Questions for Freight Drivers

[Toottoot]

I have a few questions regarding freight driving and I was hoping I could hear from a few drivers so I can get a good understanding of the role.

I hope some answers will be forthcoming.

1) as silly as this sounds, when sat in the cab on a journey what does a driver actually do?

I have no exposure to the rail other than getting on to a train and getting off at my destination so my question is a serious one.

2) are you satisfied with your work? Would you encourage others to pursue a career in freight driving?

I'm looking at a transition from a career entirely unrelated to driving, and I don't want to end up in a situation where I hate my job. I understand that everybody is different, but how do you feel about your job?

3) what kind of career progression do you expect to attain in your career? Once a driver always a driver? Or is it common for drivers to climb the ranks as it were?

4) is it important to have an in depth knowledge of the rail before starting out? I'm not a keen train enthusiast. Do I need to be one?

5) are there perks for freight drivers too? Or are the perks restricted to passenger carrying companies?

6) how much responsibility does the driver have for the load? Is the driver responsible for checking the freight's serviceability and safety? Or is it a case of get on the train and drive it, then get out the other end and hand it over to someone else?

7) what's does an average shift involve?

I understand that this information may be dispersed within the forum, but it must be tucked away as I have been looking for hours and most of it's about selection processes and companies that are recruiting.

Thanks

 

[TDK]

I have a few questions regarding freight driving and I was hoping I could hear from a few drivers so I can get a good understanding of the role.

I hope some answers will be forthcoming.

1) as silly as this sounds, when sat in the cab on a journey what does a driver actually do?

I have no exposure to the rail other than getting on to a train and getting off at my destination so my question is a serious one.

2) are you satisfied with your work? Would you encourage others to pursue a career in freight driving?

I'm looking at a transition from a career entirely unrelated to driving, and I don't want to end up in a situation where I hate my job. I understand that everybody is different, but how do you feel about your job?

3) what kind of career progression do you expect to attain in your career? Once a driver always a driver? Or is it common for drivers to climb the ranks as it were?

4) is it important to have an in depth knowledge of the rail before starting out? I'm not a keen train enthusiast. Do I need to be one?

5) are there perks for freight drivers too? Or are the perks restricted to passenger carrying companies?

6) how much responsibility does the driver have for the load? Is the driver responsible for checking the freight's serviceability and safety? Or is it a case of get on the train and drive it, then get out the other end and hand it over to someone else?

7) what's does an average shift involve?

I understand that this information may be dispersed within the forum, but it must be tucked away as I have been looking for hours and most of it's about selection processes and companies that are recruiting.

Thanks

Sorry tootoot but have you not applied for DRS as a freight driver? Maybe this question should have been asked before applying?

I am not a freight driver so cannot answer any of your questions but driving trains is quite generic except that the fact is that passenger driving is hell of a lot easier with shifts and actual hard work.

 

[GB]

3) what kind of career progression do you expect to attain in your career? Once a driver always a driver? Or is it common for drivers to climb the ranks as it were?

Once your driving there isn't much more you can go driving wise other than becoming a mentor driver if your record is good enough or a driver manager.

4) is it important to have an in depth knowledge of the rail before starting out? I'm not a keen train enthusiast. Do I need to be one?

You do not need in depth knowledge or be a train entusiast before starting out. You will need a general understanding of what goes on though.


6) how much responsibility does the driver have for the load? Is the driver responsible for checking the freight's serviceability and safety? Or is it a case of get on the train and drive it, then get out the other end and hand it over to someone else?

Depends on the company and area. Most of our trains are prepared by groundstaff but there are occassions where drivers prepare their own trains.
If you are such driver you have responsibilty for the load (within reason) for the entire journey, even if you are relieved midway through.

see above

 

[Toottoot]

Thanks GB

 

[Beveridges]

Can't answer most of your questions as I'm a Maintenance Depot Driver which is slightly different to freight driving in a few ways.

Sorry tootoot but have you not applied for DRS as a freight driver? Maybe this question should have been asked before applying?

What if he asked this question, waited for suitable answers, then applied and missed the closing date?? What does it matter that hes applying then asking questions later ? Its not like hes accepted a job offer

 

[TDK]

What if he asked this question, waited for suitable answers, then applied and missed the closing date?? What does it matter that hes applying then asking questions later ? Its not like hes accepted a job offer

I don't mean ask the company the question, if I was going to go for a job I would want to know what was involved before applying other than apply for a job because it is something to do with trains.

If he passes the tests, passes the interview and then decides it's not for him it may effect someone else's chance.

 

[E&W Lucas]

4) is it important to have an in depth knowledge of the rail before starting out? I'm not a keen train enthusiast. Do I need to be one?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The training process, is designed for people with no prior industry experience or knowledge, whatsoever.

I'm not a freight driver either, but it's not massively different to passenger, so generic information already posted on here will give you the idea.


Be aware that freight work is much less regular. With passenger, your rest days are known long in advance; this may not be the case with freight, so managing your wider life, will be a lot more difficult. Hours can be more anti social too.

 

[Beveridges]

Being a keen enthusiast can also work against you and cause you to fail an Interview!

The above statement is generic to all railway jobs.

I have lied in my Interviews and said that I'm not an trainspotter when asked. Once you've actually got the job though you don't have to hide it anymore. But just keep it to yourself in the Interview. Being a trainspotter never gives you any extra points, so why even mention it.

 

[Toottoot]

I'm asking because I want to have a good understanding of the lesser considered aspects of the job.

I was embarrassed during my first interview when I was asked 'what does a train driver actually do?' And I struggled to avoid saying 'he drives a train.'

I'm grateful for all your responses but I didn't think it would be so difficult to research a job.

I know train drivers drive trains, I know the hours are long and unsociable. It's the lesser known aspects I'd like some opinions on.

For example; I'm a soldier. People 'know' what soldiers do, but I could give them a true explanation of life as a squaddie and it might put some people off, or being them further in to the fold

 

[Legzr1]

1) as silly as this sounds, when sat in the cab on a journey what does a driver actually do?

As daft as it sounds, when everything is going to plan, a driver 'does' very little bar keeping an eye on speed and signal aspects / correct routing.
Gradients and track conditions need a little more thought.

It's when things go wrong a freight driver earns his money and training counts - pointless listing all scenarios as there are quite a few!

2) are you satisfied with your work? Would you encourage others to pursue a career in freight driving?

Depends on the day you ask!

At times it's (almost!!) a pleasure being at work - seeing the sun come up on a bright Spring morning, signallers getting the barriers down in good time and arriving at the destination at booked time.

A month later, you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with crap NRN reception / no GSMR with loss of power or unsolicited brake application on a train almost half a mile in length. Oh, and here comes another thunderstorm...

Would I encourage others into the grade?
Well, it's one of the few places left where you're left alone and trusted to do the job come what may and the pay is (relatively) excellent - even the poorer FOC's top £40K - some FOC's equal the highest TOC wages with like-for-like hours.
£62k+ is on offer in some places for a 41 hour week - that's guaranteed for the length of the yearly contract - naturally, RDW and O/T is paid over and above this but then you get into the work / life balance arguments!

I'm looking at a transition from a career entirely unrelated to driving, and I don't want to end up in a situation where I hate my job. I understand that everybody is different, but how do you feel about your job?

Indeed everyone is different - personally I hate the 0200 starts (max 10 hour turns at our place with start times between 00:00 and 04:00) whereas others love the idea of finishing before lunch and having the rest of the day to themselves.
You really have to experience it for yourself.

It's worth mentioning that some of the larger FOC depots allow mutual swapping of shifts - some lads I know have worked backshift for 20 years, some haven't started a shift AFTER 05:00 for 15 years!

Point is, there are options.

3) what kind of career progression do you expect to attain in your career? Once a driver always a driver? Or is it common for drivers to climb the ranks as it were?

(Old fart alert...)

When I first started, driving WAS the pinnacle of the railway career - things have changed since everything was sold off.
Gone are the days of traction trainee followed by years of secondman then passed-man eventually attaining bottom link driving.

These days it's 'click a link on the interwebby, fill in form then fully trained and paid driver inside 20 months' !!

There are options for moving 'up' in the bigger FOCs - DBS regularly offer training for drivers to move up to minders, trainers then onto PM's / APM's.

GBRf recently asked all staff to fill in forms if they were interested in any positions (from trainee groundstaff all the way to assistant MD) - I suspect that is a relatively easy thing to do with a smaller FOC.

4) is it important to have an in depth knowledge of the rail before starting out? I'm not a keen train enthusiast. Do I need to be one?

Absolutely not.

5) are there perks for freight drivers too? Or are the perks restricted to passenger carrying companies?

Simple answer: If perks / free travel / concessions are important, stick to TOC's.

DBS offer nothing (which is surprising considering the passenger companies they operate).

GBRf - £10/year gets you through the tunnel for a quid turning up on the day - 75% off advanced bookings.

Hardly the sort of offers to sway you from one company to another but (just) better than nowt!

6) how much responsibility does the driver have for the load? Is the driver responsible for checking the freight's serviceability and safety? Or is it a case of get on the train and drive it, then get out the other end and hand it over to someone else?

Once you've left a depot / siding, ultimate responsibility lays with the driver.

Some FOC's operate driver only train prep - again, it's all down to a driver to ready the train for safe passage.

Things change for certain types of wagon / cargo - a wagon examiner then has responsibility before train departure.

However, in general it's groundstaff that prep a train - once underway it's down to the driver to deal with anything that occurs.

7) what's does an average shift involve?

No such thing!

FOC's vary from 10 mile tripping into / out of power stations running on green signals and TCB and step on / step off all the way to 12 hour engineering turns where (almost) anything goes - degraded working at low speed disregarding all signals with TPWS isolated - this is another area where you earn your money and need to be on top form.


I noticed reference to planning restdays in this thread - 25 years on the job at a few different depots and different FOCs and one thing remains - a link is always supplied and whilst the start/finish times might vary (some FOC's are worse than others - read the T&C's !!) the restday pattern is constant.
There are rumours that some FOC's vary the restdays on a whim with little notice - avoid them like the plague!

FLHH - not going to comment as I'm not sure how they work it all out!

The big players might change links every 6 months depending on work content / establishment but it's always done with agreement and any change to RD's in the link are honoured.

Basically, nothing to worry about.

 

[Toottoot]

Thank you legzr1 that was very helpful info.

 

[TOCDriver]

I have alot of respect for our freight collegues. It can be exhausting and mentally challenging work when things go t!ts up . They have a massive responsibility in terms of getting hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of cargo to its destination on time as well as not getting in the way of the regular traffic on their route. Their route knowledge over long distances is second to none and they need to know much more additional stuff than a passenger driver does in terms of the 'pink pages' within the rule book. Yup, it's a very responsible job and I take my hat off to them - they really do deserve their pay, that's for sure.

 

[Dave1987]

Although driving for a FOC is appealing due to the skill involved, I would say the benefits of working for a TOC i.e. the travel concessions, are much better and save you a lot of money. Also it would seem the job security is far greater with a TOC than a FOC.

 

[Beveridges]

Couldn't care about travel concessions much. It's the shifts that put me off.

 

[Dave1987]

Couldn't care about travel concessions much. It's the shifts that put me off.

That's fair enough but when I look at the money I have saved through my partner and I having staff travel cards and the ATOC priv card, it adds up to quite a lot. I don't think it's worth going to a FOC when I think that I would lose those travel perks, freight doesn't seem to be anywhere near as secure as passenger work and at a TOC you always end up back at your Home Depot at the end of your shift, TOCs definately look a better place to be in my opinion. Your preferences are clearly different but that is up to you.

 

[Toottoot]

I think that it would suit me, and your comments so far have only convinced me further.

I enjoy riding motorbikes, driving cars and pretty much anything you can 'have a go on' from push bikes to parachutes, canoes to roller skates.

Do you get the same enjoyment out of driving a train as you may do riding bikes or driving faster cars? Again I know this is subjective question but I imagine watching the sunrise whilst driving on a particularly pleasant section of rail would be quite a nice experience.

 

[TOCDriver]

That's fair enough but when I look at the money I have saved through my partner and I having staff travel cards and the ATOC priv card, it adds up to quite a lot. I don't think it's worth going to a FOC when I think that I would lose those travel perks, freight doesn't seem to be anywhere near as secure as passenger work and at a TOC you always end up back at your Home Depot at the end of your shift, TOCs definately look a better place to be in my opinion. Your preferences are clearly different but that is up to you.

At the end of the day, it depends on you. Some people like the variation of work with freight and also the challenge that it brings. Not good if you're a family man though, that's for sure
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think that it would suit me, and your comments so far have only convinced me further.

I enjoy riding motorbikes, driving cars and pretty much anything you can 'have a go on' from push bikes to parachutes, canoes to roller skates.

Do you get the same enjoyment out of driving a train as you may do riding bikes or driving faster cars? Again I know this is subjective question but I imagine watching the sunrise whilst driving on a particularly pleasant section of rail would be quite a nice experience.

I get a lot of satisfaction of controlling my train as efficiently as I can i.e keeping to the timetable by means of good breaking and getting it up to line speed as quickly as possible when having clear aspects between stations. And a word of warning - there is no time to enjoy the scenery, no matter what the weather, if you're to be in proper control of your train. You stay focussed on the road ahead, AT ALL TIMES! That's how SPAD's occur

 

[Beveridges]

And a word of warning - there is no time to enjoy the scenery, no matter what the weather, if you're to be in proper control of your train. You stay focussed on the road ahead, AT ALL TIMES!

A bit like driving a car then in this respect, you can't really enjoy the scenery too much, but you can't help taking notice of good scenery while concentrating on being in control of the car, which can still make it a better drive.

 

[TOCDriver]

A bit like driving a car then in this respect, you can't really enjoy the scenery too much, but you can't help taking notice of good scenery in the "background" while concentrating on being in control of the car, which can make it a better drive.

You stay focussed on the road ahead when driving a train .. period. As you know, you can bring a car under control much, much quicker than you can a train at 75 mph. if you start enjoying the scenery too much, you can quite easily forget you passed that double yellow 200 yards back and you arrive at the single yellow much, much too fast and then go on to SPAD.

 

[Dave1987]

At the end of the day, it depends on you. Some people like the variation of work with freight and also the challenge that it brings. Not good if you're a family man though, that's for sure

Indeed it does depend on the person. I make good use of my TOC privileges.

 

[TOCDriver]

Indeed it does depend on the person. I make good use of my TOC privileges.

I don't make use of mine as often as i should. I have a very nice 3 year old Focus RS which I enjoy driving much too much!

 

[Beveridges]

I don't make too much use of mine, as my free pass is Northern only and I don't like all-stops 142's!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As you know, you can bring a car under control much, much quicker than you can a train at 75 mph. if you start enjoying the scenery too much, you can quite easily forget you passed that double yellow 200 yards back and you arrive at the single yellow much, much too fast and then go on to SPAD.

I don't see how it requires you to look away from the scenery any more than a car if you are getting green signals (which is most of the time really on any route I have seen) and are on a very familiar route.

 

[Toottoot]

Are drivers controlled by drivers hours in the same manner as road haul drivers? How often do you stop for a break? What do you do if you need to use the bathroom?

 

[Pacerpilot]

What do you do if you need to use the bathroom?

Having been used to having a toilet on board as a passenger driver, I asked that when I came across to the freight. "Immodium and wet wipes, my dear boy" was the answer I got.

 

[Dave1987]

Are drivers controlled by drivers hours in the same manner as road haul drivers? How often do you stop for a break? What do you do if you need to use the bathroom?

I don't know how it works for freight drivers but for TOC drivers you work to a schedule card referred to as a "Sheila". This has all your allocated workings for the day including your break referred to as a PNB or "personal needs break". But no unlike road haul drivers you don't just stop your train where you are when your Sheila says its your PNB time. You have to get to wherever your booked location for your PNB is unless this is changed by the DTM in control. With regards to the toilet you hold it in until you have 5 mins to nip to the toilet during a change of ends or any time you have a couple of spare mins.

 

[Pacerpilot]

We start the day with a similar schedule card/diagram but whether it actually bears any resemblance to what actually happens once the wheels are turning is another matter.

 

[Rugd1022]

We start the day with a similar schedule card/diagram but whether it actually bears any resemblance to what actually happens once the wheels are turning is another matter.

^This!^

Our diagrams give us a booking on and booking off time with running times and PNBs in between, but most of the time we end up having our breaks in the cab as there are no proper facilities in many of the places we work to / from. We're supposed to have a break away from the cab where we can eat, drink, go to the khazi and wash our hands, but the reality is often very different. Ever noticed those Locozade bottles filled with yellow liquid beside certain signals...? I'll leave the rest to your imagination...

We do tend to 'rough it' on the freight side but I like it, you do get time to take in your surroundings under clear signals or when stationary, while still being in complete control of your train. With a clear road ahead I often open the side window and look back along my train as it snakes across the various junctions on the WCML or MML, it's one of those very satisfying little 'moments' we get from time to time.

We've had several blokes leave our depot for passenger companies only to regret it very soon after, with awful management regimes making them want to transfer back. I'm not saying all passenger companies have this but a lot of the chaps I come across on my travels tell me that the work itself is fine, but the attitude of 'them upstairs' leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Toottoot]

Are you glad you drive trains? Or do you wish yourself out of it?

 

[Legzr1]

I enjoy riding motorbikes, driving cars and pretty much anything you can 'have a go on' from push bikes to parachutes, canoes to roller skates.

Do you get the same enjoyment out of driving a train as you may do riding bikes or driving faster cars? Again I know this is subjective question but I imagine watching the sunrise whilst driving on a particularly pleasant section of rail would be quite a nice experience.

Whilst driving freight trains can be enjoyable at times (and as frustrating as is possible at other times!) it does not come close to the 'thrill' of high power / high speed machines and there's a fair argument to say it shouldn't!

Simply think of it as a (really good) means to an end.

I have a passion for bikes.
20 years ago, when wages were pitiful and I needed to work 60+ hours a week to afford a mortgage my choices were somewhat limited - 10 year old bikes with high mileage and questionable quality.

Now?

Fellow drivers have the pick of the crop - big bang R1's, ZX10's, Ducati Panigales etc etc.
Personally, I've gone from an 1198S to a BMW S1000 and recently moved onto an Aprilia RSV4 Factory.

This is where I get my 'kicks' both on road and track.

Driving trains doesn't even come close and is far, far more regulated but it provides the means to be able to afford the beasts - it's the bikes that provide the release.

Keep that in mind and freight driving can still offer 'rewards' although I'll admit it's far more appealing to some of my colleagues - it's a very rare occasion that I wake and actually look forward to going to work but that's because I'd rather be on my bike!


Breaks/Rest periods:

The bigger FOC's are inline with nationally negotiated standards - DBS are probably the best with various messrooms across the network and agreed use of TOC facilities at many stations.

Max shift length is 11 hours with a 45 min break (or 2X 30 or 3X 20) - on the majority of diagrams the breaks are actually far longer (if passing to X location for a return trip you might be diagrammed a 45 min break but you're normally there for 90 mins before booked departure).

Best not mention some of the 'up and coming zero-hour' FOC's - I have no experience of them but I've listened to the rumours (from good sources) and I'm not sure their management actually know what PNB or FB stands for...


As you've said, these are all subjective opinions - I'd rather be out on the mainline than 200 yds from the depot on some stinking unit and I'd rather be driving than sitting waiting for a train for 2 hours but one thing is beyond doubt - there has never been a better time (or more opportunity) to get on the footplate.

Sure, it has it's ups and downs.
At times, the frustration is almost unbearable but when the dust settles, your bank is credited with your wage and you've hit the part of the link where you only work three days in twenty I find it difficult to think of a better job.

As for 'looking at the scenery'.

Bear in mind most freight work is 60mph (75mph class 4) and it's a heavy load - setting off (even up a slight gradient) on green signals it feels as though you have time to read a chapter of a book!

I don't see (sic) the issue with having a look around whilst the train is accelerating from 19mph to 19.5mph running on clear aspects.
Just remember to snap into focus once you receive that aws for the temp. speed restriction or you get a single yellow on 3 aspect signalling.

Common sense really (although I understand it's not really that common nowadays ).

 

[TB93]

Totally agree with Legzr1.