over the "edge" then they really need to be in hospital. For their own good they need to be removed from mainstream society until they have made a full recovery. I dread to think what would happen if they were on a flight. The policy of care in the community has let the public down in my view.
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If a mother is travelling with her baby, then she requires ONE seat (babies aren't entitled to one - they can sit on their mother's lap). It is rare for any train to have ABSOLUTELY NO seats available during sensible hours (at least around here, in Virgin Trains land). If, in the very rare case (during sensible hours), no seats were available, I am sure that anyone with a bit of decency would give up their seat for the mother with her child.

"Sensible hours" means: NOT DURING THE FRIDAY PEAK!

I'm not saying that I'd always complain. I'd take into consideration whether there were seats available in the rest of the train. But only once in my entire life have I been on a Pendolino where absolutely no seats were available.

Just out of interest how long did it take you to count them?
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What a self important, haughty, big headed so and so! Everyone is entitled to use their mobile phone (except in the Quiet Coach).

The only time I told someone to shut up was on a South West Train from Waterloo. He was talking at the top of his voice to his "ex girlfriend" and swearing constantly. Everyone could hear him! Some people...

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones anyone?

 

[amcluesent]

'K' on EC is a bit dubious as a 'quiet coach' when you have the staff in the food-prep area creating a hubbub.

 

[Hydro]

you have the staff in the food-prep area creating a hubbub.

Is that on the new menu?

 

[All Line Rover]

Stand by for a shock; not all the passengers on VT are single adolescent males. My family and I live in London but once a month travel up to Lancashire to visit my in-laws on a Friday night to visit for the weekend. Just because you can avoid travelling on an early evening train please don't start suggesting that everyone else should do the same.

We frequently travel to London as a family for a few days, either for "a mini holiday" or when dad has his courses in posh hotels.

We don't mind waiting for the 21:07 train. For a start, it's only a difference of 2 hours compared to the (absolutely rammed and very expensive) 19:10 train, which is a Voyager. We simply go to Westfield or somewhere like that, have a nice meal costing less than £30, then go back to Euston and take the 21:07 home. Even with the £30 meal, we've saved an awful lot of money compared to buying a ticket for the 19:10. We are full, and get a much quieter train with plenty of available seats (which is a Pendolino). All in all it makes train travel much more appealing compared to being forced to sit next to a fat guy in Standard Class in a packed carriage.

I don't understand why other people don't do this, but having said that, I don't want them to do this. Leave the 21:07 quiet for us lot please!

To ensure that I don't annoy people about this, I don't know how busy the London to Glasgow (or London to Preston) route gets during peak hours. I only travel during the very early morning or late evening between Preston and Glasgow, which is always quieter than Preston to London, and I always travel First Class, not Standard Class. If I was on a very packed Virgin train (or XC) train, which was so packed that you can't even move into the next carraige, I would not expect the Quiet Coach to be as quiet as usual (which includes crying babies). Once a train is so packed that I'm forced to sit next to someone else in Standard Class, the pleasantness of my journey has been ruined - some extra noise won't make any difference. I would still expect people to be reasonably quiet (i.e. not making mobile phone calls at the top of their voice), but I wouldn't expect total silence. Hopefully this will clear things up!

 

[WelshBluebird]

I don't understand why other people don't do this

Maybe they have other connecting services that means waiting 2 hours longer just is not feasible?
Maybe they have other commitments / things they have to be doing?
Maybe they are meeting someone at their destination at a certain time?
Etc etc.

 

[cuccir]

IMO the quiet coach experience could be clarified/improved by the following suggestions (one nicked from up the thread):

1. No tables in the quiet coach; this reduces the likelihood of families and large groups to accidentally book in them. Could be off-set by having a carriage with more tables in, or just seen as a happy way to boost capacity.

2. Explicitly warn people booking online that they have chosen to book in the quiet coach, and explain what this means!

3. Have a note added to the signs in quiet coaches along the lines of 'where the train is full or near capacity, the regulations of the quiet coach will no longer be enforced'. For me, the existence of a quiet coach is an added luxury for journeys that are relatively empty: if it's busy, you have to accept noise!

Of course, a portion of people of all types will ignore/refuse to accept the quiet coach and cause of problem there. But I imagine the vast majority of problems which emerge in it come from different people having their own definitions of 'quiet' and from groups being booked unknowingly into the coach. I was sat next to a grumpy man the other day in an East Coast quiet coach who moaned at a group of women who were chatting at the table in front of us; they were probably louder than normal but not shouting - for me, I don't see the problem, but everyone brings their own expectations to what 'quiet' will get them. As I pointed out to the chap I was sitting next to, its the 'quiet coach' not the 'silent coach'!

 

[Eng274]

I seem to be in the minority here, in that I have never had a bad experience in the quiet coach of a train (and more often than not, I try to book a seat there).

I have used VT, EC and XC's quiet coaches during a variety of busy/quiet periods. even on a rammed EC service leaving Peterborough with standing passengers the 'quiet' motif was well adhered to.

I was even lucky to have the quiet coach to myself on a late evening VT service from Birmingham to Edinburgh, which after a few jars prior to boarding was mostly spent fast asleep!

Given the huge spectrum of 'quiet' classifications by the public, I wonder if anyone has written a complaint to VT about the noisy crockery in a pendolino's first class quiet coach..?

 

[Greenback]

IMO the quiet coach experience could be clarified/improved by the following suggestions (one nicked from up the thread):

1. No tables in the quiet coach; this reduces the likelihood of families and large groups to accidentally book in them. Could be off-set by having a carriage with more tables in, or just seen as a happy way to boost capacity.

2. Explicitly warn people booking online that they have chosen to book in the quiet coach, and explain what this means!

3. Have a note added to the signs in quiet coaches along the lines of 'where the train is full or near capacity, the regulations of the quiet coach will no longer be enforced'. For me, the existence of a quiet coach is an added luxury for journeys that are relatively empty: if it's busy, you have to accept noise!

I like the first two ideas! not so sure about the third, though - it's obviously going to be a bit noisier if the coach is full, but I don't see why the principle of a quiet coach should be abandoned quite so easily!

 

[WestCoast]

Does anyone remember the family coaches that Virgin implemented in coach C of the Pendolinos a few years ago? It was during a summer holiday and was enforced on selected services. The idea seems to have been abandoned.

I've seen them used abroad (including mini play areas!)

 

[SS4]

Does anyone remember the family coaches that Virgin implemented in coach C of the Pendolinos a few years ago? It was during a summer holiday and was enforced on selected services. The idea seems to have been abandoned.

I've seen them used abroad (including mini play areas!)

Isn't the shop in coach C? Seems very unusual to have both in the same coach. Would like to see it though

 

[WestCoast]

Isn't the shop in coach C? Seems very unusual to have both in the same coach. Would like to see it though

IIRC, it was coach C, the one with the shop.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

FGW had one on both HSTs and Adelantes I think, can't remember which coach though...

 

[Failed Unit]

FGW had one on both HSTs and Adelantes I think, can't remember which coach though...

It was coach E of the HSTs. All tables if I recall, but now FGW are mainly airline it won't really work as well.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Didn't FGW say that families 'could sit across from each other' (or something along those lines) when quizzed about that very issue?!

 

[WestCoast]

Didn't FGW say that families 'could sit across from each other' (or something along those lines) when quizzed about that very issue?!

I suppose that's what you have to do on an aircraft (hence the term airline!). Does nothing to market the train for families though.

 

[SS4]

I suppose that's what you have to do on an aircraft (hence the term airline!). Does nothing to market the train for families though.

Speaking of airlines didn't Quantas (or some airline) say they were introducing "adult only" flights? If so at least families are (yet) forbidden from certain trains

 

[WestCoast]

Speaking of airlines didn't Quantas (or some airline) say they were introducing "adult only" flights? If so at least families are (yet) forbidden from certain trains

Not quite, it was a Micheal O'Leary stunt - see HERE and notice the date on the article.

 

[SS4]

Not quite, it was a Micheal O'Leary stunt - see HERE and notice the date on the article.

That would make sense, I think I was getting confused with the Quantas court case over a screaming child deafening someone Here

To try and get this topic back on track I have to admit that most of the time they do live up to their reputation as being nice and quiet and I feel loud when texting (my phone has a soft keyboard)

 

[RichmondCommu]

We frequently travel to London as a family for a few days, either for "a mini holiday" or when dad has his courses in posh hotels.

We don't mind waiting for the 21:07 train. For a start, it's only a difference of 2 hours compared to the (absolutely rammed and very expensive) 19:10 train, which is a Voyager. We simply go to Westfield or somewhere like that, have a nice meal costing less than £30, then go back to Euston and take the 21:07 home. Even with the £30 meal, we've saved an awful lot of money compared to buying a ticket for the 19:10. We are full, and get a much quieter train with plenty of available seats (which is a Pendolino). All in all it makes train travel much more appealing compared to being forced to sit next to a fat guy in Standard Class in a packed carriage.

I don't understand why other people don't do this, but having said that, I don't want them to do this. Leave the 21:07 quiet for us lot please!

To ensure that I don't annoy people about this, I don't know how busy the London to Glasgow (or London to Preston) route gets during peak hours. I only travel during the very early morning or late evening between Preston and Glasgow, which is always quieter than Preston to London, and I always travel First Class, not Standard Class. If I was on a very packed Virgin train (or XC) train, which was so packed that you can't even move into the next carraige, I would not expect the Quiet Coach to be as quiet as usual (which includes crying babies). Once a train is so packed that I'm forced to sit next to someone else in Standard Class, the pleasantness of my journey has been ruined - some extra noise won't make any difference. I would still expect people to be reasonably quiet (i.e. not making mobile phone calls at the top of their voice), but I wouldn't expect total silence. Hopefully this will clear things up!

In all fairness the vast majority of people heading out of London on Friday are either:

1. People who work in London during the week but head home at weekends.

2. Londoners heading to the provinces for the weekend to visit friends and family (i.e. me!)

3. People who commute into London on a daily basis.

In all honesty leaving London at 21.00 is not going to be of any use to those groups!

 

[martinsh]

my personal gripe about Quiet Coaches is the amount of noise created by needless announcements by the on-train staff ! Can't they have some sort of reduced announcements for that coach which just says the name of the approaching station ?